Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[Staffsknot]

58 minutes ago, Casual-observer said:

In the same breath I like how remainers seem to think they can sit back and heap all responsibility for detail onto Brexiteers yet none of them feel the need to justify baked in EU decline for the foreseeable future which is still going to happen, Brexit or no Brexit. 

Sell to me a economic club that's asking for regular increased premiums for diminishing returns on trade and growth remainers.

Over to you, Go!! 

 

Ah the old faithfull the EU is declining. If in doubt call in the EU will fall.

Now expanding trade with RoW will that be in the food exports and all high value items we can only do due to locality?

Perhaps you mean our tech crown jewels - ah balls we keep selling them to the yanks to asset strip.

Maybe aviation - ****** no that was mostly with Airbus.

Satellites and astro - ah ******** that was mainly with ESA collab wasn't it

Well we can rely on the Chinese to buy our tat. Awww crap no that hate us over Huawei and Hong Kong now and besides they are having a luxury clampdown.

Oz? Nope they told us to eff off because Truss was a muppet.

So its Fortnum & Mason hampers to Singapore then huzzah. 

Well that until climate change pushes for sustainable transport / carbon miles and we suddenly don't look so hot flying Melton Mowbries to Monaco.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Staffsknot

[Casual-observer]

5 minutes ago, Staffsknot said:

Ah the old faithfull the EU is declining. If in doubt call in the EU will fall.

Now expanding trade with RoW will that be in the food exports and all high value items we can only do due to locality?

Perhaps you mean our tech crown jewels - ah balls we keep selling them to the yanks to asset strip.

Maybe aviation - ****** no that was mostly with Airbus.

Satellites and astro - ah ******** that was mainly with ESA collab wasn't it

Well we can rely on the Chinese to buy our tat. Awww crap no that hate us over Huawei and Hong Kong now and besides they are having a luxury clampdown.

Oz? Nope they told us to eff off because Truss was a muppet.

So its Fortnum & Mason hampers to Singapore then huzzah. 

Well that until climate change pushes for sustainable transport / carbon miles and we suddenly don't look so hot flying Melton Mowbries to Monaco.

Irrelevant whataboutary with a clear axe to grind. 

I never said anything about the EU will fail, but the decline in trade was/is baked in, it was baked in at least ten years ago. 

Very odd for a club that was sold on the premise of cyclical growth. Take out Germany and any EU growth evaporates, where's this bonanza that the likes of Spain and Italy would roar into growth with our inclusion.

Care to explain that little lie remainers...where are you on that load of cobblers which simply never materialised. 

So again, sell to me a club with increasing premiums that's got baked in decline for the forseeable? 

Brexiteers never believed a word of remainers because they lived through 50 years of broken promises. 

 

 

[Casual-observer]

Given the choice of having a Norweigen oil fund and EU membership, I'd have taken that in a heartbeat personally

What an absolute dud the EU turned out to be 

[zugzwang]

5 minutes ago, Casual-observer said:

Irrelevant whataboutary with a clear axe to grind. 

I never said anything about the EU will fail, but the decline in trade was/is baked in, it was baked in at least ten years ago. 

Very odd for a club that was sold on the premise of cyclical growth. Take out Germany and any EU growth evaporates, where's this bonanza that the likes of Spain and Italy would roar into growth with our inclusion.

Care to explain that little lie remainers...where are you on that load of cobblers which simply never materialised. 

So again, sell to me a club with increasing premiums that's got baked in decline for the forseeable? 

Brexiteers never believed a word of remainers because they lived through 50 years of broken promises. 

 

 

MADRID, July 30 (Reuters) - The Spanish economy rebounded faster than expected in the second quarter after unexpectedly contracting in the first three months of the year, when rising COVID-19 contagion forced new restrictions on businesses.

Spain’s gross domestic product expanded 2.8% in April-June compared to the quarter before, faster than the 2.2% expected by analysts, official data showed on Friday. The economy had contracted 0.4% in January-March.

“This week’s data confirm a strong recovery is ongoing,” Economy Minister Nadia Calvino said on her Twitter account.

