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Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.


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I do.   https://twitter.com/housepricemania

1409 pages....you guys should have your own forum !!!

Oh OK. Shame that really, but hey it looks like @IMHAL helped us both out. Nice repost though, thanks ! Any thoughts ?  

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 Todays court judgement puts at question every single EU directive that has not been approved by Parliament and effectively negates the concept of Brussels supremacy and by doing so effectively undermines the whole of the Lisbon Treaty - the powers the government were claiming are exactly the powers that enabled the Lisbon Treaty to be supreme, so if the government doesn't have that power then presumably it never has had and the way in which EU directives have been implemented since 2008, in many cases, may have been illegal Surprise [:O] 

Presumably now, every single edict from Brussels will have to be fully reviewed and voted on by Parliament Indifferent [:|] By my reckoning, that renders us out of the EU by default Yes [Y]

 

 

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5 hours ago, hotairmail said:

now It is not the same government. I believe that constitutionally speaking, May was asked to form a new government from amongst Her MP's by the Queen. ( I know, it's all bullsh!t).

Fair point about government continuity but it was the position of the original government voted in at the 2015 general election which doesn't make it any less complicated etc especially as the leading government figures apparently now enabling Leave were all for Remain before the referendum.

Even so the pre referendum government was apparently committed to the referendum decision as is the post referendum government - apparently.

Edited by billybong
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5 minutes ago, ****-eyed octopus said:

Provide a peaceful means of protest? I don't know, I'm not endorsing it. 

But i'm not on here calling remainers a bunch of craven, supine autoeroticists with a benefits mentality. Because I don't stoop to insults. Oh no.

 

 

Yes, you indirectly do. Get over your frustration.

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1 minute ago, satch said:

People have been saying for ages that the EU in-out vote was non-binding and only advisory, I guess even before 23 June. It seems that governments do not check if what they are doing can be vetoed at any point. Osborne had the same when the Lords stopped some of his finance changes because they were not implemented / proposed in the correct way to stop them being blocked by the Lords.

If all that is required is a Yes - No vote then get the MPs in, vote and let that be an end to it. If the MPs vote against the will of the people then May can call a vote of no confidence in the government or other action (as per fixed parliament act) and force an election. Would create chaos and probably end the career of any MP who voted against the will of the people (bar Scottish MPs).

But we should never, given the importance of the EU In-Out decision, be in the position where a bunch of rich self-interests can even question the In-Out vote cats by the people.

If she called an election under those circumstances, she could finish Labour in the north.

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14 minutes ago, satch said:

People have been saying for ages that the EU in-out vote was non-binding and only advisory, I guess even before 23 June. It seems that governments do not check if what they are doing can be vetoed at any point. Osborne had the same when the Lords stopped some of his finance changes because they were not implemented / proposed in the correct way to stop them being blocked by the Lords.

If all that is required is a Yes - No vote then get the MPs in, vote and let that be an end to it. If the MPs vote against the will of the people then May can call a vote of no confidence in the government or other action (as per fixed parliament act) and force an election. Would create chaos and probably end the career of any MP who voted against the will of the people (bar Scottish MPs).

But we should never, given the importance of the EU In-Out decision, be in the position where a bunch of rich self-interests can even question the In-Out vote cast by the people.

You are assuming that the non-voters will support brexit....they wont.

You also need to take into consideration that you will have say 500,000 extra of age voters that will vote overwhelmingly on the remain side and 500,00 deaths that will vote overwhelmingly in the opposite direction. Couple that with the regret voters and non-voters that wont make the same mistake again and you will be in for a shock.

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Deja-vu:

Maastricht

Quote

In the United Kingdom, an opt-out from the treaty's social provisions was opposed in Parliament by the opposition Labour and Liberal Democrat MPs and the treaty itself by the Maastricht Rebels within the governing Conservative Party. The number of rebels exceeded the Conservative majority in the House of Commons, and thus the government of John Major came close to losing the confidence of the House.[10] In accordance with British constitutional convention, specifically that of parliamentary sovereignty, ratification in the UK was not subject to approval by referendum.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maastricht_Treaty

Lisbon

Quote

United Kingdom – High Court[edit]

A case was brought against the UK government by Stuart Wheeler. Mr Wheeler claimed the government was legally bound by an election promise to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. The government asserted that the promise was no longer valid as it was the Constitutional Treaty for which a referendum was promised, and that the Lisbon Treaty was fundamentally different in content and in nature (being an amending treaty rather than a constitution). The court could not find anything unlawful in the government's ratification of the treaty and the case was rejected. The case was appealed but was once more rejected. During the period of the trial the government refrained from fully ratifying the treaty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratification_of_the_Treaty_of_Lisbon

So lessons should have been learnt; apart from incompetence, negligence and dereliction of duty, words fail me...

It is such a relief that UKproductive is causing economic forecasts to be revised up.

Tick Tock

Edited by Sheeple Splinter
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20 minutes ago, Chunketh said:

You are assuming that the non-voters will support brexit....they wont.

You also need to take into consideration that you will have say 500,000 extra of age voters that will vote overwhelmingly on the remain side and 500,00 deaths that will vote overwhelmingly in the opposite direction. Couple that with the regret voters and non-voters that wont make the same mistake again and you will be in for a shock.

