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Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

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2 hours ago, dances with sheeple said:

Yep, the demographic that should have been clinging to FOM to fill their BTL`s and then hopefully for those tenants to have families and need to borrow large to fund the boomers retirement pot wrapped up in their house...........Um didn`t quite work out did it?............:lol:  Meanwhile the under 30`s can keep watching Fantasy Z-Lister on the Beach as they gaze into a rectangle all day...:lol:  People have had it with the EU....Game Over :D

Here you are sheeple - something about sheep 🙂

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/whitehall-considering-mass-slaughter-sheep-15263463

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10 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said:

I didn't say that either.

I told you what it was above, and it predates the referendum act, so supersedes it.

The challenge is that if there is any material change to our relationship with the EU, it has to be agreed by referendum.  Given leaving materially affect our relationship with the EU, there should be a referendum, that's the legal argument gong through court now.

It was brought in, by Cameron in 2011 to appease eurosceptics so any new EU laws would have to be agreed by referenda.  It's being used to challenge leaving with our a vote as it 'Materially affects our relationship both the EU.  The referendum of 2016 didn't affect it, as it was an advisory.

Leaving aside the rather strange view on what supersedes what.

We've had the referendum on materially changing our relationship with the EU !

This is desperate.

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53 minutes ago, dances with sheeple said:

I`m guessing you are under 30?

Much, much older. But my kids are about that. Should give you a clue.

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2 hours ago, dances with sheeple said:

Equating the so called populism associated with Trump/Brexit/Anti-EU in Europe votes with the far right is the sort of nonsense that led to those results in the first place, will you guys never get it? :lol:

Why?

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2 hours ago, dances with sheeple said:

:lol:  The potential fallout from what Italy is doing make those outcomes look like the Teddy Bears Picnic

http://www.ansa.it/english/news/politics/2018/10/11/italy-should-respect-eu-rules-lagarde_a958e220-0ff5-4e8d-95a1-67bca94e8d9d.html

 

Plus we are out, did you miss the vote........:lol:

Here, not there

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/10/uk-public-finances-among-weakest-in-world-imf-says

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47 minutes ago, dances with sheeple said:

I will simply ask you the question that Clegg was asked last night on Peston, repeatedly :lol: (and of course he wouldn`t answer it head on, just waffled on and on.....and on)  - The EU is in a weaker position now then when we had the vote so why would more people now vote to stay in any new referendum? (Please don`t do the European Peace/Threat from Russia/Trump Threat spiel, he already tried that :lol:)

I suppose as a politician he would have found it difficult to say around 1m (mainly Leave) voters of the 2016 electorate have now passed on and have been replaced 1m new (mainly Remain) voters.

In addition people now know there is no "have cake and eat it deal" and, no Brexit dividend to be had, and that they are voting to be poorer if they vote to Leave.  

  

 

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2 hours ago, highYield said:

If we do meaningfully leave, we'll need to plan trade for the future. Countries like Singapore, based on the same legal system, allow for even more IP & finance trade. TTP provides means to directly trade with much of the rest of North & South America without the US. The distances are a massive problem, but the UK has historically been a global trading nation, that's where our historically shaped skills lie. Never say never! There's a big hole left in TPP after the US left - we couldn't possibly fill it, but could apparently be welcomed into playing an important part in its replacement.

Once we are alone, we'll be a little fish in the shark fest

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-09/u-s-is-said-to-mull-blocking-u-k-from-global-procurement-pact

I suggest this

 

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2 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

I suppose as a politician he would have found it difficult to say around 1m (mainly Leave) voters of the 2016 electorate have now passed on and have been replaced 1m new (mainly Remain) voters.

In addition people now know there is no "have cake and eat it deal" and, no Brexit dividend to be had, and that they are voting to be poorer if they vote to Leave.  

  

 

Wasting your time CofV - the problem with leavers is they either can't remember the 70s and 80s or don't have the imagination to anticipate all the shit coming after Brexit.

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4 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

I suppose as a politician he would have found it difficult to say around 1m (mainly Leave) voters of the 2016 electorate have now passed on and have been replaced 1m new (mainly Remain) voters.

In addition people now know there is no "have cake and eat it deal" and, no Brexit dividend to be had, and that they are voting to be poorer if they vote to Leave.  

