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Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

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9 minutes ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

I voted Labour last time but will see what the Independent group come up with... :unsure:

They could promise to faithfully honour the 2017 Labour Party GE manifesto. It is, after all, what got them elected to Parliament.

 

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1 hour ago, GrizzlyDave said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/14/world/europe/volkswagen-ceo-nazi-slogan.html

BERLIN — Volkswagen’s chief executive has apologized for using a phrase that echoed a Nazi-era slogan, “Arbeit macht frei,” or “Work sets you free,” that was emblazoned on the gates of Auschwitz and other concentration camps, saying the connection did not occur to him at the time.

The German carmaker’s chief, Herbert Diess, repeatedly said, “Ebit macht frei” — referring to profits within the company’s divisions — when speaking on Tuesday to hundreds of managers at an internal company event after Volkswagen’s annual earnings news conference, German news media reported. Ebit is an acronym for “earnings before interest and taxes.”

:blink:

Extraordinary blunder, especially after this:

Quote

… 

I thought I knew the VW emissions scandal story quite well. But I’ve never seen it so well laid out as in this documentary, Hard NOx, one of a new investigative Netflix series from Alex Gibney about scandal and corruption in the business world...

He also sets Volkswagen in a historical context, going right back to Hitler and his people’s car, through the 60s counterculture of Beetles and Campers, to declining sales, and the intense pressure to sell more, at any cost, which is what a corporate culture permeated by fraud was born of.

It’s not unreasonable to bring Hitler in, given that he is actually part of the story, though perhaps the attorney Michael Melkersen is taking it a bit far when he says: “Obviously one cannot help but think back throughout history to another series of events involving people being gassed.” There was actually a proposal to test vehicle emissions on a human participant, but even VW thought it might not look good and opted for non human primates. Gas the monkeys instead.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2018/jan/27/dirty-money-review-netflix-alex-gibney-vw

A year old, but a great documentary:

https://www.netflix.com/gb/title/80118100

 

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32 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

They could promise to faithfully honour the 2017 Labour Party GE manifesto. It is, after all, what got them elected to Parliament.

 

Like the rest of the parties, I don't trust them and I have very little confidence in Corbyn now. 

Maybe the Independent group will be different... :unsure:

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I posted the BBC iplayer link to a 22 year old QT edition upthread featuring, Benn & Heath which has a lively discussion on Europe which could easily be a transcript from today -ish. :)

Here is another programme from 1997...

… poor picture quality...  but some of the comments! e.g. xenophobia 

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4 minutes ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

Like the rest of the parties, I don't trust them and I have very little confidence in Corbyn now. 

Maybe the Independent group will be different... :unsure:

All the exciting proposals are coming from the Left, including but not limited to a Citizen's Income, a Land Value Tax, the New Green Deal, Complexity Economics and MMT, a National Investment Bank, Lifetime Tenancies, a national program of general needs social housing.

And Corbyn's right not be fussed over Brexit. In the greater scheme of things it really isn't important.

 

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11 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

All the exciting proposals are coming from the Left, including but not limited to a Citizen's Income, a Land Value Tax, the New Green Deal, Complexity Economics and MMT, a National Investment Bank, Lifetime Tenancies, a national program of general needs social housing.

And Corbyn's right not be fussed over Brexit. In the greater scheme of things it really isn't important.

 

It is when all the exciting proposals can not be paid for. 

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When all else fails bring up Hitler? Except Germany learned from the war, brexiters still can't get over the death of Empire and continual sliding of UKs position in world, refusing to admit that their Brexit nonsense has made the UK a laughing stock.

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6 hours ago, zugzwang said:

All the exciting. ..

And Corbyn's right not be fussed over Brexit. In the greater scheme of things it really isn't important.

 

Hilarious. 

Are you a Marxist?

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8 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

Yes, no deal is better than May's deal but staying in would be the best option, so hopefully A50 can still be be revoked before 29th March.

If May gets her wretched deal through on the 3rd attempt we need to chuck her, and Corbyn, and all their cronies out PDQ, appoint a new government and hold a referendum on whether to rejoin the EU on the best terms we can get.

A good scenario would be if the EU takes control and refuses to allow a short extension of A50 insisting on an extension long enough for us to hold a GE and appoint a new government that is capable of starting from square one with a new and properly worded referendum.

This is why I am supporting no deal as it is the best and most democratic direction. I will be disappointed if the EU force through  May’s  deal when parliament and the people do not want it.

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13 minutes ago, Confounded said:

This is why I am supporting no deal as it is the best and most democratic direction. I will be disappointed if the EU force through  May’s  deal when parliament and the people do not want it.

So what happens after no deal?

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18 minutes ago, Confounded said:

This is why I am supporting no deal as it is the best and most democratic direction. I will be disappointed if the EU force through  May’s  deal when parliament and the people do not want it.

The end state of the WA could easily  be Norway 1.0/2.0 or something similar which would be agreeable to parliment and the public.

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6 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

So what happens after no deal?

We implement the plans in place for it, use the money saved from a no deal to soak up the mass unemployment predicted by the doommongers who can be put to work on the transition. It is very much the sticking plaster situation, rip it off and move on. I suspect the negotiations will go quicker than the ones we are about to embark on with May’s deal. 

This a very knowledgable forum but in the questions asked yesterday no one was able to explain the negative implications of leaving without a deal once citing unverified personal views or economic prediction was removed from their arsenal. Quite worrying some of you guys have been arguing about this for 2 years. I elected to ignore brexit until the final few months as everything else was going to noise. I would happily stay in the EU as I voted orginally, equally I would happily leave on the 29th of March and work through the short term disruption. What I don’t want is a fudged deal that locks us into a legally subservient position to the EU for years to if not decades...

