thehowler Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: We rejected all the better options, so are now left with the shite. The WA is not a finished document - no date on transition extension for instance. I think the EU/27 are still expecting they'll have to move further. If it's voted down in the HoC that will focus minds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 22 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: Nothing wrong about having the argument after we’ve left, moreover remain did a pisspoor job of convincing the people during the referendum, by making it purely economic. For most leavers, it goes beyond economic reasons. However we are leaving, and that still hasn’t sunk in to many. If there were ever a second referendum, it should be “how we should leave” not should we leave. May's deal is not leaving, it is can kicking with no clearer exit at the end of the "transition" than we have now. Two years downstream we will face the same question do we want to leave or not. How people's views will change in the meantime is anyone's guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Confusion of VIs said: May's deal is not leaving, it is can kicking with no clearer exit at the end of the "transition" than we have now. Two years downstream we will face the same question do we want to leave or not. How people's views will change in the meantime is anyone's guess Will we be a third country? Will will be subject to ever closer union? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wish I could afford one Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Confusion of VIs said: May's deal is not leaving, it is can kicking with no clearer exit at the end of the "transition" than we have now. Two years downstream we will face the same question do we want to leave or not. How people's views will change in the meantime is anyone's guess I guess it gives this thread a chance of making it to 5,000 pages... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 She should have listened to Trump! "We're leaving in April, if you want to trade with us after that, we're happy to listen" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 12 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: I’m an engineer - defence is fascinating to me - as is the pursuit of freedom and liberty and egality. That often comes from the barrel of a gun, and you need the strength to use force or stand as a witness to atrocity. But it is Macron and Merkel calling for an EU army. To defend against China, Russia, and America. Seriously, WTF America. America liberated France and rebuilt Germany. It’s astounding what is being said. Truly astounding. Astounding that you have picked up on Trump's interpretation of what Macron said. He was talking about the need to defend against America's unreliability as a partner not defend against America. The logic for an EU army (I think it was actually a European not EU army, and we have already expressed an interest in participating in some aspects of it) is that jointly we currently outspend Russia on defence by a factor of 3 but have vastly inferior armed forces owing to duplication of effort and featherbedding of national defence firms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 7 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: Will we be a third country? Will will be subject to ever closer union? I thought we cannot legally be a third country and retain access to all of the EU's. Why would we be subject to ever closer union? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Just now, Confusion of VIs said: I thought we cannot legally be a third country and retain access to all of the EU's. Why would we be subject to ever closer union? You said we aren't leaving... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slawek Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: I’m an engineer - defence is fascinating to me - as is the pursuit of freedom and liberty and egality. That often comes from the barrel of a gun, and you need the strength to use force or stand as a witness to atrocity. But it is Macron and Merkel calling for an EU army. To defend against China, Russia, and America. Seriously, WTF America. America liberated France and rebuilt Germany. It’s astounding what is being said. Truly astounding. It is a dangerous fascination, weapons are not toys but machines designed to kill. You should have had spent some time in WW1 trenches to cure you. You have a very strange idea of the freedom, you want barricade yourself from the rest of the world and taking hostage 35mln people. Just because of your nostalgic love of the world, which you feel disappears. What they propose is not against US, it is more because of the US as they don't think US is a reliable partner. Trump is just insane. As I said there should be no US, China, Russia, Europe etc, just us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 This is an amazing deal for NI...all the perks. Sturgeon will be fuming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 A cautious OK from Henig...promising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 7 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Astounding that you have picked up on Trump's interpretation of what Macron said. He was talking about the need to defend against America's unreliability as a partner not defend against America. The logic for an EU army (I think it was actually a European not EU army, and we have already expressed an interest in participating in some aspects of it) is that jointly we currently outspend Russia on defence by a factor of 3 but have vastly inferior armed forces owing to duplication of effort and featherbedding of national defence firms. Perhaps Macron should have been a bit clearer... “We have to