  

 

Sorry, are we in a time warp here? People HAVE already voted to leave....you just need to get over this I`m afraid. Nothing has changed since the vote to indicate that we are going to be worse off,  property/banking might take a hit yes, but this will make many people BETTER off not worse.The dire predictions of Carney and co. were laughable, everyone knows this now, and the EU electorate will have the final say, not a bunch of un-elected self-entitled clowns in Brussels, about how their individual countries interact with other countries. Brexit and the Italy V EU show must surely tell all but the most brainwashed that the game is up for the EU in it`s present form? Also do you think that with the backdrop of Italy and maybe others leaving that any meaningful number of the 1 million new voters would be thick/brainwashed enough to vote STAY in a new fantasy referendum? The thing that scares me is that many of them probably would be indoctrinated enough by the current media etc. to do so  :ph34r:

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21 minutes ago, dances with sheeple said:

Sorry, are we in a time warp here? People HAVE already voted to leave....you just need to get over this I`m afraid. Nothing has changed since the vote to indicate that we are going to be worse off,  property/banking might take a hit yes, but this will make many people BETTER off not worse.The dire predictions of Carney and co. were laughable, everyone knows this now, and the EU electorate will have the final say, not a bunch of un-elected self-entitled clowns in Brussels, about how their individual countries interact with other countries. Brexit and the Italy V EU show must surely tell all but the most brainwashed that the game is up for the EU in it`s present form? Also do you think that with the backdrop of Italy and maybe others leaving that any meaningful number of the 1 million new voters would be thick/brainwashed enough to vote STAY in a new fantasy referendum? The thing that scares me is that many of them probably would be indoctrinated enough by the current media etc. to do so  :ph34r:

Food, healthcare, education, security, welfare, jobs all fracked - meaning people will be better off???

As I said - no experience and no imagination.

 

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Road haulage companies have been forced to sign Non Disclosure Agreements so they can't talk publicly about the effects of Brexit apparently.

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33 minutes ago, dances with sheeple said:

 Nothing has changed since the vote to indicate that we are going to be worse off,  property/banking might take a hit yes, but this will make many people BETTER off not worse.

Not often do I get to pull this one out of the bookmarks...

lol.jpg

 

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6 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Food, healthcare, education, security, welfare, jobs all fracked - meaning people will be better off???

As I said - no experience and no imagination.

 

Can imagine others being "brainwashed" and "indoctrinated".

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6 minutes ago, WageWar said:

Road haulage companies have been forced to sign Non Disclosure Agreements so they can't talk publicly about the effects of Brexit apparently.

Yup, we've got bags of soveriegnty now

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-government-paranoia-over-secret-business-agreements-11290344

Disgusting government, truly not fit for purpose. Maggots.

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1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said:

I suppose as a politician he would have found it difficult to say around 1m (mainly Leave) voters of the 2016 electorate have now passed on and have been replaced 1m new (mainly Remain) voters.

In addition people now know there is no "have cake and eat it deal" and, no Brexit dividend to be had, and that they are voting to be poorer if they vote to Leave.  

  

 

logans_run_jewel.jpg

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1 hour ago, dances with sheeple said:

Sorry, are we in a time warp here? People HAVE already voted to leave....you just need to get over this I`m afraid. Nothing has changed since the vote to indicate that we are going to be worse off,  property/banking might take a hit yes, but this will make many people BETTER off not worse.The dire predictions of Carney and co. were laughable, everyone knows this now, and the EU electorate will have the final say, not a bunch of un-elected self-entitled clowns in Brussels, about how their individual countries interact with other countries. Brexit and the Italy V EU show must surely tell all but the most brainwashed that the game is up for the EU in it`s present form? Also do you think that with the backdrop of Italy and maybe others leaving that any meaningful number of the 1 million new voters would be thick/brainwashed enough to vote STAY in a new fantasy referendum? The thing that scares me is that many of them probably would be indoctrinated enough by the current media etc. to do so  :ph34r:

???  Isn't the generally accepted estimate that we have now lost +2% of GDP and the average person is around £500 worse off because of Brexit induced inflation that was not reflected in pay increases.   

