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Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

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6 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Nice.

I was maybe thinking about one of these...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201901194092128

For that money you could get a very nice unrestricted E60 BMW M5 better in every way and about 50mph faster.

Admittedly it's not a frugal with petrol as the Mustang but you cannot have everything. 

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23 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Annoyingly I cannot find the post or link to where the ONS summarised all the problems with using NINOs as a guide to immigration.

The problems were pretty much as I have described previously and led to the ONS temporarily withdrawing their National Statistic status.

The attached is an earlier, longer and slightly less informative version of the link I posted. 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/methodologies/differencesbetweeninternationalpassengersurveyandnationalinsurancenumberstatisticsasshowninthemigrationstatisticsquarterlyreport

:blink:

I'm sure you are annoyed that you can't find any facts to back up your narrative. ;)

From your own link:

Quote

… 

3.

National Insurance numbers are registered to EU nationals who come to the UK and seek employment or commence work. These EU nationals can fall into four groups:

a) Those who come to the UK who do not immediately make an application for a NINo, i.e. those that were not seeking work straightaway (for example, students) or have not been able to register for a NINo because of employment restrictions (for example, until recently, Bulgarian or Romanian citizens);

b) Those who come to the UK to work and stay for a period of 12 months or more (long-term migrants);

c) Those who come to the UK to take up short-term work (short term migrants) - for example, in the agricultural or hospitality sectors; and

d) Those who come to the UK but subsequently return home in a short time period, for example because they cannot find work or for other reasons (eg. they don’t like the work or are homesick)  …

5.

The long term migration estimates produced by ONS are in line with United Nations definitions of a long term migrant and will only include the first (3a) and second (3b) of the categories, above, and the first category will be included during the year when the EU national entered the UK.

 

So, once again, 68% of NINo registrations are from EU citizens:

image.png.54378d83ae01c0049d1df9cb6c389953.png

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/759782/nino-registrations-adult-overseas-nationals-september-2018-summary.pdf

 

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6 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

Yes there is lots of delusions on this thread.

However, there is the reality that the Japanese are moving car production out of the UK Europe. 

Where is the sunny uplands of jobs moving to the UK because of Brexit?

Do you remember this exchange?

On ‎15‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 09:52, Peter Hun said:

****ing pathetic attempt at justifying the elimination of the UK car industry. Your understanding of globalisation comes from what??? FFS.

Your staying ahead of the game is to swap hundreds of thousands of engineering and manufacturing jobs (plus 5x that amount in indirect job) with a few dozen perfume marketing jobs?

There are 1500 international companies with their EU headquarters in the UK. Few dozen jobs each, lets see how many the UK can keep.

 

On ‎16‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 16:42, Sheeple Splinter said:

I found this useful to further my understanding of globalisation and European car production:

Quote

…  

Western Europe’s ugly truth and how to  secure competitiveness in a highly dynamic  market environment Based on the execs opinion, Western Europe finds itself nose-diving in regard to production volume: In comparison to last year, even more executives (74 %) believe Western Europe’s car production will account  for less than 5 %, which would only equal 6.1 million units of the global production by 2030 based on  current market forecasts. Executives have realized  that sustainable growth can only be generated in Asia and European OEMs have to react now...
 

https://assets.kpmg.com/content/dam/kpmg/tr/pdf/2018/03/global-automotive-executive-survey-2018.pdf  (p14)

From KPMG's 2019 survey:

Quote

How strong is the automotive industry in Western Europe being hit by the wave of restructuring?

While 67% of executives believe that production in Western Europe will be less than 5% by 2030 (today: 15%), China is becoming the leading nation in terms of battery electric mobility, by becoming aware of its own core competencies. As a result, other countries become even more dependent on China...

