Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[ccc]

The basics are we are in an organisation and we are planning not to be in that organisation within 2 years. That's about as simple as simple can possibly get.

Yes of course there is a whole raft of detail below that - nobody would argue otherwise - but it's still - at a high level - an incredibly simple thing we are doing.

[Timak]

The basics are we are in an organisation and we are planning not to be in that organisation within 2 years. That's about as simple as simple can possibly get.

Yes of course there is a whole raft of detail below that - nobody would argue otherwise - but it's still - at a high level - an incredibly simple thing we are doing.

But there must be red lines - what are they?

Who decides?

If we end up with broadly the same arrangements as now, we just aren't in the EU, is that really going to be accepted?

[Timak]

One question I have is that if we 'are in' the single market, does that mean we keep all the red tape too? Or does the Norway option simply mean "access to" the single market?

It is starting to look like a lot of the major complaints can only be solved by going down the full out route whcih the City will not be happy about/will fight.

As far as I'm aware single market access means following single market rules.

The only difference is you are free from European Court and Human rights overrules.

[ccc]

Who decides ? I assume whatever team is put in place to oversee this.

[VeryMeanReversion]

I think that this is the typical attitude of a Leaver. Nothing to lose. We just want change. Stop immigration. Don't bother to think it through too much, certainly not the consequences in case you heed hurts.

Sure its not difficult to negotiate our way out if you want to commit economic suicide that is - that's why the government are scrambling to get the best brains on board to get us out of this unholy mess.

Some people will not understand they are up S@@t creek until they are personally impacted - that will happen soon enough.

Welcome to the new Britain - sorry, soon to be Little England and Tiny Appendage Wales.

Its been years since I've bothered to put someone on ignore. You just made the list.

[IMHAL]

Its been years since I've bothered to put someone on ignore. You just made the list.

Did I hit a sore point?

[R K]

Sam Coates Times Verified account ‏@SamCoatesTimes

I'm told Boris Johnson has made clear to Tory right he WILL end EU free movement after Telegraph column y'day angered ppl.

Assuming he gets the gig.

[Timak]

Sam Coates Times Verified account ‏@SamCoatesTimes

I'm told Boris Johnson has made clear to Tory right he WILL end EU free movement after Telegraph column y'day angered ppl.

Assuming he gets the gig.

Well he aint going to get that AND the passport for the City.

So will he be believed?

[slawek]

Sam Coates Times Verified account ‏@SamCoatesTimes

I'm told Boris Johnson has made clear to Tory right he WILL end EU free movement after Telegraph column y'day angered ppl.

Assuming he gets the gig.

As expected he tried to wiggled out of the promises but vigilant Leavers are not asleep.

[IMHAL]

Sam Coates Times Verified account ‏@SamCoatesTimes

I'm told Boris Johnson has made clear to Tory right he WILL end EU free movement after Telegraph column y'day angered ppl.

Assuming he gets the gig.

Thanks interesting - Same as Timak - only way he will get that is if he gives up on Free trade incl financial passport'ing. Could be a negotiating ploy - a dangerous one on his behalf.

Quite frankly the Leavers are all over the place. Ask 10 of em what they want and you get 11 different answers.

[spunko2010]

Not really. It's quite simple what the average Leaver wants, indeed probably the majority:

1. Repeal of the 1972 European Communities Act.

2. Enactment of Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty.

3. The putting in place of a points based immigration system.

4. The negotiation of bi-lateral trade agreements with our trading partners.

[Errol]

Points based immigration is essential. Non-negotiable for most who voted leave. Absolute and total sovereignty for Great Britain is the main point though.