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12 hours ago, Gribble said:

Clueless. The German taxpayers has been bailing out the lazy corrupt tax evading Greeks to the tune of hundreds of billiona

So why did they lend to them .... knowing full well they were 'lazy and corrupt'??

 German tax payers would never have bailed them ...... a few German politico-bankers did.

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Quote

Tim Martin, chairman of J D Wetherspoon, has issued a statement with the pub chain's half year results.

He says a "a barrage of negative economic forecasts...predicting that the UK will go to hell in a handcart without a 'deal' with the EU - which will effectively tie the country into EU membership and taxation, yet without representation.

"The doomsters ignore the most powerful nexus in economics, between democracy and prosperity - and the fact that the EU is becoming progressively less democratic, as it pursues an 'ever-closer union', for which there is no public consensus."

Profits fell to £50.3m from £62.0m while like-for-sale sales rose 6.3%.

reap what you sow Wurzel

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7 hours ago, zugzwang said:

All the exciting proposals are coming from the Left, including but not limited to a Citizen's Income, a Land Value Tax, the New Green Deal, Complexity Economics and MMT, a National Investment Bank, Lifetime Tenancies, a national program of general needs social housing.

And Corbyn's right not be fussed over Brexit. In the greater scheme of things it really isn't important.

 

The Commission has proposed to scrap the veto on tax policies and go to QMV. If carried through this could well affect what taxes members can levy. Would LVT be possible if we stayed within the EU? Maybe not.

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45 minutes ago, Confounded said:

We implement the plans in place for it, use the money saved from a no deal to soak up the mass unemployment predicted by the doommongers who can be put to work on the transition. It is very much the sticking plaster situation, rip it off and move on. I suspect the negotiations will go quicker than the ones we are about to embark on with May’s deal. 

This a very knowledgable forum but in the questions asked yesterday no one was able to explain the negative implications of leaving without a deal once citing unverified personal views or economic prediction was removed from their arsenal. Quite worrying some of you guys have been arguing about this for 2 years. I elected to ignore brexit until the final few months as everything else was going to noise. I would happily stay in the EU as I voted orginally, equally I would happily leave on the 29th of March and work through the short term disruption. What I don’t want is a fudged deal that locks us into a legally subservient position to the EU for years to if not decades...

What transition?  There can only be a transition with a deal..No deal is not an end state.

...will the UK be in a stronger or weaker position post no deal?  Will the issue of the Irish border or the money go away?  The 39bn will be owed once we renegotiate an FTA on the EU's terms, and it'll be "sign here", no more fannying about...we've had that from you for the last two years.  .  A 100bn's worth of goods go through Dover every year.  If trade drops by 10%, 20%, 30%, 50%...That 39bn is chicken feed.

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21 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

What transition?  There can only be a transition with a deal..No deal is not an end state.

...will the UK be in a stronger or weaker position post no deal?  Will the issue of the Irish border or the money go away?  The 39bn will be owed once we renegotiate an FTA on the EU's terms, and it'll be "sign here", no more fannying about...we've had that from you for the last two years.  .  A 100bn's worth of goods go through Dover every year.  If trade drops by 10%, 20%, 30%, 50%...That 39bn is chicken feed.

Why would we stop trading? Even if the EU shuns our products we will find someone globally to take them under WTO terms. The transition will be sorting out/firefighting the issue then spend the next 30 years moving forward as an independent state making decision on our boarders as we see fit. We are a net contributor to the EU, surely that gives us some negotiation power. I have only ever seen this as a leave without a deal or stay in question and thank the vast majority saw it that way also.

What if the EU has been stifling the UK and outside of the EU our economy falls by 7% this year (worse than the GFC....) but next year we are flat the year after we start the recovery and add 5% from then on, meanwhile Europe soldiers on in their economic quagmire, equally as possible as the end of the UK as the remainders feel!

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The way I see it is simple, I don't do detail.

There are distinct advantages to EU membership but if we are forced, by our government, to throw that away we will be better off being a free agent and making the best deals with whomever wants to deal with us.

Remaining in the EU is safe and easy.

Leaving the EU without any pre-negotiated deals is an unknown but potentially profitable option.

May's deal, Brexit in name only, is a nonsense, giving us the worst of both worlds.

One big danger of leaving is that we would lose the protection of EU law and hand more power to our shambolic and authoritarian government

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8 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

It is when all the exciting proposals can not be paid for. 

You're very confused. Govt spending isn't paid for out of taxation. Sovereign govts are never resource constrained; theoretically, they can borrow without limit at zero cost. Successive UK govts have already borrowed £1.2 trillion in excess of tax receipts since 2008 (so-called 'austerity') and there's no indication from the current one that this trend is about to be reversed. The only external risk the UK faces is a run on sterling, but a run on sterling is what we're going to have anyway unless the private sector is deleveraged in an orderly fashion and put back on a sustainable debt trajectory.

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29 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

The way I see it is simple, I don't do detail.

There are distinct advantages to EU membership but if we are forced, by our government, to throw that away we will be better off being a free agent and making the best deals with whomever wants to deal with us.

Remaining in the EU is safe and easy.

Leaving the EU without any pre-negotiated deals is an unknown but potentially profitable option.

May's deal, Brexit in name only, is a nonsense, giving us the worst of both worlds.

One big danger of leaving is that we would lose the protection of EU law and hand more power to our shambolic and authoritarian government

Spot on. Happy to stay, happy to leave but do not want middle ground.

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  • 354 The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal



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