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Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.


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HOLA441
6 minutes ago, MarkG said:

How often, exactly, do you plan to hold referendums just to see whether people have changed their minds? Every day? Every week? Every month? Every year?

Remainers want to keep voting until they get a 'Remain' vote, at which point Britons will never be allowed to vote again. Ever.

We know. It's what the EU always does.

Besides, why would anyone trust a second vote? Britain has a government willing to destroy its own party and risk civil war to remain in the EU even though people voted to leave. And we're seriously supposed to believe they won't rig a referendum?

I'm honestly quite shocked that they didn't rig the last one. I can only assume that, like the Democrats in the 2016 election, they didn't think they could lose.

So you're saying that people may never, ever, change their minds.

Pathetic argument!

Let's apply this to other things..

Divorce... You made your bed, now lie in it, tough titties!

Crime... Yes someone else has admitted to the crime but you must still serve your sentence.

Abortion... The Pope is against it, enough said, suck it up!

I could go on but what's the point as my words just fall on deaf ears.

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HOLA442
3 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

So you're saying that people may never, ever, change their minds.

Pathetic argument!

Let's apply this to other things..

Divorce... You made your bed, now lie in it, tough titties!

Crime... Yes someone else has admitted to the crime but you must still serve your sentence.

Abortion... The Pope is against it, enough said, suck it up!

I could go on but what's the point as my words just fall on deaf ears.

So, Bruce, how often should we have a referendum?

Should we believe it anyway? After all, we were told the first was definitive & the result would be enacted.

No deal dependency. Just remain in the EU or leave the EU.

 

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HOLA443
9 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

could go on but what's the point as my words just fall on deaf ears.

No, it's just that not everyone is as convinced as you that the public have changed their minds.

Or that a 2nd ref wouldn't be catastrophic for the notion of representative democracy...or that there's no agreed question anyone thinks would pass...or that we'd have more months of turmoil, disharmony and uncertainty with no guarantee of things improving...or that time is tight before elections for the EU MEPs...and so on....

Edited by thehowler
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HOLA444
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HOLA445
2 minutes ago, thehowler said:

No, it's just that not everyone is as convinced as you that the public have changed their minds.

Or that a 2nd ref wouldn't be catastrophic for the notion of representative democracy...or that there's no agreed question anyone thinks would pass...or that we'd have more months of turmoil, disharmony and uncertainty with no guarantee of things improving...or that time is tight before elections for the EU MEPs...and so on....

Then ask them!

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HOLA446
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HOLA447
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HOLA448
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HOLA449
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HOLA4410

Bruce,

There is a legal precedent in the GFA for a referendum (at the NI   Secretaries discretion) no sooner than once every seven years (if the vote is a no to reunification). See bottom of page 4.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/136652/agreement.pdf

On that precedent, personally I would be happy to have an in/out EU referendum in June 2023.

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HOLA4411
1 minute ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Bruce,

There is a legal precedent in the GFA for a referendum (at the NI   Secretaries discretion) no sooner than once every seven years (if the vote is a no to reunification). See bottom of page 4.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/136652/agreement.pdf

On that precedent, personally I would be happy to have an in/out EU referendum in June 2023.

I bet you would but the majority of the people have changed their minds and want a 2nd referendum now.

 

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HOLA4412
1 hour ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Having a second in/out Referendum makes an absolute mockery of democracy.

It is an insult to all those who voted in the first referendum.

By all means have a vote on the type of brexit. But the decision to leave has been made.

You're right, the decision to leave has been made. I fully expect this to be implemented in 3 months' time when the UK ceases to be a member of the EU.

The first referendum did not say "and also if we leave we can never vote to rejoin".

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HOLA4413
11 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Bruce,

There is a legal precedent in the GFA for a referendum (at the NI   Secretaries discretion) no sooner than once every seven years (if the vote is a no to reunification). See bottom of page 4.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/136652/agreement.pdf

On that precedent, personally I would be happy to have an in/out EU referendum in June 2023.

7 years, 5 years, not that different. My guess is 2nd referendum in 2021.

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HOLA4414

 

3 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

You're right, the decision to leave has been made. I fully expect this to be implemented in 3 months' time when the UK ceases to be a member of the EU.