[IMHAL]

Not really. It's quite simple what the average Leaver wants, indeed probably the majority:

1. Repeal of the 1972 European Communities Act.

2. Enactment of Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty.

3. The putting in place of a points based immigration system.

4. The negotiation of bi-lateral trade agreements with our trading partners.

Interesting - I doubt many of them know about the ECA. Most only heard of Article 50 after the referendum. I think on point 3 you will have more consensus, but still quite a divergence of opinions and it is far more nuanced than you make out (eg what about those who are already here and have been for some time, when Scotland leave and leave they will what then?). Point 4 most people have been told we can have point three and point 4 - but that is not the case is it.

So - I doubt that what you have listed is what is widely understood. The question is what is the mandate? Because it is easy peezy to get out and shut the borders but is that really what people had in mind when they voted?

[GreenDevil]

I would add

5. Kicking scotland out of the union back into the EU. Or just getting rid of the two rotten fish would suffice.

[Saving For a Space Ship]

We aren't going to leave.

There will be late fudge and another referendum to consider the newly invented 'reforms'.

The elites don't want to end the status quo but know they have to make some concessions to the little people, before asking them to vote again. On the GB side most MPs know that any bone thrown to the plebs will have to have sufficient flesh on it; else they risk seats falling to UKIP.

The bone will come, I'm sure, otherwise they have no excuse for a re-run.

A Telegraph article said this would constitute a coup

Next?

The 'referendum' result will be ignored as leaving the EU will in no way, shape or form be in this country's interests.

I read an article today saying the IRA were started for much less of a reason. Riots would just be the start IMO

Whereas Richard Branson says today: "I met with a group of Chinese businessmen yesterday morning who have invested heavily in England and who are now going to stop investing and withdraw investments they’ve already made.”

I think he'll know better.

Had they paid a £2k deposit for a Battersea Flat ? (see my sig)

The protests on the street will force their hand and failing that, they'll be out at the next GE and unelectable for a generation.

[Royw6]

Sam Coates Times Verified account ‏@SamCoatesTimes

I'm told Boris Johnson has made clear to Tory right he WILL end EU free movement after Telegraph column y'day angered ppl.

Assuming he gets the gig.

he is a dick isn't he, still he is the voice of the leavers and they won so must be followed!

[OnionTerror]

We already use a points based system for non EU migrants...that number isn't exactly in the tens of thousands..

[shindigger]

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/28/farage-slams-tory-establishment-backtracking-referendum-open-borders/

[IMHAL]

Points based immigration is essential. Non-negotiable for most who voted leave. Absolute and total sovereignty for Great Britain is the main point though.

In which case we must accept the lowest common denominator of trade agreement with Europe and be prepared to lose our financial centre.

I do not believe that the above was voted on in this referendum - in fact it is not clear just what was? Because if we take all the promises made by the leavers eg to spend an extra £250 million a week on the NHS then it becomes obvious that all the promises cannot be fulfilled and maybe people voted leave because of the 'promised' extra spend on the NHS - it is not clear what they voted for is it?.

[Timak]

In which case we must accept the lowest common denominator of trade agreement with Europe and be prepared to lose our financial centre.

I do not believe that the above was voted on in this referendum - in fact it is not clear just what was? Because if we take all the promises made by the leavers eg to spend an extra £250 million a week on the NHS then it becomes obvious that all the promises cannot be fulfilled and maybe people voted leave because of the 'promised' extra spend on the NHS - it is not clear what they voted for is it?.

Come on, don't lie.

It was £350m.

[South Lorne]

In which case we must accept the lowest common denominator of trade agreement with Europe and be prepared to lose our financial centre.

I do not believe that the above was voted on in this referendum - in fact it is not clear just what was? Because if we take all the promises made by the leavers eg to spend an extra £250 million a week on the NHS then it becomes obvious that all the promises cannot be fulfilled and maybe people voted leave because of the 'promised' extra spend on the NHS - it is not clear what they voted for is it?.

...they can't tell us to lose our financial centre ....when they probably don't have one that's fit for purpose.......we need to be as far out as possible...no half way houses for a bunch of sharks......