 

...yes the pigs will still wish to keep their snouts in the Euro trough for their own vested interests........the only problem for them is that 'Union' is likely to implode with elections in France and Germany next year and the state of their financial systems including the currency at risk...there may be no place for the 'remainers' to remain......:rolleyes:

 

 

Edited by South Lorne
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18 minutes ago, satch said:

People have been saying for ages that the EU in-out vote was non-binding and only advisory, I guess even before 23 June. It seems that governments do not check if what they are doing can be vetoed at any point. Osborne had the same when the Lords stopped some of his finance changes because they were not implemented / proposed in the correct way to stop them being blocked by the Lords.

If all that is required is a Yes - No vote then get the MPs in, vote and let that be an end to it. If the MPs vote against the will of the people then May can call a vote of no confidence in the government or other action (as per fixed parliament act) and force an election. Would create chaos and probably end the career of any MP who voted against the will of the people (bar Scottish MPs).

But we should never, given the importance of the EU In-Out decision, be in the position where a bunch of rich self-interests can even question the In-Out vote cast by the people.

I'm a strong remainer as most will know, but I am not going to gloat over this legal decision, all I will say is that the legal decision is a correct legal decision.

The point now is that it is up to Parliament, and as I said weeks ago, Parliament is Sovereign and Theresa May's approach is/was clearly ultra vires. What will be interesting is if the Government decides to pursue an appeal in the courts. To my mind, this shows that they are just stalling article 50 and aren't serious on Brexit.

If the Government is serious then they will take the article 50 decision to Parliament.  Of course, the irony of this is that is points out what people have said all along  about the Brexit vote note being binding and only advisory.  But guess what, MPs are meant to represent the wishes/best interest of their electors and the country, so I guess this ultimately comes down to democracy.

I'm happy to stand by the decision of Parliament, certainly happier than standing by a decision made by a combo of May, Davis, Fox  and Patel.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

I'm a strong remainer as most will know, but I am not going to gloat over this legal decision, all I will say is that the legal decision is a correct legal decision.

The point now is that it is up to Parliament, and as I said weeks ago, Parliament is Sovereign and Theresa May's approach is/was clearly ultra vires. What will be interesting is if the Government decides to pursue an appeal in the courts. To my mind, this shows that they are just stalling article 50 and aren't serious on Brexit.

If the Government is serious then they will take the article 50 decision to Parliament.  Of course, the irony of this is that is points out what people have said all along  about the Brexit vote note being binding and only advisory.  But guess what, MPs are meant to represent the wishes/best interest of their electors and the country, so I guess this ultimately comes down to democracy.

I'm happy to stand by the decision of Parliament, certainly happier than standing by a decision made by a combo of May, Davis, Fox  and Patel.

 

 

 

 

 

...the only true test is an immediate General Election ...then we will have a Parliament which represents the people ..the way Labour have messed up we no longer have a democracy ..after all do we wish to be the last net contributor in the 'Union' to remain ...the rest will 'get out' before we do  ..maybe you wish to stay as the last pig in the trough...I don't ...:rolleyes:

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3 minutes ago, South Lorne said:

 

...yes the pigs will still wish to keep their snouts in the Euro trough for their own vested interests........the only problem for them is that 'Union' is like implode with elections in France and Germany next year and the state of their financial systems including the currency at risk...there may be no place for the 'remainers' to remain......:rolleyes:

 

 

Yes lets celebrate it! After all, its not kept the peace for 70 years.

The EU needs to reform, oh god it does, but the alternative is horrible.

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1 minute ago, Chunketh said:

Yes lets celebrate it! After all, its not kept the peace for 70 years.

The EU needs to reform, oh god it does, but the alternative is horrible.

...the EU as an institution run by the unelected is not fit for purpose and should be disbanded....:rolleyes:

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10 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

I'm a strong remainer as most will know, but I am not going to gloat over this legal decision, all I will say is that the legal decision is a correct legal decision.

The point now is that it is up to Parliament, and as I said weeks ago, Parliament is Sovereign and Theresa May's approach is/was clearly ultra vires. What will be interesting is if the Government decides to pursue an appeal in the courts. To my mind, this shows that they are just stalling article 50 and aren't serious on Brexit.

If the Government is serious then they will take the article 50 decision to Parliament.  Of course, the irony of this is that is points out what people have said all along  about the Brexit vote note being binding and only advisory.  But guess what, MPs are meant to represent the wishes/best interest of their electors and the country, so I guess this ultimately comes down to democracy.

I'm happy to stand by the decision of Parliament, certainly happier than standing by a decision made by a combo of May, Davis, Fox  and Patel.

 

 

 

This. If I don't like it I will just vote with my feet and leave.

Its got to be a tactic. The supreme court will shoot them down in flames because they don't have a leg to stand on. If by some twist(ing) of arms they do win the claimants will take it to the European court and it will be stuck there for a good while (probably on a timetable) before they rule against the government.

The better tactic, if you wanted to invoke, would be to start talking and getting it debated, but nooo, our glorious leaders want carte blanche to do what the hell they like....that tells me they are either deluded power hungry morons, or its part of a grand plan.

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