IMHAL Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 5 hours ago, thecrashingisles said: I don't think you understand what it means to give someone a blank cheque. As an aside, your language about being "further out than Turkey" is just another example of the Remain cultural cringe. The EU is not the be all and end all. We are not out of Europe. We are Europe. Europe is defined by us just as much as it is by France or Germany. Gawd - you get worse and are having issues comprehending now. I said the we are further from the EU than Turkey (context in terms of trade and allignment). How you could misrepresent that as a geographical issue is beyond me. Brexit is a blank cheque as no one has defined what it is except for not legally being in the EU. Therefore it can be anything else. In fact, worse than that, it does not seem to matter what mandate the government are voted in to implement, it can seemingly be ignored and they can do what they like. Even wose, the seal clapping leavers are happy clapping the demise of the democratic process that they 'apparently' hold in high regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 11 minutes ago, IMHAL said: Gawd - you get worse and are having issues comprehending now. I said the we are further from the EU than Turkey (context in terms of trade and allignment). How you could misrepresent that as a geographical issue is beyond me. Brexit is a blank cheque as no one has defined what it is except for not legally being in the EU. Therefore it can be anything else. In fact, worse than that, it does not seem to matter what mandate the government are voted in to implement, it can seemingly be ignored and they can do what they like. Even wose, the seal clapping leavers are happy clapping the demise of the democratic process that they 'apparently' hold in high regard. A blank cheque is when the person you give it to can write in whatever number they want. The 2016 vote quite obviously wasn't like that. It took two further general elections to get to a concrete outcome, and the option of cancelling it altogether was mainstream up until the second general election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 19 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said: A blank cheque is when the person you give it to can write in whatever number they want. The 2016 vote quite obviously wasn't like that. It took two further general elections to get to a concrete outcome, and the option of cancelling it altogether was mainstream up until the second general election. Blankcheque means Blankcheque ? lolz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 37 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said: A blank cheque is when the person you give it to can write in whatever number they want. The 2016 vote quite obviously wasn't like that. It took two further general elections to get to a concrete outcome, and the option of cancelling it altogether was mainstream up until the second general election. What concrete outcome? You mean the one that the gov does not want to implement and now wants to rewrite? Is that the concrete outcome you are talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 41 minutes ago, IMHAL said: What concrete outcome? You mean the one that the gov does not want to implement and now wants to rewrite? Is that the concrete outcome you are talking about? Yes. The world doesn't stand still. Whether or not the treaty is rewritten, or however it is implemented, it exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelims Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said: Yes. The world doesn't stand still. Whether or not the treaty is rewritten, or however it is implemented, it exists. Rewritten? There is no democratic mandate to rewrite but you as a Russian paid troll wouldn’t know how to spell democracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, yelims said: Rewritten? There is no democratic mandate to rewrite but you as a Russian paid troll wouldn’t know how to spell democracy I do: демократия. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelims Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) https://www.euronews.com/2021/07/14/devastating-crops-left-to-rot-in-england-as-brexit-begins-to-bite Devastating': Crops left to rot in England as Brexit begins to bite as a consequence the firm is struggling to fulfil the demands of the supermarkets. He thinks it's inevitable either shelves will be left empty or the likes of Sainsbury's and Tescos will turn to EU imports to fill the gaps. F()k business Edited July 25, 2021 by yelims Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelims Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 1 minute ago, thecrashingisles said: I do: демократия. Good comrade Now explain why the Will of the people is being disrespected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 3 hours ago, thecrashingisles said: I think you would be disappointed by the results if you actually tested that, but it's revealing that you answered by denigrating a load of member states. People know France, Germany, Spain, Italy, etc, but the European Union doesn't mean much globally. As man who is apparently informed, may I ask what was the issue the issue that made you decide that brexit was not just necessary for democratic credibility, but desirous in itself? You used to see the impossibility of all three of: - Leaving the SU/CM - Maintaining the GFA - Maintaining the integrity of the UK, ...you now think these self-contradcting things are possible. I would be interested in what changed? The only people I know who had this conversion are loyal Tories who changed their mind in