IMHAL Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 1 hour ago, copydude said: I was investigating the slave trade in Ukrainians at an egg-packing plant near Warsaw. Poles have some form in this. Sports Direct ‘slavery’ brothers jailed for trafficking ‘vulnerable’ Polish men to work in UK Wow ... good on you..... CCC take note..... there is life outside the boozer. Tell us about the laws there regarding protecting labour, and in you opinion....how effectively they are enforced? Is this sort of practise endemic? or as here (and probably most other places) the exception? Also, what is corruption like there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cock-eyed octopus Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 59 minutes ago, rollover said: And what if you miscalculated? Well, since there are too many unknowns, known & unknown :-), I'd say increase as slowly as is practicable. The obvious thing to do is to start off really, really slowly & increase the rate (slowly) until there are signs of strain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 11 hours ago, ccc said: I'm in Thailand - so well - it's not new year. You know me. Diverse and all. Respect local cultures and everything. I think new year here is in March or April. ccc was that you who did that? Quote British revellers celebrate New Year in Thai resort... by throwing punches minutes after the clock struck 12 Daily Mail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 20 minutes ago, ****-eyed octopus said: Well, since there are too many unknowns, known & unknown :-), I'd say increase as slowly as is practicable. The obvious thing to do is to start off really, really slowly & increase the rate (slowly) until there are signs of strain. If you add the know factor time, on which side the signs of strain appear? Really, really slowly could be too slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Quote EU can’t ‘cherry pick’ a free trade deal Brussels chiefs must not be allowed to ‘cherry pick’ a free trade deal that excludes the City of London and financial services, the Brexit Secretary warned last night. David Davis said the UK wants ‘the full sweep of economic cooperation’, with minimal barriers to trade and goods and services. His comments will be seen as a swipe at Mr Barnier, who has repeatedly said that Britain cannot ‘cherry pick’ the benefits it wants from the Single Market after Brexit. Daily mail Isn't David Davis to be sidelined in reshuffle? But surely the best way to achieve DD idea is to stay in the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 7 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: Really, how is an advisory referendum different to an opinion poll? Ones a referendum and the others a poll ? Are we seriously having this discussion 3 hours ago, rollover said: ccc was that you who did that? How did you know. Pretty poor story anyway - they must be needing to fill adspace over the holidays. I've seen bigger "Brawls" at a nursery over a transformer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futuroid Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 6 hours ago, rollover said: Isn't David Davis to be sidelined in reshuffle? But surely the best way to achieve DD idea is to stay in the EU. DD has to throw the Brexit faithful a bone so they can fool themselves that a negotiation between two equal partners is taking place. Aren't there rumours about The Johnson being moved into a Brexity role? That would be brilliant strategy from May... allow him to prove that what he promised is undeliverable while neutralising the threat from him as a potential replacement. Slower and more entertaining than giving him a revolver and a bottle of whisky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cock-eyed octopus Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 8 hours ago, rollover said: If you add the know factor time, on which side the signs of strain appear? Really, really slowly could be too slow. Too slow for what exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, ccc said: Ones a referendum and the others a poll ? Are we seriously having this discussion How did you know. Pretty poor story anyway - they must be needing to fill adspace over the holidays. I've seen bigger "Brawls" at a nursery over a transformer. Well they are both statistical methods of gauging opinion using a sample of the population, the only different is the way in which the results may be used. The difference between an ordinary opinion poll and the Brexit referendum becomes smaller still when you consider that by law the result of the referendum is advisory only. So all opinion polls, referenda and other such tools are by your definition conjecture, if they use less than 100% of the population as a sample, including Brexit. Nice. Edited January 2, 2018 by IMHAL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 1 minute ago, IMHAL said: Well they are both statistical methods of gauging opinion using a sample of the population, the only different is the way in which the results may be used. The difference between an ordinary opinion poll and the Brexit referendum becomes smaller still when you consider that by law the result of the referendum is advisory only. So all opinion polls, referenda and other such tools are by your definition conjecture, including Brexit. Nice. Are you still arguing this ridiculous point ? An opinion poll is to guage opinion. There is no vote for anything. No decisions are made on the outcome of said poll. A referendum is based on the outcome of the vote resulting in said decision based on the result of said vote. Not trying to be insulting here - bit this is like explaining to 8 year olds. Even they would have got it now. And yes of course a referendum is conjecture based on the definition of the word. I never said it wasn't - did I ? That wasn't the point of this debate - was it ? You seem to be mixing up arguments here in the hope your original point slips away. You were wrong - it's fine. As I said - no big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, ccc said: Are you still arguing this ridiculous point ? An opinion poll is to guage opinion. There is no vote for anything. No decisions are made on the outcome of said poll. A referendum is based on the outcome of the vote resulting in said decision based on the result of said vote. Not trying to be insulting here - bit this is like explaining to 8 year olds. Even they would have got it now. And yes of course a referendum is conjecture based on the definition of the word. I never said it wasn't - did I ? That wasn't the point of this debate - was it ? You seem to be mixing up arguments here in the hope your original point slips away. You were wrong - it's fine. As I said - no big deal. So the results of Brexit are conjecture and we should accept that. And opinion polls that show that Leavers are more likely to be xenophobes and racists are also conjecture and we should accept that. Good. Thats settled then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, IMHAL said: So the results of Brexit are conjecture and we should accept that. And opinion polls that show that Leavers are more likely to be xenophobes and racists are also conjecture and we should accept that. Good. Thats settled then. Ones a vote - the others not. You are having great difficulty understanding this basic logic. You are also very poorly trying to skip around the fact you made a stupid point and I called you out for it. Terrible debating skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, ccc said: Ones a vote - the others not. You are having great difficulty understanding this basic logic. You are also very poorly trying to skip around the fact you made a stupid point and I called you out for it. Terrible debating skills. I think people can see through your bluster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 5 hours ago, ccc said: Ones a referendum and the others a poll ? Are we seriously having this discussion I take you from this non response you are incapable of explaining the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, IMHAL said: I think people can see through your bluster. It's your bluster that's very apparent here. You could have simply just stated you never realised that was the definition of conjecture - so yes you were wrong fair enough - but actually doesn't that mean a referendum is also conjecture too ? To which I would have responded - yes - it appears it is. And that would have been that. But no - you and others had to argue the point for 3 pages for absolutely no reason. Very telling as to your mentalities. 