Year on year, the economy grew a stunning 19.8% in April-June, partly recovering ground lost during the second quarter of 2020 when Spain’s strict coronavirus lockdown caused a 21.5% contraction.

The growth reading was also faster than the 2.4% Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez had anticipated in an interview with Reuters a few days ago.

The Spanish economy, which was one of the worst hit by the pandemic last year, with an eye-watering 11% contraction in 2020, is leading the rebound among large European Union countries. France, which also unveiled second quarter GDP data on Friday, saw activity expand by just 0.9%.

Earlier this week, the Spanish government maintained its economic growth forecast for the year at 6.5%.

[14stFlyer]

2 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Ironically as each failure of Brexit becomes apparent it is another opportunity for the Tories to blame the EU and to keep feeding those divisions.  

Not sure this is ironic.
 

I certainly do not see the tactics of the Johnson government as either surprising or amusing.  

[zugzwang]

6 minutes ago, Casual-observer said:

Given the choice of having a Norweigen oil fund and EU membership, I'd have taken that in a heartbeat personally

What an absolute dud the EU turned out to be 

 

The British have spent 40 years failing at everything and you think the EU's a dud?

[Bob8]

49 minutes ago, simon99 said:

I wondered how long that would take. That's not my recollection since joining the thread.

You are clearly very clever

Preditions are best done in advance though.

[Bob8]

16 minutes ago, Casual-observer said:

Given the choice of having a Norweigen oil fund and EU membership, I'd have taken that in a heartbeat personally

What an absolute dud the EU turned out to be 

Yes.

Because that was the choice?

Well, Scotland had the choice of Norway or UK and they went for UK.

[simon99]

1 minute ago, Bob8 said:

You are clearly very clever

Preditions are best done in advance though.

I posted a link to the IMF predictions, not mine. Posting a link to a positive economic prediction and then saying I didn't think it had been a disaster yet doesn't mean I have to discuss all the ins and outs of Brexit and what I think of them.

[steve99]

45 minutes ago, Casual-observer said:

Given the choice of having a Norweigen oil fund and EU membership, I'd have taken that in a heartbeat personally

What an absolute dud the EU turned out to be 

Thatcher gave our oil fund to the rich in backdated tax returns.

[Staffsknot]

1 hour ago, Casual-observer said:

Irrelevant whataboutary with a clear axe to grind. 

I never said anything about the EU will fail, but the decline in trade was/is baked in, it was baked in at least ten years ago. 

Very odd for a club that was sold on the premise of cyclical growth. Take out Germany and any EU growth evaporates, where's this bonanza that the likes of Spain and Italy would roar into growth with our inclusion.

Care to explain that little lie remainers...where are you on that load of cobblers which simply never materialised. 

So again, sell to me a club with increasing premiums that's got baked in decline for the forseeable? 

Brexiteers never believed a word of remainers because they lived through 50 years of broken promises. 

 

 

Whataboutery that I listed all the shit we can't sell to the RoW that we could sell to the market on the doorstep that we just made harder. Good call...

Amazing we've gone from you Remainers all keep wanting to relive the past and yet now we have Leave excusing Brexit by saying we never should have joined.

[jonb2]

8 hours ago, simon99 said:

 

But when its the other way round , i.e. voting for Brexit and saying what a mess it is , that's totally believable, not a mention. Brilliant. I like how if you don't share the view of this little Remain club the insults start flying about and people get personal. Doesn't bother me, it just demonstrates the attitude  of Remainers which put people off.

What is Brexit for? What are the benefits?

[Staffsknot]

1 hour ago, jonb2 said:

What is Brexit for? What are the benefits?

To pacify the ERG and stop the Tory infighting by kicking out anyone who disagreed with the ERG... who are now the Anti-Lockdown Research Group...

[IMHAL]

5 hours ago, Casual-observer said:

Except that's a warped view of the reality of what the future of the EU is going to look like in the future.

So you are some kind of prophet?

5 hours ago, Casual-observer said:

Even if we remained within the EU we'd still be looking at a future of declining  trade with it versus the expanding trade outside of the EU, all Brexit has done has accelerated that trend. 