alignment with their party. I assume this was not the case with you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 21 minutes ago, yelims said: https://www.euronews.com/2021/07/14/devastating-crops-left-to-rot-in-england-as-brexit-begins-to-bite Devastating': Crops left to rot in England as Brexit begins to bite as a consequence the firm is struggling to fulfil the demands of the supermarkets. He thinks it's inevitable either shelves will be left empty or the likes of Sainsbury's and Tescos will turn to EU imports to fill the gaps. F()k business Barfoots of Botley, a farming company based on England's south coast near Bognor Regis, said 750,000 courgettes were being left Why grow crops when the local population us oaps in 600k houses? https://www.barfoots.com/#experts-in-our-field Growing is in our nature. Over 40 years ago, we started life as a small family farm with a handful of people and a modest range of crops. Today, we’re a global farming and food business working thousands of acres and employing thousands of people around the world to grow, process, pack and market a range of fresh produce A quick look at - https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/company/02383478-barfoots-of-botley-limited Shows flattish revenue, only growing in 2012, making use of that expensive EU labour. A farmer unable to harvest their crop is a bad farmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shlomo Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 34 minutes ago, yelims said: https://www.euronews.com/2021/07/14/devastating-crops-left-to-rot-in-england-as-brexit-begins-to-bite Devastating': Crops left to rot in England as Brexit begins to bite as a consequence the firm is struggling to fulfil the demands of the supermarkets. He thinks it's inevitable either shelves will be left empty or the likes of Sainsbury's and Tescos will turn to EU imports to fill the gaps. F()k business It is because of coronovirus not Brexit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Save me from the madness! Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 Who would have though it would make sense for housing close to manual and not the best paid work to be reserved for those workers doing it rather then converted into a stylish retirement pad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 5 minutes ago, shlomo said: It is because of coronovirus not Brexit It is going to be both. After all, this problem is not happening throughout Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shlomo Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 9 minutes ago, Bob8 said: It is going to be both. After all, this problem is not happening throughout Europe. You are right in some ways, the British have started to dislike foreigners, I do not believe the genie can be put back in the bottle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 41 minutes ago, shlomo said: You are right in some ways, the British have started to dislike foreigners, I do not believe the genie can be put back in the bottle Yes, I think there is something in that. Or, at least some views are being legitimised a little more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Bob8 said: As man who is apparently informed, may I ask what was the issue the issue that made you decide that brexit was not just necessary for democratic credibility, but desirous in itself? You used to see the impossibility of all three of: - Leaving the SU/CM - Maintaining the GFA - Maintaining the integrity of the UK, ...you now think these self-contradcting things are possible. I would be interested in what changed? The only people I know who had this conversion are loyal Tories who changed their mind in alignment with their party. I assume this was not the case with you? The integrity of the SM/CU ceased to be a UK interest the moment Brexit happened. If anything we do now stuffs the SM, then it can get stuffed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 1 hour ago, spyguy said: Barfoots of Botley, a farming company based on England's south coast near Bognor Regis, said 750,000 courgettes were being left Why grow crops when the local population us oaps in 600k houses? https://www.barfoots.com/#experts-in-our-field Growing is in our nature. Over 40 years ago, we started life as a small family farm with a handful of people and a modest range of crops. Today, we’re a global farming and food business working thousands of acres and employing thousands of people around the world to grow, process, pack and market a range of fresh produce A quick look at - https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/company/02383478-barfoots-of-botley-limited Shows flattish revenue, only growing in 2012, making use of that expensive EU labour. A farmer unable to harvest their crop is a bad farmer. You work in IT - half of industry only works because of Indian software houses providing cheap labour so that's very glass houses outlook. ISH may not be great but undeniably keeps many companies that can't afford a dedicated IT dept of their own going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said: The integrity of the SM/CU ceased to be a UK interest the moment Brexit happened. If anything we do now stuffs the SM, then it can get stuffed. Then why did we sign an international obligation saying just the opposite? Because without it you didn't get the deal? So a bright shining lie is what you are advocating. What do you do if the EU cancels the other part of that - the deal? You couldn't previously get the deal without NIP so why would they let you now? This is such pie in the sky thinking a 747 is smeared in meat & tatties. This is indicative