Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

If you are suggesting that Brexit requires the average UK citizen o eat fish, not as it is found in the chip shop, I think your cause is lost. 

No, I'm saying that I don't think checking of UK > EU animal exports would be that big a deal, and may have positives. AIUI, the only very time limited agri produce we export is crustaceans for Paris restaurants. If it becomes as profitable to sell the top sea produce to London restaurants, why couldn't we become the top city in Europe for restaurants, in the same was as Japan is the top country in the world? Liverpool could even become a mini Osaka  There's a lot of jobs in the restaurant industry in London, and people like Ramsay have become a UK brand export. Think it could be better for the UK economy, in the same way that e.g. pickling mackerel & herring would not only create UK jobs, but a higher BOP for finished products, rather than raw ingredients. The only real downside seems to be an extra hour or two for less time limited things, like animal carcasses - which I suppose might slightly add to the cost.

I'd like to see a breakdown of UK agricultural exports, if anyone knows of one? 

[rollover]

The new catchy phrases for Brexit is now "managed no-deal' Brexit"!

What will be managed?

What managed mean in this context and what does it stand for?

[Riedquat]

6 minutes ago, rollover said:

The new catchy phrases for Brexit is now "managed no-deal' Brexit"!

What will be managed?

What managed mean in this context and what does it stand for?

It stands for Theresa May trying to look like she's doing something.

[PeanutButter]

11 minutes ago, highYield said:

No, I'm saying that I don't think checking of UK > EU animal exports would be that big a deal, and may have positives. AIUI, the only very time limited agri produce we export is crustaceans for Paris restaurants. If it becomes as profitable to sell the top sea produce to London restaurants, why couldn't we become the top city in Europe for restaurants, in the same was as Japan is the top country in the world? Liverpool could even become a mini Osaka  There's a lot of jobs in the restaurant industry in London, and people like Ramsay have become a UK brand export. Think it could be better for the UK economy, in the same way that e.g. pickling mackerel & herring would not only create UK jobs, but a higher BOP for finished products, rather than raw ingredients. The only real downside seems to be an extra hour or two for less time limited things, like animal carcasses - which I suppose might slightly add to the cost.

I'd like to see a breakdown of UK agricultural exports, if anyone knows of one? 

UK, home of mad cow disease, TB badger culls and foot and mouth outbreaks - yes I’m sure a cursory glance at our exports will be sufficient

[Riedquat]

1 minute ago, PeanutButter said:

UK, home of mad cow disease, TB badger culls and foot and mouth outbreaks - yes I’m sure a cursory glance at our exports will be sufficient

I may be wrong on this but I believe the UK is vulnerable to foot and mouth outbreaks because we normally manage to keep it out of the country and thus don't vaccinate, which increase export opportunities.

[Bruce Banner]

15 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

It stands for Theresa May trying to look like she's doing something.

At the moment she's busy trying to twist Corbyn's muttered "stupid woman" as a misogynistic attack against all women, everywhere . 

[grasshopper]

1 hour ago, Riedquat said:

Ditto. Certainly the path we were on wasn't offering any vision of any appeal.

But the political circumstances prior to the referendum had already  given rise to a more radical alternative being offered to the people in a GE. Either, via the Labour Party or UKIP depending on your point of view.

And if UKIP had formed a new government and negotiated the Brexit deal at least they would have had ownership of a policy decision that they believe in and would carry the political responsibility for.

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by grasshopper

[Errol]

Just a reminder. The result wasn't close - England and Wales voted for Brexit 53.3% to 46.7%. Scotland can leave the Union if it likes.

We absolutely must leave for democracy to stand any chance of survival in this country. A further referendum can be held in another generation, after we have been outside the EU for 25-30 years.

[rollover]

8 minutes ago, Errol said:

Just a reminder. The result wasn't close - England and Wales voted for Brexit 53.3% to 46.7%. Scotland can leave the Union if it likes.

We absolutely must leave for democracy to stand any chance of survival in this country. A further referendum can be held in another generation, after we have been outside the EU for 25-30 years.

I understand where you are coming from, but whose democracy are you stand for?

[IMHAL]

1 hour ago, Riedquat said:

Ditto. Certainly the path we were on wasn't offering any vision of any appeal.

I take it we are moving to 'managed no vision'.... as is the current fashion.

[grasshopper]

9 minutes ago, Errol said:

Just a reminder. The result wasn't close - England and Wales voted for Brexit 53.3% to 46.7%. Scotland can leave the Union if it likes.