 

 

image.gif?w=500&c=1

 

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1 hour ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

:blink:

I'm sure you are annoyed that you can't find any facts to back up your narrative. ;)

From your own link:

So, once again, 68% of NINo registrations are from EU citizens:

image.png.54378d83ae01c0049d1df9cb6c389953.png

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/759782/nino-registrations-adult-overseas-nationals-september-2018-summary.pdf

 

☹️ Can you not see why the category breakdown supports what I was saying. Or why the ONS has criticised their use as a proxy for assessing EU immigration. 

 

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My biggest problem with Brexit is that it is a horrendous and unforgivable distraction. It distracts us from the very real problems that we have. Brexit is a faux problem designed to make us think that our binary choice, Remain or Leave, matters for our future more than the other intelligent, well thought out policies that the government could be developing. Neither of the two faux choices we were given in the referendum will matter at all if we do not fix the structural problems in our society and economy. 

We need to start asking sensible questions: Why does it matter so much that Japanese companies invest in the UK? Where have all our indigenous manufacturers gone? How do we make our indigenous manufacturers more competitive? 

James Dyson commented that the engineers are better in Asia, one of his reasons for basing his operations in Singapore. Why do we not have good engineers in the UK when British history is filled with great ones?

We have a housing crisis, where many are forced to rent when they would prefer to buy. How is this going to be resolved? Do Leavers or Remainers have the solutions, one that does not involve population decline? 

A choice for either Remain or Leave will not answer any of these questions, but we are forced to reframe everything we think about in the context of these artificial constructs. This forum is about this "Brexit" phenomenon, and what happens next? My hope is that I never hear the word Brexit ever again and the whole pointless exercise disappears from people's minds and gets replaced with something more important. At this point, I hope that either Brexit gets cancelled or we leave with No Deal on the 29 th of March. If we extend or delay then we are just prolonging the agony and will continue to be distracted from more pressing matters. 

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17 minutes ago, Left2014 said:

My biggest problem with Brexit is that it is a horrendous and unforgivable distraction. It distracts us from the very real problems that we have. Brexit is a faux problem designed to make us think that our binary choice, Remain or Leave, matters for our future more than the other intelligent, well thought out policies that the government could be developing. Neither of the two faux choices we were given in the referendum will matter at all if we do not fix the structural problems in our society and economy. 

We need to start asking sensible questions: Why does it matter so much that Japanese companies invest in the UK? Where have all our indigenous manufacturers gone? How do we make our indigenous manufacturers more competitive? 

James Dyson commented that the engineers are better in Asia, one of his reasons for basing his operations in Singapore. Why do we not have good engineers in the UK when British history is filled with great ones?

We have a housing crisis, where many are forced to rent when they would prefer to buy. How is this going to be resolved? Do Leavers or Remainers have the solutions, one that does not involve population decline? 

A choice for either Remain or Leave will not answer any of these questions, but we are forced to reframe everything we think about in the context of these artificial constructs. This forum is about this "Brexit" phenomenon, and what happens next? My hope is that I never hear the word Brexit ever again and the whole pointless exercise disappears from people's minds and gets replaced with something more important. At this point, I hope that either Brexit gets cancelled or we leave with No Deal on the 29 th of March. If we extend or delay then we are just prolonging the agony and will continue to be distracted from more pressing matters. 

Dyson talking Absolute  nonsense re: engineers in the uk. There are some great engineers in the uk. However a lot of the engineering is design and consultancy work, I.e. not linked to manufacturing within the uk 

engineering is looked down on in the uk in my opinion but as someone once said to me. We always need electrical power, there wil always be a job

Large scale manufacturing is gone and won’t return.  

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7 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

For that money you could get a very nice unrestricted E60 BMW M5 better in every way and about 50mph faster.

Admittedly it's not a frugal with petrol as the Mustang but you cannot have everything. 

I love beemers, I do, but they are too common. Same with Audi. Though the V10 lambo engined S6 is the ultimate wolf in drag.

7 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Dreary Me.

 

I like it. Reminds me of Saab’s. Slightly odd.

