OnionTerror Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, cashinmattress said: TM need's another fall guy? With the draft agreement now in hand isn't his role already obsolete? We've got the civil service to carry out the legislation. Apparently he'll be planning for no deal.. Edited November 16, 2018 by Dave Beans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 1 hour ago, highYield said: This has been extensively discussed on this thread before. The conclusion was that GDP is not comparable with membership tithes. The conclusion was to that to estimate it's effect on the EU finances you propably need to multiply it by 2. So it actually represents 2 x the square root of f all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, thehowler said: And who are they? Think I'm about the only poster who (just about) backs the deal, and even I'd like to see the joint committee/backstop exit stuff improved. You've run out of people to harangue. I think that sadly it may be the least worst option I also think that it will pass as the ERG is a busted flush. After Moggs attempt to lead his troops into battle failed, or at least has taken so long to bear fruit that his credibilty as the leader of an 80 strong band has gone. In addition the WA is so close to what Labour say they want that I think many of their MPs will vote for it. Edited November 16, 2018 by Confusion of VIs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: I think that sadly it may be the least worst option I also think that it will pass as the ERG is a busted flush, after Moggs attempt to lead his troops into battle failed, or at least taken so long to bear fruit that his credibilty as the leader of an 80 strong band has gone. In addition the WA is so close to what Labour say they want that I think many of their MPs will vote for it. Outside the transition, the UK will be outside the single market (as a third country), but still inside the customs union... Edited November 16, 2018 by Dave Beans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 21 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: Apparently he'll be planning for no deal.. Sounds like he's almost officially a ceremonial figurehead: Quote No deal would never happen in reality - the UK government would just ask the EU to extend the deadline of the current relationship. It would make more sense to be tasked with scoping out the detail of going for EFTA or Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, Dorkins said: Sounds like he's almost officially a ceremonial figurehead: No deal would never happen in reality - the UK government would just ask the EU to extend the deadline of the current relationship. It would make more sense to be tasked with scoping out the detail of going for EFTA or Canada. It depended if the EU asked for extra concessions if it were ever to be extended..CETA is not much better than WTO anyway.. Edited November 16, 2018 by Dave Beans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 49 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: The conclusion was to that to estimate it's effect on the EU finances you propably need to multiply it by 2. So it actually represents 2 x the square root of f all. Yes, the conclusion was that GDP is not comparable with membership tithes. I'm all in favour of paying your pension, as we agreed to do that - but there must be a cut off point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, highYield said: Yes, the conclusion was that GDP is not comparable with membership tithes. I'm all in favour of paying your pension, as we agreed to do that - but there must be a cut off point. What for just my pension? Pension commitments can go on for a surprisingly long time. Eg the last American civil war pension was still being paid after 2000. We could get a clean break from our pension payments and other liabilities but that would be expensivesive. Better to let them expire naturally, probably around 2100 (like the transition period) Edited November 16, 2018 by Confusion of VIs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 10 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: What for just my pension? Pension commitments can go on for a surprisingly long time. Eg the last American civil war pension was still being paid after 2000. We could get a clean break from our pension payments and other liabilities but that would be expensivesive. Better to let them expire naturally, probably around 2100 (like the transition period) I strongly believe that we should pay your pension contributions, as we should hand over the freedom payment to the EU. We agreed to do that, and our word is our bond - in the long term scheme of things, the BoE printed magick money is pretty insignificant - we need to move forwards, whilst preserving our word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 16 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: What for just my pension? Pension commitments can go on for a surprisingly long time. Eg the last American civil war pension was still being paid after 2000. We could get a clean break from our pension payments and other liabilities but that would be expensivesive. Better to let them expire naturally, probably around 2100 (like the transition period) I was gonna call BS on that one... but it’s true! https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2017/08/24/one-n-c-woman-still-receiving-civil-war-pension/594982001/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 We all need a nurse made when we get old. Some of us also need help to avoid choosing shoes of two different colours... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 12 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: We all need a nurse made when we get old. Some of us also need help to avoid choosing shoes of two different colours... One on right foot is brown, left foot black? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 10 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: We all need a nurse made when we get old. Some of us also need help to avoid choosing shoes of two different colours... Isn't it super awesome that we have representative politicians such as the tax dodging Luxembourgish Jean-Claude Juncker to represent us? I can't help a shiver of joy when I know that Glenys Elizabeth Kinnock, Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead, truely has my interests at heart. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Having given it some thought I support the WIthdrawl Agreement. There’s a lot I don’t like about it. But I like it a shit load better than remain. And I can see a positive final outcome (future arrangement) that is largely positive. Howler - you helped me reshape my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: Having given it some thought I support the WIthdrawl Agreement. There’s a lot I don’t like about it. But I like it a shit load better than remain. And I can see a positive final outcome (future arrangement) that is largely positive. Howler - you helped me reshape my opinion. ...Take it or leave it... https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/16/brexit-deal-take-it-or-leave-it-eu-tells-britain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 On 15/11/2018 at 16:32, Roman Roady said: the world is turning away from Globalization now (various statements on the under estimated consequences of global warming). Local-ism will be the way forward in a low carbon environment. We will have to get used to seasonal produce and the more exotic food stuffs will be a thing of the past. Wave goodbye to the smashed Avocado on toast! Therefore I think that the UK is actually leading the way by removing itself from the faceless superstate bureaucracies like the ...ehmm...EU. I will take you any amount of real money that this turns out to be completely false. Obviously taking a real bet online is silly but there is no other way to convey just how certain I am that you are 100% incorrect about what brexit is about. The world has been "globalising" (this just means trading with people further away from your village) for millennia. It's definitely not stopping now. And people are also just completely wrong about what it means. What might happen is that technology helps micro communities to become more self sufficient, and I hope that is the case, but that is 100% not what brexit is about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 1 minute ago, GrizzlyDave said: Having given it some thought I support the WIthdrawl Agreement. There’s a lot I don’t like about it. But I like it a shit load better than remain. And I can see a positive final outcome (future arrangement) that is largely positive. Howler - you helped me reshape my opinion. The only thing that matters - imo - wrt a withdrawal agreement is an agreement that enables us to withdraw unilaterally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 1 minute ago, highYield said: The only thing that matters - imo - wrt a withdrawal agreement is an agreement that enables us to withdraw unilaterally. We can always do that HY. As a sovereign nation we can just walk out the door. But that is a nuclear option as it blows up relationships and good will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: We can always do that HY. As a sovereign nation we can just walk out the door. But that is a nuclear option as it blows up relationships and good will. So sign it, knowing that we may well break it, and deal with the outfall from the EU, and perhaps suffer big hits in good will from other countries, who are looking to do FTAs with us, or no deal.... Edited November 16, 2018 by Dave Beans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Roady Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 14 minutes ago, dugsbody said: I will take you any amount of real money that this turns out to be completely false. Obviously taking a real bet online is silly but there is no other way to convey just how certain I am that you are 100% incorrect about what brexit is about. The world has been "globalising" (this just means trading with people further away from your village) for millennia. It's definitely not stopping now. And people are also just completely wrong about what it means. What might happen is that technology helps micro communities to become more self sufficient, and I hope that is the case, but that is 100% not what brexit is about. I know that brexit was not about globalisation, Jo Blow who voted for brexit wasnt really against globalisation, however i maintain they were protesting against many of the effects of it with their first meaningful vote in a generation. IMPO Brexit was about voters justifiable anger about many things that globalisation has bought us over the past 40 years...what Prof Mark Blyth calls "Trumpism". The point that i was trying to make is that the process you mention that has been going on for millennia has to come to an end. If we are to reduce global warming DRASTICALLY, then we have to reduce CO2 emissions drastically. We cant continue eat food/use products produced half a world away any more. I was proposing that the UK may be the first to reverse this process by turning (if forcibly) to localism. This will be painful in the short to medium term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: So sign it, knowing that we may well break it, and deal with the outfall from the EU, and perhaps suffer big hits in good will from other countries, who are looking to do FTAs with us, or no deal.... If it comes to it; yes. I can’t imagine the circumstances but clearly the UK would be wanting to leave, but prevented from doing so by the EU. Maybe the EU is in GFC2 and needed us but they were pulling us down. We pull out the knife, cut the cord, and let them float away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 (edited) What do you think about PM? Will she stay or will she go? Edited November 16, 2018 by rollover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: If it comes to it; yes. I can’t imagine the circumstances but clearly the UK would be wanting to leave, but prevented from doing so by the EU. Maybe the EU is in GFC2 and needed us but they were pulling us down. We pull out the knife, cut the cord, and let them float away. The problem is that we will have to deal with them one way or another, seeing as they're twenty miles off our coast..then the US/NAFTA will come sniffing and become a vassal state of the US, which is what exactly the likes of David Davis want.. Edited November 16, 2018 by Dave Beans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: The problem is that we will have to deal with them one way or another, seeing as they're twenty miles off our coast..then the US/NAFTA will come sniffing and become a vassal state of the US, which is what exactly the likes of David Davis want.. I get that DB. It’s a nuclear option for sure. It would only be done in the most extreme of circumstances... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: I get that DB. It’s a nuclear option for sure. It would only be done in the most extreme of circumstances... ...but we know the terms before we sign it...Therefore if we reject it, perhaps we should go to a "controlled" no deal, and we come up with something else afterwards..The mood will be different after the event.. Edited November 16, 2018 by Dave Beans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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