Rubbish. The rest of the developing world contributes more because it's growing. The value of trade with the EU was still increasing. All we have done is purposefully reduced our trade with the EU...self harm is what it is.

5 hours ago, Casual-observer said:

The EU was/is on a path to decline in regards to total world GDP again Brexit accelerated that too. Yet even with that known remianers somehow justify increased premiums to a club that was offering nothing but a baked in future of diminishing returns. 

That wasn't how the EU was sold to the public 50 years ago

 

 

Again, total rubbish. You have to accept that developing countries will grow faster than developed countries. That does not mean tha developed countries are in terminal decline. It's just total rubbish. 

[IMHAL]

6 hours ago, Casual-observer said:

In the same breath I like how remainers seem to think they can sit back and heap all responsibility for detail onto Brexiteers yet none of them feel the need to justify baked in EU decline for the foreseeable future which is still going to happen, Brexit or no Brexit. 

Sell to me a economic club that's asking for regular increased premiums for diminishing returns on trade and growth remainers.

Over to you, Go!! 

 

How you going to take advantage of trade with the rest of the world buddy?

Tell me how many Oz style deal we need to shore up the losses from Brexit?

The answer is 2000....yes 2000. Go on then...over to you. You have 1 so far. The rest of the effort is going into replicating trade deals we already had with the rest of the world with the EU.

Jeez.... it's hard not to come to the conclusion that you guys are thick or deluded and probably both.

Edited August 5, 2021 by IMHAL

[Casual-observer]

9 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

So you are some kind of prophet?

Rubbish. The rest of the developing world contributes more because it's growing. The value of trade with the EU was still increasing. All we have done is purposefully reduced our trade with the EU...self harm is what it is.

Again, total rubbish. You have to accept that developing countries will grow faster than developed countries. That does not mean tha developed countries are in terminal decline. It's just total rubbish. 

I'm merely highlighting what was promised and never materialised. 

The EU was supposed to bring a roaring Europe across the board, it simply hasn't delivered. Two of the biggest reasons Europe actually saw decent growth decades ago was 1) largely thanks to the Marshall plan and 2) higher tariffs in the ROW. 

As the ROW lowered tariffs the EU has simply been shown up to be incapable of competing and now seems to survive on a diet of past glory thanks in no small part to American money and a WW2 hangover. 

The future trade to the EU was simply growing anaemically which in no way justifies the exuberant cost and requirements it asked to remain within it. You're putting too much reliance on the power of developing nations as opposed to an old Europe that sits on anaemic growth sitting on past glory. 

[IMHAL]

2 hours ago, jonb2 said:

What is Brexit for? What are the benefits?

Strangely enough, it's a question that no Brexiteer wants to answer.

Hint: because there is no logical answer.

[IMHAL]

7 minutes ago, Casual-observer said:

I'm merely highlighting what was promised and never materialised. 

The EU was supposed to bring a roaring Europe across the board, it simply hasn't delivered. Two of the biggest reasons Europe actually saw decent growth decades ago was 1) largely thanks to the Marshall plan and 2) higher tariffs in the ROW. 

As the ROW lowered tariffs the EU has simply been shown up to be incapable of competing and now seems to survive on a diet of past glory thanks in no small part to American money and a WW2 hangover. 

The future trade to the EU was simply growing anaemically which in no way justifies the exuberant cost and requirements it asked to remain within it. You're putting too much reliance on the power of developing nations as opposed to an old Europe that sits on anaemic growth sitting on past glory. 

So now we are 'free' of the EU, how you guys going to make up for the loss of trade? What the plan to capitalise on the opportunities? I do hope that the Oz deal is not a template for that. 

Simple maths tells you that you need 10 USA deal [if they ever materialise] just to get even. And I hate to break it to you, but there ain't 10 USA sized economies on planet earth.

Do you live on planet Earh?

What you going to do....get in bed with China? 

Edited August 5, 2021 by IMHAL

[thecrashingisles]

3 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

So now we are 'free' of the EU, how you guys going to make up for the loss of trade? What the plan to capitalise on the opportunities? I do hope that the Oz deal is not a template for that. 

Simple maths tells you that you need 10 USA deal [if they ever materialise] just to get even. And I hate to break it to you, but there ain't 10 USA sized economies on planet earth.