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1 hour ago, Left2014 said:

My biggest problem with Brexit is that it is a horrendous and unforgivable distraction. It distracts us from the very real problems that we have. Brexit is a faux problem designed to make us think that our binary choice, Remain or Leave, matters for our future more than the other intelligent, well thought out policies that the government could be developing. Neither of the two faux choices we were given in the referendum will matter at all if we do not fix the structural problems in our society and economy. 

We need to start asking sensible questions: Why does it matter so much that Japanese companies invest in the UK? Where have all our indigenous manufacturers gone? How do we make our indigenous manufacturers more competitive? 

James Dyson commented that the engineers are better in Asia, one of his reasons for basing his operations in Singapore. Why do we not have good engineers in the UK when British history is filled with great ones?

We have a housing crisis, where many are forced to rent when they would prefer to buy. How is this going to be resolved? Do Leavers or Remainers have the solutions, one that does not involve population decline? 

A choice for either Remain or Leave will not answer any of these questions, but we are forced to reframe everything we think about in the context of these artificial constructs. This forum is about this "Brexit" phenomenon, and what happens next? My hope is that I never hear the word Brexit ever again and the whole pointless exercise disappears from people's minds and gets replaced with something more important. At this point, I hope that either Brexit gets cancelled or we leave with No Deal on the 29 th of March. If we extend or delay then we are just prolonging the agony and will continue to be distracted from more pressing matters. 

It starts at school. It’s too easy, too kool, and fails to push kids hard enough. STEM is our salvation.

46 minutes ago, hurlerontheditch said:

Dyson talking Absolute  nonsense re: engineers in the uk. There are some great engineers in the uk. However a lot of the engineering is design and consultancy work, I.e. not linked to manufacturing within the uk 

engineering is looked down on in the uk in my opinion but as someone once said to me. We always need electrical power, there wil always be a job

Large scale manufacturing is gone and won’t return.  

Agree. We have very talented engineers and designers. Long may that continue. Our fashion industry is also surprisingly successful and trail blazing. To remain of value we must continue to innovate. To innovate we must value it. Free uni for engineers, doctors, and scientists. That would be a start.

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6 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

It starts at school. It’s too easy, too kool, and fails to push kids hard enough. STEM is our salvation.

Agree. We have very talented engineers and designers. Long may that continue. Our fashion industry is also surprisingly successful and trail blazing. To remain of value we must continue to innovate. To innovate we must value it. Free uni for engineers, doctors, and scientists. That would be a start.

Agreed

i was lucky enough that the EU paid for my third level education in engineering 

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8 hours ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

Do you remember this exchange?

 

From KPMG's 2019 survey:

 

 

image.gif?w=500&c=1

 

Oh yes, oh yes you need that kind of treatment to deal with your delusion, but It's good that you realize it.

Your problem is taking partial information out of the context.

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9 hours ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

Do you remember this exchange?

 

From KPMG's 2019 survey:

 

 

image.gif?w=500&c=1

 

Brexit is a solution to car manufacturers problem, close British factories and Brexiteers will supportsupport and defend it.

Who's the traitor now?

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15 minutes ago, 17clarence said:

Anna Soubry on LBC from 10am this morning.

The Independent Group is already the third most popular political force in Britain with support from 14 per cent of voters - pulling support from all the main parties.

Where is the other pro hard Brexit UK Independence Party?

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27 minutes ago, rollover said:

The Independent Group is already the third most popular political force in Britain with support from 14 per cent of voters - pulling support from all the main parties.

Where is the other pro hard Brexit UK Independence Party?

What conclusions do you reach for a group that is two days old polling and is polling 14%?

You appear to conclude that it's a boost for Remainers. Oddly it may be but not in the way you suggest. This is a disparate group that is against Brexit. But what is it actually for? It doesn't have any programme and contains MPs from both main parties (how long will that last?). How on earth can anyone sensible vote for a grouping like this, little more than a PR handout, when they know nothing about them. To use the vernacular: it's bonkers!

If anything it gives some credence to those who say Leavers didn't know what they voted for. However, it gives more credence to the view that the electorate generally don't know what they're voting for.