protect ourselves with respect to China, Russia and even the United States of America” 3 minutes ago, slawek said: It is a dangerous fascination, weapons are not toys but machines designed to kill. You should have had spent some time in WW1 trenches to cure you. You have a very strange idea of the freedom, you want barricade yourself from the rest of the world and taking hostage 35mln people. Just because of your nostalgic love of the world, which you feel disappears. What they propose is not against US, it is more because of the US as they don't think US is a reliable partner. Trump is just insane. As I said there should be no US, China, Russia, Europe etc, just us. You know nothing Jon Snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 19 minutes ago, thehowler said: The WA is not a finished document - no date on transition extension for instance. I think the EU/27 are still expecting they'll have to move further. If it's voted down in the HoC that will focus minds. I suspect you won't get a hard date on the transition extension, it would be just another opportunity for failure. Not sure about the EU moving more. If the gossip is correct they have already said that they will not grant an A50 extension to carry on talking, unless it is for a second referendum, and want to formally move to planning for a no deal exit if May cannot get the deal through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: 10 minutes ago, slawek said: It is a dangerous fascination, weapons are not toys but machines designed to kill. You should have had spent some time in WW1 trenches to cure you. You know nothing Jon Snow. Nobody loves peace like a soldier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btl_hater Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 44 minutes ago, slawek said: the less armies the better, less chances for a war in Europe. Ideally there should be no armies at all, hopefully we reach this at some point. GD your fascination with weapons, armies and dividing people is dangerous. You are sowing the seeds of the future wars. I was also thinking this. GD comes across as a weirdo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slawek Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 1 minute ago, GrizzlyDave said: Perhaps Macron should have been a bit clearer... “We have to protect ourselves with respect to China, Russia and even the United States of America” You know nothing Jon Snow. You know even less, stuck in your archaic, we vs them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayward Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 11 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Astounding that you have picked up on Trump's interpretation of what Macron said. He was talking about the need to defend against America's unreliability as a partner not defend against America. The logic for an EU army (I think it was actually a European not EU army, and we have already expressed an interest in participating in some aspects of it) is that jointly we currently outspend Russia on defence by a factor of 3 but have vastly inferior armed forces owing to duplication of effort and featherbedding of national defence firms. Unreliable partner....??? because the Europeans have taken advantage and taken for granted US protection for decades whilst underfunding on their own defence and instead funding generous welfare programmes that US tax payers can only dream of...little wonder the US are sick of it and raising concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Brexiters wanted the Brexit deal, voted for it. And now when May finally deliver it they are still moaning. What the aculay want now and what are they unhappy with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smash Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, rollover said: Brexiters wanted the Brexit deal, voted for it. And now when May finally deliver it they are still moaning. What the aculay want now and what are they unhappy with? They are unhappy with their overdrawn expectations. The responsibility is on them for holding those along with the propagandists who sold them the undeliverable (self/other) deception. Fvck 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, slawek said: You know even less, stuck in your archaic, we vs them. "making mock of uniforms that guard you while you sleep" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HovelinHove Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Spot the EU illiterate trolls...laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wish I could afford one Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 16 minutes ago, thehowler said: This is an amazing deal for NI...all the perks. Sturgeon will be fuming. But the DUP don't like it - "...the party's Sammy Wilson says "it's a poor deal, a bad deal, and a deal that the prime minister said she would not accept."" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Looking through the doc I can see an opening for you, CofVIs...there will be five independent arbitrators sitting on the Joint Committee between EU/27 and UK... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, wish I could afford one said: But the DUP don't like it - "...the party's Sammy Wilson says "it's a poor deal, a bad deal, and a deal that the prime minister said she would not accept."" Some people... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, wish I could afford one said: But the DUP don't like it - "...the party's Sammy Wilson says "it's a poor deal, a bad deal, and a deal that the prime minister said she would not accept."" Not everyone will be happy with the Brexit deal, but it is the best deal May could negotiate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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