Even if were right about the EU breaking up at some point in the future, why pay £40bn now and weaken the economy prior to TSHTF.  

Edit The OBR released an updated report today. More of the same project fear continues on track. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-uk-economy-office-for-budget-responsibility-no-deal-gdp-investment-inflation-a8579306.html

Edited by Confusion of VIs

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1 hour ago, jonb2 said:

Wasting your time CofV - the problem with leavers is they either can't remember the 70s and 80s or don't have the imagination to anticipate all the shit coming after Brexit.

Aye must have been tough buying a detached house for 2x an annual salary.

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5 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Aye must have been tough buying a detached house for 2x an annual salary.

Wouldn't know. I was not in a position to do it until the end of the 80s. Then I spent most of the nineties dealing with the consequences of interest rates doubling and the early 90s recession fecking my business. This was what it was like for the majority.

 

Edited by jonb2

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2 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

Clutching at straws doesn't deserve a serious answer, sorry.

It's not written in stone that all our stuff must be made in China from raw materials shipped from South America, Africa & Australia, shipped to Rotterdam, then trucked to the UK. Doesn't seem sustainable long term. If you look at a shipping map, https://www.shipmap.org or this:

shipping_map.jpg.6f457cb1edf4eb3eec360b1b1265f93f.jpg

Our natural (historical) place is physically trading with the world, especially the Americas and arguably Africa (which is close enough for Ireland to live ship cattle to, remember). The EU is more Mediterranean centred, the UK is open to many seas - the Med isn't strategically or economically much use to us, yet it's naturally the EU's focus.

edit: this is cool: https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-2.2/centery:51.6/zoom:4

Edited by highYield

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5 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Wouldn't know. I was not in a position to do it until the end of the 80s. Then I spent most of the nineties dealing with the consequences of interest rates doubling and the early 90s recession fecking my business. This was what it was like for the majority.

 

Gravy

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1 minute ago, WageWar said:

What do you mean by "Gravy"? That's it's all good?

No other word will do. For that’s what it was.
Gravy.
Gravy, these past ten years.
Alive, sober, working, loving, and
being loved by a good woman. Eleven years
ago he was told he had six months to live
at the rate he was going. And he was going
nowhere but down. So he changed his ways
somehow. He quit drinking! And the rest?
After that it was all gravy, every minute
of it, up to and including when he was told about,
well, some things that were breaking down and
building up inside his head. “Don’t weep for me,”
he said to his friends. “I’m a lucky man.
I’ve had ten years longer than I or anyone
expected. Pure Gravy. And don’t forget it.

by Ray Carver, describing his feeling after giving up the booze (he was an alcoholic)

 

So, in GD's terminology - it's all good.

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2 hours ago, Riedquat said:

If that was the case no law would ever be changeable.

That's absolutely not true.  This law was specifically put together to appease the eurosceptics in that if our relationship changed, e.g. they asked us to join the Euro, or join a Euro army, we'd need a referendum to make the choice.  However, leaving the EU materially affects our relationship, so the argument is we need to agree to that.

2 hours ago, dances with sheeple said:

So the EU isn`t stronger, and it isn`t weaker. What is it then?

I'd venture you know this.

2 hours ago, kzb said:

Leaving aside the rather strange view on what supersedes what.

We've had the referendum on materially changing our relationship with the EU !

This is desperate.

No, we had a referendum on whether we wanted to leave the EU or remain in it.  Then laws were enacted to affect that.  The referendum didn't change our relationship at all.  It's not desperate, it is logical.  Do you want to stay or remain in the EU is not something that affects our relationship, as it was an advisory and a question.  The Departing the EU law that came in because of that affects our relationship.  Invoking Article 50 affects our relationship.  That's what is being put to the courts.

 I really hope you can see this absolute difference in this.  If we voted to remain it wouldn't have affected it, so the referendum itself did nothing but tell the government how we voted.  This is really not a difficult concept.

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3 hours ago, kzb said:

What's this 2011 act then?

Anyhow, we have presented Article 50 in accord with our own constitution.  The EU Treaties cease to apply to the UK two years from that date, unless an extension is agreed.

That is the legal position as far as anyone is aware.  So what is this challenge to it?

It’s the default position.

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