[IMHAL]

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/28/farage-slams-tory-establishment-backtracking-referendum-open-borders/

So - how can you have a clear mandate when the so called 'leaders' of the vote Leave camp cannot agree what Leave means!!!!

What did the people actually vote for??????

I don't think I'll have a problem getting my 11 opinions out of 10 Leavers.

Seriously tho - the Leave camp have won - no problems with that. So there should now be an election to vote in which deliverable flavour of leave that people want. Because the question has not been settled as far as a mandate goes and people are still at odds with what it really means.

[wonderpup]

Anyone spot the weird logic fail in the position of many of the remain supporters re climate change and immigration? 'We must remain in the EU to fight climate change together' they insisted- but seem perfectly at ease with the idea of unlimited inward migration to the UK- sadly these two positions are mutualy exclusive- here's why;

Take the climate change issue- at it's root climate change is about the impossibility of everyone on the planet enjoying the same standard of living we do in the 'developed' world. It's basicaly a resource issue- if everyone in China and India want a fridge and a car then the end result is the destruction of the global ecosystem as pollution levels go-literally- sky high. So the climate change lobby are in the business of arguing the planet is not a infinite resource that can be exploited for ever- there must be a limit to how many cars/fridges/ or even people the planet can support- fair enough- who can argue with this simple logic?

However when it comes to that smaller aspect of the global ecosystem- the British Isles- suddenly all this highly developed sensitivity to the limits of resources is nowhere to be seen- incredibly the same people who argue the case for a finite planet also claim that anyone who applies exactly the same resource argument to the number of people who can reasonably be expected to live in the UK are- by their definition- racists.

So while they can clearly see that on a global level resources are finite they apprantly cannot apply their own insight to the UK in terms of the number of people our infrastructure can safely and comfortably support.

Indeed- to be consistent the more sanctimonious among the remain side- those who are making the most noise about being 'cheated' of their golden future inside the EU- should be arguing for the right for anyone in the world to come to live and work in the UK since any attempt to prevent them from doing so would be a racist act.

But I suspect if you put this arguement to even the most vorciferous pro EU campaigner- that the UK should extend to anyone in the world the right to come to the UK to live and work- they would probably not agree because they could see the absurdity of throwing open our borders to literally everyone on the planet- they would-I suspect- argue that this right should only be extended to citizens of the EU.

At this point you would be entitled to point out that this policy discriminates against people who are not citizens of the EU and would have every right at this point to call them a racist- a charge they could only agree was in fact correct- at least correct according to their own definition as to what constitutes a racist.

So the next time someone accuses you of being a racist for voting leave ask them if they favour giving everyone on the planet the right to live and work in the UK- if they say no then you can point out that this makes them a racist too.

Edited June 28, 2016 by wonderpup

[IMHAL]

Come on, don't lie.

It was £350m.

Sorry - my bad.

[spunko2010]

Interesting - I doubt many of them know about the ECA. Most only heard of Article 50 after the referendum. I think on point 3 you will have more consensus, but still quite a divergence of opinions and it is far more nuanced than you make out (eg what about those who are already here and have been for some time, when Scotland leave and leave they will what then?). Point 4 most people have been told we can have point three and point 4 - but that is not the case is it.

So - I doubt that what you have listed is what is widely understood. The question is what is the mandate? Because it is easy peezy to get out and shut the borders but is that really what people had in mind when they voted?

You sound a bit taken aback that a Leaver actually answered your rhetorical question It's probably not widely understood, but that's an irrelevance anyway. I'm not going to get into the semantics of it we cannot ratify all of those points, I'm sure we can, but let's wait and see as the slippery Remoaners will try to block anything.

Agree about getting rid of Krankie - although bizarrely there hasn't been any opinion from Leavers in Scotland aired on the Vile BBC, I hear she's deeply unpopular with at least 40% of the Scots, roughly similar to how many voted to Leave.

Edited June 28, 2016 by spunko2010