of my point about it not being about solutions it being about Brexiteers wanting to be seen to win over the EU. You know things don't happen in isolation. Every time you go - ooh this doesn't matter reality will tap you on the shoulder Edited July 25, 2021 by Staffsknot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, Staffsknot said: Then why did we sign an international obligation saying just the opposite? Because without it you didn't get the deal? So a bright shining lie is what you are advocating. What do you do if the EU cancels the other part of that - the deal? You couldn't previously get the deal without NIP so why would they let you now? This is such pie in the sky thinking a 747 is smeared in meat & tatties. This is indicative of my point about it not being about solutions it being about Brexiteers wanting to be seen to win over the EU. You know things don't happen in isolation. Every time you go - ooh this doesn't matter reality will tap you on the shoulder It is ultimately the political reality of Northern Ireland that means nothing resembling a regular customs border can exist on either side. The EU will have to adjust to this reality in the end, and the deal has enough loopholes to ensure the UK doesn't pay any price for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 45 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said: The integrity of the SM/CU ceased to be a UK interest the moment Brexit happened. If anything we do now stuffs the SM, then it can get stuffed. I see. Well it's true that British diplomacy has taken a major hit since Brexit - almost as policy - so you've obviously been well briefed. https://www.e-ir.info/2020/10/12/a-recessional-power-how-britains-claim-to-be-a-great-power-has-been-fatally-undercut/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 2 hours ago, Bob8 said: As man who is apparently informed, may I ask what was the issue the issue that made you decide that brexit was not just necessary for democratic credibility, but desirous in itself? You used to see the impossibility of all three of: - Leaving the SU/CM - Maintaining the GFA - Maintaining the integrity of the UK, ...you now think these self-contradcting things are possible. I would be interested in what changed? The only people I know who had this conversion are loyal Tories who changed their mind in alignment with their party. I assume this was not the case with you? 52 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said: The integrity of the SM/CU ceased to be a UK interest the moment Brexit happened. If anything we do now stuffs the SM, then it can get stuffed. Yes, so you were skeptical presumably as the brexit campaign was normally clear on wanting out of the single market? As man who is apparently informed, may I ask what was the issue the issue that made you decide that brexit was not just necessary for democratic credibility, but desirous in itself? You used to see the impossibility of all three of: - Leaving the SU/CM - Maintaining the GFA - Maintaining the integrity of the UK, ...you now think these self-contradcting things are possible. I would be interested in what changed? The only people I know who had this conversion are loyal Tories who changed their mind in alignment with their party. I assume this was not the case with you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 3 hours ago, thecrashingisles said: Yes. The world doesn't stand still. Whether or not the treaty is rewritten, or however it is implemented, it exists. So you are not interested in the will of the people, an election mandate of anything of that nature. It was all a scharade to get a result that a minority wanted. Thanks for confirming that and confirming my suspicions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHAL Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 9 minutes ago, Bob8 said: Yes, so you were skeptical presumably as the brexit campaign was normally clear on wanting out of the single market? As man who is apparently informed, may I ask what was the issue the issue that made you decide that brexit was not just necessary for democratic credibility, but desirous in itself? You used to see the impossibility of all three of: - Leaving the SU/CM - Maintaining the GFA - Maintaining the integrity of the UK, ...you now think these self-contradcting things are possible. I would be interested in what changed? The only people I know who had this conversion are loyal Tories who changed their mind in alignment with their party. I assume this was not the case with you? The only thing that has changed is his mask has fallen off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 11 minutes ago, Bob8 said: Yes, so you were skeptical presumably as the brexit campaign was normally clear on wanting out of the single market? As man who is apparently informed, may I ask what was the issue the issue that made you decide that brexit was not just necessary for democratic credibility, but desirous in itself? You used to see the impossibility of all three of: - Leaving the SU/CM - Maintaining the GFA - Maintaining the integrity of the UK, ...you now think these self-contradcting things are possible. I would be interested in what changed? The only people I know who had this conversion are loyal Tories who changed their mind in alignment with their party. I assume this was not the case with you? Brexit has happened, therefore it must be vindicated. It is not in the national interest of the UK to become some kind of object lesson. I don’t think this has anything to do with partisan politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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