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Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

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7 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

That would actually suit me fine as hopefully, if we rejoin, we will then be in the Euro and Schengen and have closer integration than we have now, thus limiting the authority of UK governments which, since 1997, have been disastrous.

My argument for a second referendum now is not for my benefit, but because I believe the people are being railroaded into something that they do not want, May's deal in particular!

My prediction is that once we are out the appetite to join erodes over time. And we never rejoin.

Like Norway falling from around 40% to less than 20% wanting to join over the last 15 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway–European_Union_relations

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12 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

I’m perfectly happy with 11th hour shenanigans. The EU is famous for it. But this is at odds with the HOC wanting a final say well in advance.

11th hour shenanigans on the part of the Maybot, not the EU. Why do you turn everything on it's head?

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2 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

11th hour shenanigans on the part of the Maybot, not the EU. Why do you turn everything on it's head?

I’m not. I just don’t see the HOC being happy to leave brexit to 11th hour shenanigans and will try to avoid this scenario at all costs.

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23 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

My prediction is that once we are out the appetite to join erodes over time. And we never rejoin.

Like Norway falling from around 40% to less than 20% wanting to join over the last 15 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway–European_Union_relations

I hope you're wrong!

I have lost all faith in the ability of this country to govern itself since Blair removed many of the safeguards to individual freedom and, alarmingly, the subsequent Conservative governments have made no attempt to reinstate them but instead have further eroded them.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/revealed-the-full-extent-of-labours-curbs-on-civil-liberties-1627054.html

Almost 60 new powers contained in more than 25 Acts of Parliament have whittled away at freedoms and broken pledges set out in the Human Rights Act and Magna Carta, according to a new audit of laws introduced since Labour came to power in 1997. The dossier, compiled by the Convention on Modern Liberty, criticises police powers to detain terror suspects for 28 days without charge, new stop-and-search powers handed to police (allowing them to stop people without reason at airports and other designated areas), and restrictions on the right of peaceful protest.

 

It is the first time such a picture of the erosion of rights under Labour has been published. The rise in surveillance in Britain is also documented, including new laws allowing individuals to be electronically tagged, and the legal interception of letters, emails and phone calls.

 

Control orders, designed to confine terrorist suspects who have not been found guilty, are also cited. The orders, created under the Prevention of Terrorism Act in 2005, can include the power of house arrest and electronic tagging.

"The right to privacy has been eroded, perhaps permanently, by broad powers to intercept, collect, store and share our private information," the dossier states.

Edited by Bruce Banner

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7 hours ago, smash said:

You either think referendums are a good way to run a country or not, presumably you DO. This argumentation you deploy here is basically; 

But my chosen referendum is the most super special snowflake that ever fell to the ground on christmas day......... way of arguing.

Nicely put.

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2 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

My prediction is that once we are out the appetite to join erodes over time. And we never rejoin.

Like Norway falling from around 40% to less than 20% wanting to join over the last 15 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway–European_Union_relations

Norway has all the benefits of being in the EU, abides by the 4 freedoms without having any say in making the rules, are in the schengen area, are part of the sm and the eea (but not the cu). Maybe they just don't see the need to contribute to the rule making?....

No wonder the people don't see the benefit of 'joining'..... it's because they are... 'in all but name' .....essentially in already.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

I hope you're wrong!

I have lost all faith in the ability of this country to govern itself since Blair removed many of the safeguards to individual freedom and, alarmingly, the subsequent Conservative governments have made no attempt to reinstate them but instead have further eroded them.

The answer to that isn't to run off and ask someone even less accountable to govern us!

It's unfortunate that we've degenerated into being so scared of jumping at every shadow that absolutely anything can get passed in the name of "safety" (to the point where it's become a word I spit at as much as "efficient" and "growth" and "progress" - all things used to push through changes that make the country an ever-increasingly less pleasant place to live in) but the EU isn't the answer to this.

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3 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

No wonder the people don't see the benefit of 'joining'..... it's because they are... 'in all but name' .....essentially in already.

Then I'd have thought the exact opposite, they'd be very keen on joining if the only difference was that they'd get a say.