Edited by crouch

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43 minutes ago, 17clarence said:

Anna Soubry on LBC from 10am this morning.

Anna Soubry is the MP for Broxtowe, she has a majority of 839, and her constituency voted 54.6% to leave the EU.

She believes she cannot reform the Tories from within and has left the party. She wants to remain in the EU and reform it from within. 

She wants another referendum so people can have another say about whether they still want to leave the EU, but she is not willing to stand down and have a by-election to let her constituents have a say on whether they wish to continue to support her.

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4 hours ago, Left2014 said:

My biggest problem with Brexit is that it is a horrendous and unforgivable distraction. It distracts us from the very real problems that we have. Brexit is a faux problem designed to make us think that our binary choice, Remain or Leave, matters for our future more than the other intelligent, well thought out policies that the government could be developing. Neither of the two faux choices we were given in the referendum will matter at all if we do not fix the structural problems in our society and economy.

Politicians have been ignoring real problems for years. Brexit is the first chance we've had in that time to give them a kick up the rear end for their complacency and ignorance - the first sign that the population is now expecting government to spend its time governing, not playing politics. Remain is wanting to maintain the environment that brought us to where we are.

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50 minutes ago, crouch said:

What conclusions do you reach for a group that is two days old polling and is polling 14%?

You appear to conclude that it's a boost for Remainers. Oddly it may be but not in the way you suggest. This is a disparate group that is against Brexit. But what is it actually for? It doesn't have any programme and contains MPs from both main parties (how long will that last?). How on earth can anyone sensible vote for a grouping like this, little more than a PR handout, when they know nothing about them. To use the vernacular: it's bonkers!

If anything it gives some credence to those who say Leavers didn't know what they voted for. However, it gives more credence to the view that the electorate generally don't know what they're voting for.

You may not like it, your opinion, your choice!

But people are sick and tired of the Brexit sorry saga and the damage it's causing everywhere you look.

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Just now, Riedquat said:

Politicians have been ignoring real problems for years. Brexit is the first chance we've had in that time to give them a kick up the rear end for their complacency and ignorance - the first sign that the population is now expecting government to spend its time governing, not playing politics. Remain is wanting to maintain the environment that brought us to where we are.

Rock the kasbah.

36 Days. Tick tock.

 

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2 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Politicians have been ignoring real problems for years. Brexit is the first chance we've had in that time to give them a kick up the rear end for their complacency and ignorance - the first sign that the population is now expecting government to spend its time governing, not playing politics. Remain is wanting to maintain the environment that brought us to where we are.

Pyrrhic victory!

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6 minutes ago, rollover said:

You may not like it, your opinion, your choice!

But people are sick and tired of the Brexit sorry saga and the damage it's causing everywhere you look.

Some people are sick and tired of Brexit. Some are sick and tired of the attempts to undermine the referendum result.

In total a lot of people are sick and tired.

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56 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Anna Soubry is the MP for Broxtowe, she has a majority of 839, and her constituency voted 54.6% to leave the EU.

She believes she cannot reform the Tories from within and has left the party. She wants to remain in the EU and reform it from within. 

She wants another referendum so people can have another say about whether they still want to leave the EU, but she is not willing to stand down and have a by-election to let her constituents have a say on whether they wish to continue to support her.

MPs like to kid themselves that their constituents voted for them, as individuals, rather than their party, which is as it is supposed to be but isn't.

Most people vote for the party and have to lookup the name of their MP.

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10 minutes ago, crouch said:

Some people are sick and tired of Brexit. Some are sick and tired of the attempts to undermine the referendum result.

In total a lot of people are sick and tired.

Exactly, that's why Labour and Tory are splitting now and British politics is going to be redefined.

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16 minutes ago, crouch said:

Some people are sick and tired of Brexit. Some are sick and tired of the attempts to undermine the referendum result.

In total a lot of people are sick and tired.

I'm just sick of our whole political system.

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  • 355 The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal



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