2 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: I take you from this non response you are incapable of explaining the difference. I have made it clear above in my reply to IMHAL. I'm sure you can read. I shall repeat again just to make it even simpler as you appear to have thinking issues today. One results in a decision the other does not. Surely this isn't difficult to understand ? I hope you are just on the wind up with this because if you actually believe the point you are making then - well - best of luck to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 49 minutes ago, ****-eyed octopus said: Too slow for what exactly? What an excellent question. I'm interested to hear the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, ccc said: It's your bluster that's very apparent here. You could have simply just stated you never realised that was the definition of conjecture - so yes you were wrong fair enough - but actually doesn't that mean a referendum is also conjecture too ? To which I would have responded - yes - it appears it is. And that would have been that. But no - you and others had to argue the point for 3 pages for absolutely no reason. Very telling as to your mentalities. I have made it clear above in my reply to IMHAL. I'm sure you can read. I shall repeat again just to make it even simpler as you appear to have thinking issues today. One results in a decision the other does not. Surely this isn't difficult to understand ? I hope you are just on the wind up with this because if you actually believe the point you are making then - well - best of luck to you. Aha.. but we would not have had an issue at all had you accepted that there was truth behind the opinion polls that pointed to racism and xenophobia in the leaver ranks. You instead rubbished the poll as 'complete conjecture'. BTW there is no such thing as complete conjecture. It either is or it is not. There is no sliding scale. So by rubbishing every opinion poll and referendum as conjecture. You infact accept nothing, including the result of Brexit, presumably. Edited January 2, 2018 by IMHAL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 6 hours ago, ccc said: Ones a referendum and the others a poll ? Are we seriously having this discussion How did you know. Pretty poor story anyway - they must be needing to fill adspace over the holidays. I've seen bigger "Brawls" at a nursery over a transformer. Did you get it in the end? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cock-eyed octopus Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, IMHAL said: Aha.. but we would not have had an issue at all had you accepted that there was truth behind the opinion polls that pointed to racism and xenophobia in the leaver ranks. You instead rubbished the poll as 'complete conjecture'. BTW there is no such thing as complete conjecture. It either is or it is not. There is no sliding scale. So by rubbishing every opinion poll and referendum as conjecture. You infact accept nothing, including the result of Brexit, presumably. So when we vote in a General Election, is that a vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, IMHAL said: Aha.. but we would not have had an issue at all had you accepted that there was truth behind the opinion polls that pointed to racism and xenophobia in the leaver ranks. You instead rubbished the poll as 'complete conjecture'. BTW there is no such thing as complete conjecture. It either is or it is not. There is no sliding scale. So by rubbishing every opinion poll and referendum as conjecture. You infact accept nothing, including the result of Brexit, presumably. Sorry - where did I "rubbish" anything ? All I pointed out was that the poll you put up was complete conjecture. Which it is. Unless you want the definition of the word changed. Let it go. You were wrong. No Biggie. And no your point above is also incorrect. You cannot say that the results of that very small poll = truth. It doesn't. End of. Stop digging. Anyway - eventually - after three pages you've made a fairly decent point to point out that the referendum is also conjecture. Fair enough. You won't find me taking three pages having a hissyfit about that. I'm a grown up me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 41 minutes ago, ccc said: Are you still arguing this ridiculous point ? An opinion poll is to guage opinion. There is no vote for anything. No decisions are made on the outcome of said poll. A referendum is based on the outcome of the vote resulting in said decision based on the result of said vote. Not trying to be insulting here - bit this is like explaining to 8 year olds. Even they would have got it now. And yes of course a referendum is conjecture based on the definition of the word. I never said it wasn't - did I ? That wasn't the point of this debate - was it ? You seem to be mixing up arguments here in the hope your original point slips away. You were wrong - it's fine. As I said - no big deal. You tried to be right again? And everyone else who do not agree with you is wrong? It's difficult to defeat someone with languorous arguments during a discussion and pretend you are right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, ****-eyed octopus said: So when we vote in a General Election, is that a vote? Apparently not. It's an opinion poll. Well what's the difference eh ?? They're all the same - didn't you know ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, ****-eyed octopus said: So when we vote in a General Election, is that a vote? No it's not. It's a token, a tranquilliser, an illusion to placate the masses while the government just continues to do what it must for its master controllers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 1 minute ago, rollover said: You tried to be right again? And everyone else who do not agree with you is wrong? It's difficult to defeat someone with languorous arguments during a discussion and pretend you are right. Unless the definition of the word conjecture has changed then I am right and IMHAL is wrong. Again - what's so difficult to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 1 minute ago, jonb2 said: No it's not. It's a token, a tranquilliser, an illusion to placate the masses while the government just continues to do what it must for its master controllers. Now whilst technically incorrect this I agree with in general Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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