Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[Peter Hun]

1 hour ago, Riedquat said:

Certainly something odd's going on if we're agreeing with each other in the Brexit thread!

This isn't a brexit subject really. Its the only thing this government has done right, entirely down to Hancock and the scientists.

[Peter Hun]

1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said:

No profit is a very flexible concept that often allows companies to make very decent profits.

In this case the profit could be all the new production facilities and business relationships required to provide and distribute the nonprofit vaccine.

Also it only applies to the first round of vaccines not the boosters and new variant jabs that will probably be  required.

In reality it is a great (no) loss leader leader that provides a good prospect of future profits.

For profit vaccine maker booked $15billion. AZN booked £2millon profit 

[yelims]

Just now, Peter Hun said:

For profit vaccine maker booked $15billion. AZN booked £2millon profit 

They took a third of a billion euro and failed to deliver to EU why delivering to UK from EU plants 

 

that is the issue 

[Peter Hun]

1 hour ago, yelims said:

Yep you both have been captured by Brexiteer / Tories / Neofascist narrative 

to distract the sheeple from the disaster both Covid and Brexit has been 

I'm a hard core tory hating remainer. But I don't put dogma ahead of facts, UK prioritised vaccines and threw money at it - as did the USA. The EU had bad luck and put a failed German politician in charge.

[Peter Hun]

4 minutes ago, yelims said:

They took a third of a billion euro and failed to deliver to EU why delivering to UK from EU plants 

 

that is the issue 

Dim-witted as ever.

[Confusion of VIs]

1 hour ago, Peter Hun said:

For profit vaccine maker booked $15billion. AZN booked £2millon profit 

Booked is a meaningless term. In a solvent company a decent CFO can massage the numbers to give whatever answer the Board wants.  

[Peter Hun]

3 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Booked is a meaningless term. In a solvent company a decent CFO can massage the numbers to give whatever answer the Board wants.  

So a vaccine selling at 10% of another will make the same profit?

[yelims]

11 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

So a vaccine selling at 10% of another will make the same profit?

Dim-witted as ever.

 

profit is not a function of competitor product prices.

[thecrashingisles]

5 hours ago, slawek said:

Not true. 

As of 25/03 India supplied 28m doses to Covax.

"To date, COVAX has been supplied with 28 million COVISHIELD doses and was expecting an additional 40 million doses to be available in March, and up to 50 million doses in April."

https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/covax-updates-participants-delivery-delays-vaccines-serum-institute-india-sii-and

Sorry, how is it not true? The 31m figure does not come from the EU. They are just trying to take the credit for the whole COVAX programme.

[slawek]

Just now, thecrashingisles said:

Sorry, how is it not true? The 31m figure does not come from the EU. They are just trying to take the credit for the whole COVAX programme.

31m was exported to COVAX by the EU (can you quote any sources that falsify this claim?)

28m was exported to COVAX by India

31m > 28m

[Confusion of VIs]

40 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

So a vaccine selling at 10% of another will make the same profit?

If you take the long term view, quite possibly. After the initial (no) loss leader the profits will come from the follow on bosters and new variants abs.

No guarantees of course. Their inept handling of the effectiveness and safety communications is making people in Europe and the US see it as a second best/poor man's vaccine. A view which, if it sticks, will cost them most of their potential profits.

    

[thecrashingisles]

18 minutes ago, slawek said:

31m was exported to COVAX by the EU (can you quote any sources that falsify this claim?)

28m was exported to COVAX by India

31m > 28m

Even the EU does not claim that 31m doses were exported via COVAX. Look at their graphic carefully. They say 31m doses were delivered by COVAX, not that 31m doses were exported from the EU. They are claiming the credit based on being a donator to COVAX, not an exporter.

The initial phase of allocations from COVAX (not yet all delivered) cover 237m doses of AZ and 1.2m doses of Pfizer. The Pfizer has come from the EU. The AZ has come from India and South Korea.

[dryrot]

2 hours ago, yelims said:

reuters I linked to doesn’t have a paywall, while Telegraph and FT do

Btw Telegraph may as well rebrand itself as Pravda by now

Reuters story was just "City must expand opportunties"  type guff. Also EU will not give City special role (what else is new?)

In other news, investment in Swindon

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/honda-to-sell-swindon-factory-to-developer-panattoni/ar-BB1eZtg0

EDIT: the DT and FT stories were about capital flight from Europe. Some capital is leaving the periphery EU countries to Germany, and some to the UK. 

Edited March 26, 2021 by dryrot
clarify quotes

[yelims]

20 minutes ago, slawek said:

31m was exported to COVAX by the EU (can you quote any sources that falsify this claim?)

28m was exported to COVAX by India

31m > 28m

What’s worse is that India now blocked exports until their 1.2billion people are vaccinated 

US had block

UK not exporting anything 

 

that just leaves EU, Russia and China. with the last two twiddling their thumbs and busily buying up Eu made vaccines 

 

but hey we have promises and pledged from people who just cut foreign aid to poorest countries and have a history of lying with pledges driven around on sides of buses.