We absolutely must leave for democracy to stand any chance of survival in this country. A further referendum can be held in another generation, after we have been outside the EU for 25-30 years.

The elected government carries the overall  responsibility for the social, health and economic well being of the whole of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

And Scotland cannot simply leave if it wants. The referendum result has divided, families, friends, regions and the counties that make up the UK. This is not a good way to govern.

[rollover]

22 minutes ago, grasshopper said:

But the political circumstances prior to the referendum had already  given rise to a more radical alternative being offered to the people in a GE. Either, via the Labour Party or UKIP depending on your point of view.

And if UKIP had formed a new government and negotiatd the Brexit deal at least they would have had ownership of a policy decision that they believe in and would carry the political responsibility for.

 

Very good point!

Tories own it all now the Brexit deal, the policy decision and the political responsibility for it.

[tomandlu]

25 minutes ago, Errol said:

Just a reminder. The result wasn't close - England and Wales voted for Brexit 53.3% to 46.7%. Scotland can leave the Union if it likes.

We absolutely must leave for democracy to stand any chance of survival in this country. A further referendum can be held in another generation, after we have been outside the EU for 25-30 years.

In retrospect (but the PTB thought Remain would win), a second ref. should have been explicit - first a vote on whether to leave via a negotiated deal (i.e. a preference for leaving in principle), and then a vote as to whether to accept the deal or remain (i.e. a preference for leaving in practice, given the terms of the available deal).

[GrizzlyDave]

1 hour ago, Bruce Banner said:

At the moment she's busy trying to twist Corbyn's muttered "stupid woman" as a misogynistic attack against all women, everywhere . 

I’ve reviewed the footage and he quite clearly says;

’stupid remainer’.

 

[IMHAL]

20 minutes ago, Errol said:

Just a reminder. The result wasn't close - England and Wales voted for Brexit 53.3% to 46.7%. Scotland can leave the Union if it likes.

We absolutely must leave for democracy to stand any chance of survival in this country. A further referendum can be held in another generation, after we have been outside the EU for 25-30 years.

The result appears to not be even valid. If this was democracy then it would be plain what version of Brexit should be enacted.... it appears that no version can find a majority...... it's even worse than that..... Remain would clearly trounce any version of Brexit ..... kind of a wierd democracy don'cha think?....albeit one that the democracy flag waving nationalist loones are happy to carp on about.

It must be just sour grapes from me....after all.... Brexit appears to have invigorated those imaginistas into creating a bright new future for us and Albion.....which... when it is articulated, we can judge on it's merit, preferably without the rainbows and unicorns this time .

[grasshopper]

13 minutes ago, tomandlu said:

In retrospect (but the PTB thought Remain would win), a second ref. should have been explicit - first a vote on whether to leave via a negotiated deal (i.e. a preference for leaving in principle), and then a vote as to whether to accept the deal or remain (i.e. a preference for leaving in practice, given the terms of the available deal).

Yep. The responsibility for this mess lies firmly within the senior leadership of the Conservative Party.

[PeanutButter]

5 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

It must be just sour grapes from me....after all.... Brexit appears to have invigorated those imaginistas into creating a bright new future for us and Albion.....which... when it is articulated, we can judge on it's merit, preferably without the rainbows and unicorns this time .

I for one welcome our future Michelin-starred Bognor Regis restaurants (preferred currency US$), easily accessed via our high speed bullet train network linking the skyscrapers of Skegness with the pristine beauty of our freshly burned grouse moors.

[IMHAL]

12 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

I for one welcome our future Michelin-starred Bognor Regis restaurants (preferred currency US$), easily accessed via our high speed bullet train network linking the skyscrapers of Skegness with the pristine beauty of our freshly burned grouse moors.

It's always jam tomorrow. Hope, the future, vision, blah blah blah. No plan, No reality, No Chance.

Some really stupid leavers are happy with a few time limited interim deals, it shows you the totality of their ambition........sad buggers. They will be eating crumbs thrown from their new masters table.. and they'll paint it feasting like kings. Stupid is as stupid does.

[pig]

3 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

The people have changed their minds, not much doubt about that.

Never mind, "Brexit means Brexit and must be delivered" as per the wishes of the people before, for whatever reason, they changed their minds.

I'm not even sure its fair to say that - 'new' information came in, false information evaporated, they applied the same judgement and outlook to the question.