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13 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

Norway has all the benefits of being in the EU, abides by the 4 freedoms without having any say in making the rules, are in the schengen area, are part of the sm and the eea (but not the cu). Maybe they just don't see the need to contribute to the rule making?....

No wonder the people don't see the benefit of 'joining'..... it's because they are... 'in all but name' .....essentially in already.

 

 

 

 

Probably best we leave the Dutch,  Germans and Scandinavians to make the rules anyway given the state of the average U.K. politician.

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11 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Then I'd have thought the exact opposite, they'd be very keen on joining if the only difference was that they'd get a say.

Who knows?....maybe the people just don't see the need and therefore don't actually want to join..... perhaps they value being out of the customs union more than contributing to the rule making.

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5 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

Who knows?....maybe the people just don't see the need and therefore don't actually want to join..... perhaps they value being out of the customs union more than contributing to the rule making.

I guess Olso is a long long way from Brussels!

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11 minutes ago, btl_hater said:

Probably best we leave the Dutch,  Germans and Scandinavians to make the rules anyway given the state of the average U.K. politician.

I don't think I've heard many good words said about the current state of our politics from either side........ therefore, sadly I have to concur with you.

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4 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

By bike. Light gets there pretty quickly.

Not in winter!

I love the Scandinavians; I really hope we can forge a North Sea Alliance.

Edited by GrizzlyDave

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9 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Looks like the Icelandic are also less enthusiastic for joining now than they were...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland–European_Union_relations

I guess Gordon Brown and Icesave hurt their pride a little (did they over extend themselves?????..... just a little!)...... next time they get into financial dooda they will once again magically see the benefit of being part of a larger and more stable group. 

Edited by IMHAL

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3 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Not in winter!

I love the Scandinavians; I really How we can forge a North Sea Alliance.

What?... winter affects the speed of light in a fiber optic cable...that's new!

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I wonder if anyone has told Corbyn his vaunted CU won't get him frictionless trade. Or sort NI.

It's time Starmer came clean and says he wants to stay in the SM.

Will go that way if we move to a GE...

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1 hour ago, IMHAL said:

I guess Gordon Brown and Icesave hurt their pride a little (did they over extend themselves?????..... just a little!)...... next time they get into financial dooda they will once again magically see the benefit of being part of a larger and more stable group. 

Sure.

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1 hour ago, IMHAL said:

I guess Gordon Brown and Icesave hurt their pride a little (did they over extend themselves?????..... just a little!)...... next time they get into financial dooda they will once again magically see the benefit of being part of a larger and more stable group. 

Sure.

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3 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Looks like the Icelandic are also less enthusiastic for joining now than they were...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland–European_Union_relations

The populations of Iceland and Norway seem pretty content in EFTA - not looking for EU membership, not looking to leave the single market. My guess is the population of the UK would be pretty content with EFTA too. It fits with that line you hear from many people who voted in for the EEC referendum and then out in 2016 - we just wanted a trading relationship, not all the political stuff. Well, EFTA gets you back to the trading relationship.

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4 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

The populations of Iceland and Norway seem pretty content in EFTA - not looking for EU membership, not looking to leave the single market. My guess is the population of the UK would be pretty content with EFTA too. It fits with that line you hear from many people who voted in for the EEC referendum and then out in 2016 - we just wanted a trading relationship, not all the political stuff. Well, EFTA gets you back to the trading relationship.

Probably, but just how much political stuff is avoided with it?

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5 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Probably, but just how much political stuff is avoided with it?

The main ones are no closer union and no ECJ jurisdiction in EFTA countries.

Quote

However, it wasn't a complete replication of EU membership. The Efta countries got opt-outs on agriculture and fisheries and excused themselves from all the other aspects of EU membership, like justice and home affairs. But the really important historical distinction was political, not economic. They were to have no part of any of this ever-closer-union stuff the EU went on about. And they refused to come under the control of a supranational institution. This was a treaty and they would abide by it. But no organisation controlled them. They would create their own infrastructure to check they were complying. It wouldn't be up to the EU to make that call.

Ian Dunt's 3-part article on how EFTA works is worth reading if you haven't already, it starts here:

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/09/12/the-eea-option-saving-britain-from-hard-brexit

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  • 399 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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