[thecrashingisles]

Just now, yelims said:

What’s worse is that India now blocked exports until their 1.2billion people are vaccinated 

US had block

UK not exporting anything 

 

that just leaves EU, Russia and China. with the last two twiddling their thumbs and busily buying up Eu made vaccines 

 

but hey we have promises and pledged from people who just cut foreign aid to poorest countries and have a history of lying with pledges driven around on sides of buses.

You're a deluded fanatic.

[slawek]

2 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

Even the EU does not claim that 31m doses were exported via COVAX. Look at their graphic carefully. They say 31m doses were delivered by COVAX, not that 31m doses were exported from the EU. They are claiming the credit based on being a donator to COVAX, not an exporter.

The initial phase of allocations from COVAX (not yet all delivered) cover 237m doses of AZ and 1.2m doses of Pfizer. The Pfizer has come from the EU. The AZ has come from India and South Korea.

You are right. 31m is total COVAX deliveries.

[Peter Hun]

Just now, thecrashingisles said:

You're a deluded fanatic.

Gish gallop

The Gish gallop is a term for an eristic technique in which a debater attempts to overwhelm an opponent by excessive number of arguments, without regard for the accuracy or strength of those arguments.

[Deckard]

12 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

You're a deluded fanatic.

Like most bitter posters who keep flogging a dead horse in this pathetic thread.

Kudos to you for showing some intellectual honesty in the face of reality, and amending your views accordingly. 

[rollover]

3 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

You're a deluded fanatic.

France accuses UK of 'blackmail' over vaccine exports

France has accused the UK of "blackmail" over its handling of coronavirus vaccine exports, amid continuing tensions over supply chains.

Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian was asked whether the EU had been "scammed" by sending millions of doses to the UK while its own rollout stuttered.

"We need to build a co-operative relationship," he told France Info radio. "But we cannot deal this way."

France has called for the EU to implement tougher export controls.

BBC

[kzb]

8 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

If you take the long term view, quite possibly. After the initial (no) loss leader the profits will come from the follow on bosters and new variants abs.

No guarantees of course. Their inept handling of the effectiveness and safety communications is making people in Europe and the US see it as a second best/poor man's vaccine. A view which, if it sticks, will cost them most of their potential profits.

    

No good turn goes unpunished.  AZ are now saying next pandemic they will make a profit like the rest of them.

[24gray24]

22 hours ago, yelims said:

UK is not making vaccines it needs as clearly illustrated on previous page with FACTS uk up to now got most of its vaccines from EU with NOTHING in other direction, no cooperation only flag waving and insults.

Brexiteers then get panties in a twist when other countries respond with the same nationalism that had been hallmark of brexit, taste of own medicine one could say

Are people talking about output of multi national plant in uk vs  output of multi national plant in eu? 

And then turning it into uk does this and eu does that? 

It's seems a bit silly. 

Especially when it's turned into St Mary of eu dispensing charity to the poor in millions of doses vs nothing from the heretical UK based multi national factory. 

Sounds like it was invented by a couple of failed jesuits who like football...

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

20 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

I'm a hard core tory hating remainer. But I don't put dogma ahead of facts, UK prioritised vaccines and threw money at it - as did the USA. The EU had bad luck and put a failed German politician in charge.

I don't think the UK vaccine roll out as effective as everyone is claiming.

We had already burnt through most if the deadwood, plus we have come out of winter into spring.

A lot of other countries are running at similar levels, vaccine or no vaccine.

A few may be having variant waves, but those will burnout too.

[24gray24]

23 hours ago, dugsbody said:

The EU is not criticising it. Their regulator said it was safe. They are exporting it to many poorer countries, unlike the UK.

Not criticising it? There's been a  political campaign to discredit it as unsafe! 

And temporarily suspending it because of 37 blood clots as the crescendo of the political campaign. 

Even though you'd expect that many blood clots per million anyway. 

"Not criticising it" !  What would the fellow (who  calls anyone who disagrees with him a liar) call this?

 

 

[24gray24]

18 hours ago, slawek said:

You are right. 31m is total COVAX deliveries.

So the bountiful EU delivering 31m doses to the poor is a big fat piece of EU propaganda. Well,  well. 

So who invented this story?

[slawek]

6 minutes ago, 24gray24 said:

Are people talking about output of multi national plant in uk vs  output of multi national plant in eu? 

And then turning it into uk does this and eu does that? 

It's seems a bit silly. 

Especially when it's turned into St Mary of eu dispensing charity to the poor in millions of doses vs nothing from the heretical UK based multi national factory. 

Sounds like it was invented by a couple of failed jesuits who like football...

Nationalism is silly. 

It is our vaccine, we should be supplied first, we export more than you, we paid more to Covax, or in another words we are better than you for some reason. 

The beauty of pandemic is it doesn't care who you are, we are not out of woods until everyone is out of the woods.