[ebull]

24 minutes ago, tomandlu said:

In retrospect (but the PTB thought Remain would win), a second ref. should have been explicit - first a vote on whether to leave via a negotiated deal (i.e. a preference for leaving in principle), and then a vote as to whether to accept the deal or remain (i.e. a preference for leaving in practice, given the terms of the available deal).

Complete non-democratic nonsense.

A second vote now is fine.

Leave vs Remain has already been decided in ref1

ref2 choice would be Teresas [terrible] Deal vs Managed No Deal == Clean Break.

What you propose is loony. Logic dictates it would lead to ref3, ref4 and ref infinity.

Uncertainty [led by and caused by bremoniacs] is killing the UK right now.  Time to move on. Alternative is the anarchy riots.

ETA: moving on [my preference is clean break] would kill uncertainty and allow UK to prosper long term [few years] and is my choice. 

ETA2: As announced yesterday after leaving FOM will be stopped for feckless scroungers but opportunities increased for those further afield - all those great commonwealth nations who view us still as the motherland - who want to work to make us more prosperous and free.

Edited December 20, 2018 by ebull

[Errol]

Finally someone saying something sensible. I still think we should have just outsourced all Brexit negotiations to him. The EC cretins would have been sent packing.

 

Vladimir Putin tells Theresa May to 'fulfil will of people' on Brexit

Vladimir Putin has said the UK should not hold a second referendum on Brexit, insisting Theresa May must “fulfil the will of the people”.

“The referendum was held,” the Russian president said from Moscow during a press conference shown on national television. “What can she do? She has to fulfil the will of the people expressed in the referendum.”

Putin went on to criticise the idea of a second referendum or “people’s vote”, which could offer the possibility of Britain staying in the EU.

“Was it not a referendum?” he said. “Someone disliked the result, so repeat it over and over? Is this democracy? What then would be the point of the referendum in the first place?”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/20/vladimir-putin-theresa-may-brexit-fulfil-will-of-the-people

[Errol]

2 minutes ago, ebull said:

A second vote now is fine.

Leave vs Remain has already been decided in ref1

ref2 choice would be Teresas [terrible] Deal vs Managed No Deal == Clean Break.

This is the only referendum which would be acceptable. We have already decided to leave, so a referendum could be held on leaving with May's deal or leaving with no deal. There would no other options.

[simvastatin]

5 minutes ago, Errol said:

Finally someone saying something sensible. I still think we should have just outsourced all Brexit negotiations to him. The EC cretins would have been sent packing.

 

Vladimir Putin tells Theresa May to 'fulfil will of people' on Brexit

Vladimir Putin has said the UK should not hold a second referendum on Brexit, insisting Theresa May must “fulfil the will of the people”.

“The referendum was held,” the Russian president said from Moscow during a press conference shown on national television. “What can she do? She has to fulfil the will of the people expressed in the referendum.”

Putin went on to criticise the idea of a second referendum or “people’s vote”, which could offer the possibility of Britain staying in the EU.

“Was it not a referendum?” he said. “Someone disliked the result, so repeat it over and over? Is this democracy? What then would be the point of the referendum in the first place?”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/20/vladimir-putin-theresa-may-brexit-fulfil-will-of-the-people

I would not like to play chess against him.

[grasshopper]

6 minutes ago, Errol said:

Finally someone saying something sensible. I still think we should have just outsourced all Brexit negotiations to him. The EC cretins would have been sent packing.

 

Vladimir Putin tells Theresa May to 'fulfil will of people' on Brexit

Vladimir Putin has said the UK should not hold a second referendum on Brexit, insisting Theresa May must “fulfil the will of the people”.

“The referendum was held,” the Russian president said from Moscow during a press conference shown on national television. “What can she do? She has to fulfil the will of the people expressed in the referendum.”

Putin went on to criticise the idea of a second referendum or “people’s vote”, which could offer the possibility of Britain staying in the EU.

“Was it not a referendum?” he said. “Someone disliked the result, so repeat it over and over? Is this democracy? What then would be the point of the referendum in the first place?”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/20/vladimir-putin-theresa-may-brexit-fulfil-will-of-the-people

He has a vested interest in destabilising the EU so his statement will be of no surprise to both you and I and others. 

[pig]

15 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

No deal is turning into lots of amicable mini deals; looks alright doesn’t it?

We might even do well outside the EU - imagine that!

Lol oh god is this what we are now - some dell boy, clinging to a post-empire blanket, begging for scraps in a world shaped by others ?