Do you live on planet Earh?

What you going to do....get in bed with China? 

You're thinking in the wrong terms. The challenge isn't the level of trade with Europe, but how to increase high-value economic activity and productivity in the UK.

[OnionTerror]

2 hours ago, jonb2 said:

What is Brexit for? What are the benefits?

Food for thought...

https://www.independent.ie/news/cars-funerals-and-home-improvements-eu-to-crack-down-on-large-cash-payments-40713482.html

How is it going to be policed?  The 10,000 limit will just be the start...

Edited August 5, 2021 by Dave Beans

[IMHAL]

1 minute ago, thecrashingisles said:

You're thinking in the wrong terms. The challenge isn't the level of trade with Europe, but how to increase high-value economic activity and productivity in the UK.

Derrr....another clown. Well yeer! That it the big fckn question. What's the fckn answer is what we all want to know.

There is no answer because it's just not possible. Prove me wrong.

[thecrashingisles]

1 minute ago, IMHAL said:

Derrr....another clown. Well yeer! That it the big fckn question. What's the fckn answer is what we all want to know.

There is no answer because it's just not possible. Prove me wrong.

Turning off the tap of cheap labour doesn't seem like a crazy place to start.

[IMHAL]

1 minute ago, thecrashingisles said:

Turning off the tap of cheap labour doesn't seem like a crazy place to start.

As much as I admire your enthusiasm...I don't think you are the right man for the job...Baldrick.

[Casual-observer]

12 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

So now we are 'free' of the EU, how you guys going to make up for the loss of trade? What the plan to capitalise on the opportunities? I do hope that the Oz deal is not a template for that. 

Simple maths tells you that you need 10 USA deal [if they ever materialise] just to get even. And I hate to break it to you, but there ain't 10 USA sized economies on planet earth.

Do you live on planet Earh?

What you going to do....get in bed with China? 

You're asking me a question I've never posed. I'm in no way inclined to want to find the equivalent if there's a too high price to pay for it.

Perhaps I'm simply happy to live in a democratic country that's self sufficient and not overtly obsessed with finding trade for the sakes of it. 

In the same breath I'm no more inclined to vote to remain in an economic club that's not lived up to it's promises. 

I hate to break it to you but it's not written into the cliffs of dover your country HAS to be part of huge conglomerates because it suits the agenda of some very rich people. 

Do you think the people of Greece feel better off with their EU membership all in all. They voted against their EU bailout in a referendum, got it anyway and watched as their nation was stripped.   

   

 

 

[IMHAL]

13 minutes ago, Casual-observer said:

You're asking me a question I've never posed. I'm in no way inclined to want to find the equivalent if there's a too high price to pay for it.

So you don't care or have not thought about the consequenses of the price we will have to pay in terms of jobs, income or prosperity?

13 minutes ago, Casual-observer said:

Perhaps I'm simply happy to live in a democratic country that's self sufficient and not overtly obsessed with finding trade for the sakes of it. 

Who is 'self sufficient' these days. It's a global world for gods sake. Global Britain = Brexit...My god...so hypocritical or just a dumb thing to say.

13 minutes ago, Casual-observer said:

In the same breath I'm no more inclined to vote to remain in an economic club that's not lived up to it's promises. 

What promises? We live in a world that is constantly changing - what are the promises that Brexit has made? Tell me and others because we want to know so that we can reject them if they do not live up to them.

13 minutes ago, Casual-observer said:

I hate to break it to you but it's not written into the cliffs of dover your country HAS to be part of huge conglomerates because it suits the agenda of some very rich people. 

Hate to break it to you, but the rich people control the world. Just ask JRM and he will tell you to do what you are told. Sorry...I think you already are doing that.

13 minutes ago, Casual-observer said:

Do you think the people of Greece feel better off with their EU membership all in all. They voted against their EU bailout in a referendum, got it anyway and watched as their nation was stripped.   

   

 

 

The people of Greece are in a very difficult situation no doubt. Part of my largest gripe with the EU. But that is no excuse for our self ham.

Edited August 5, 2021 by IMHAL