The first referendum did not say "and also if we leave we can never vote to rejoin".

Of course not, happy to have a rejoin referendum. But not for a good while (we need to live leave to have an informed view about it).

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HOLA4415
26 minutes ago, thehowler said:

On reflection, I am now seriously worried that May's deal wrangling could drag into April, with emergency measures coming in as an extra incentive for MPs....

IMHO Maybot is playing a game of chicken. Just watched some talking heads on Bloomberg, and they expect 11th hour shenanigans.

#AbsoluteShambles

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HOLA4416
2 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Of course not, happy to have a rejoin referendum. But not for a good while (we need to live leave to have an informed view about it).

Well that's what you want, but the timing of the second referendum is wide open as there's no process to say when it can/can't happen.

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HOLA4417
13 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

7 years, 5 years, not that different. My guess is 2nd referendum in 2021.

That would actually suit me fine as hopefully, if we rejoin, we will then be in the Euro and Schengen and have closer integration than we have now, thus limiting the authority of UK governments which, since 1997, have been disastrous.

My argument for a second referendum now is not for my benefit, but because I believe the people are being railroaded into something that they do not want, May's deal in particular!

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HOLA4418
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HOLA4419
2 hours ago, MarkG said:

How often, exactly, do you plan to hold referendums just to see whether people have changed their minds? Every day? Every week? Every month? Every year?

Remainers want to keep voting until they get a 'Remain' vote, at which point Britons will never be allowed to vote again. Ever.

We know. It's what the EU always does.

Besides, why would anyone trust a second vote? Britain has a government willing to destroy its own party and risk civil war to remain in the EU even though people voted to leave. And we're seriously supposed to believe they won't rig a referendum?

I'm honestly quite shocked that they didn't rig the last one. I can only assume that, like the Democrats in the 2016 election, they didn't think they could lose.

Liam Fox has already stated that is a 2nd referendum did take place and Remain won he would the next morning start campaigning for a 3rd referendum, where does it end

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HOLA4420
1 hour ago, Dorkins said:

You're right, the decision to leave has been made. I fully expect this to be implemented in 3 months' time when the UK ceases to be a member of the EU.

The first referendum did not say "and also if we leave we can never vote to rejoin".

I think this is by far the best idea, leave the EU and when it becomes clear that it will not work then have a 2nd referendum to return

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HOLA4421
6 minutes ago, localhero1983 said:

I think this is by far the best idea, leave the EU and when it becomes clear that it will not work then have a 2nd referendum to return

The key advantage of this is that the UK "gets brexit out of its system" so to speak.

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HOLA4422
1 minute ago, smash said:

The key advantage of this is that the UK "gets brexit out of its system" so to speak.

Exactly, those demanding a 2nd referendum right now just cannot get it into their heads how divisive that would be, it's all about what they want and stuff the consequences. Everyone gets what they want with a full on proper Brexit, when it fails and it will, then campaign to get us back in. Should Brexit flourish then a lot of us will need to eat a lot of humble pie and even Remainers will be happy at that point, everyone is a winner whatever the outcome

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HOLA4423
1 hour ago, ****-eyed octopus said:

So, Bruce, how often should we have a referendum?

Should we believe it anyway? After all, we were told the first was definitive & the result would be enacted.

No deal dependency. Just remain in the EU or leave the EU.

 

You either think referendums are a good way to run a country or not, presumably you DO. This argumentation you deploy here is basically; 

But my chosen referendum is the most super special snowflake that ever fell to the ground on christmas day......... way of arguing.

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HOLA4424
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HOLA4425
7 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

That would actually suit me fine as hopefully, if we rejoin, we will then be in the Euro and Schengen and have closer integration than we have now, thus limiting the authority of UK governments which, since 1997, have been disastrous.

My argument for a second referendum now is not for my benefit, but because I believe the people are being railroaded into something that they do not want, May's deal in particular!

My prediction is that once we are out the appetite to join erodes over time. And we never rejoin.

Like Norway falling from around 40% to less than 20% wanting to join over the last 15 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway–European_Union_relations

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