Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[Warlord]

 

Nissan opts against making Ariya EV in UK due to Brexit

 

Japanese company choses to make cars in .. Japan.

Wow Peter, you're really scraping the barrel

 

[NobodyInParticular]

 

On electric cars, an annexe reveals a late compromise.

The EU had sought to offer tariff-free access only to those British cars that are made mostly with European parts. That will now be phased in over six years, but is less generous than the UK ask.

This should be just about enough for Japanese owners of massive UK plants Nissan and Toyota's current production, but raises questions about future rounds of investment.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55449035

 

Nissan have already answered that question.

 

Nissan opts against making Ariya EV in UK due to Brexit

The electric SUVs will be made in Japan for export to the EU and US.

When Nissan presented the Ariya this summer, they still had their eyes on manufacturing the European allocation in the UK. Now it looks like Nissan has decided against strengthening its foothold on the Isles.

https://www.electrive.com/2020/12/17/nissan-opts-against-making-ariya-ev-in-uk-due-to-brexit/

 

Ah, that EU - Japan deal is pretty handy, isn't it? 

[NobodyInParticular]

 

Japanese company choses to make cars in .. Japan.

Wow Peter, you're really scraping the barrel

The point here is that the EU-Japan deal will, it seems, ultimately offer BETTER access to the EU car market than the UK will have given the apparent rules of origin issues. Even more so, the review period for the EU-Japan deal is in ten years, not four, also meaning Nissan can rely on it still being in existence for long enough to invest in it. The slight wrinkle is that the car tariffs take a few years to wind down, but from memory, in four years they will be ar zero. So it makes sense for Nissan to do this. If the EU-UK deal had been more comprehensive or not subject to a four year review and UK politics been more stable it might have been Sunderland. 

The big issue for Sunderland is now that unless the EU-UK deal becomes more comprehensive at the review at the end of 2024, then unless another company buys the plant to make electric cars for the UK market, it is going to close in 2030. It hasn't reprieved Sunderland, it's just a stay of execution. 

So now either the government works hard to fix this for Sunderland (I wonder what proportion of the economy it represents relative to fishing?) or starts planning alternatives for the economy of the region.

One of the other big employers in the same region as Sunderland is, from memory, Hitachi and trains. I wonder how that will be affected. 

I'd like to see the area prosper as it's an area I have many relatives, but I have to wonder to what extent the long term is being considered. Or are the Conservatives working on the principle that by the time this bites Scotland will be gone and the Red Wall not needed? Even losing fifty seats in Scotland, that might be risky if things go badly around then. It’s all to play for, though. 

[NobodyInParticular]

 

I think Musk has cornered the delivery systems for the next decade at least.

He has a way to go:

https://aerospace.csis.org/data/space-environment-total-launches-by-country/

 

 

 

[Bruce Banner]

BBC News this morning are interviewing a succession of opposition politicians about the Brexit deal.

The aggressive and annoying presenter is trying to big-up the deal and shoot down any opposition objections.

Instructions from the "Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda"?

[longgone]

 

One of our daughters works for Airbus.....  in Toulouse .

I love a toulouse sausage too yum.

 

[Chunketh]

 

He has a way to go:

https://aerospace.csis.org/data/space-environment-total-launches-by-country/

 

will be interesting to see the 2020 data in there

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_in_spaceflight#By_rocket

[NobodyInParticular]

 

BBC News this morning are interviewing a succession of opposition politicians about the Brexit deal.

The aggressive and annoying presenter is trying to big-up the deal and shoot down any opposition objections.

Instructions from the "Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda"?

I thought the BBC was a cesspit of anti-Brexit lefties according to the DM and DE? 

[NobodyInParticular]

 

will be interesting to see the 2020 data in there

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_in_spaceflight#By_rocket

Falcon 9 non-test, successful launches were 2/3 of those of the Long March series, so Musk has done well in 2020, but there's still a way to go. It's been a pretty much linear scaling, so on that basis it would be 2022 to equal Long March. China's the new Russia of launches, it seems. What the relative costs are I don't know. I wish Musk well and hopefully he can stay away from twitter in 2021!

[Warlord]

 

Ah, that EU - Japan deal is pretty handy, isn't it? 

We're free to make our own deal with japan or any other country. We're also more attractive a place to invest than tax-and-regulate to death EU countries 

[Chunketh]

 

Falcon 9 non-test, successful launches were 2/3 of those of the Long March series, so Musk has done well in 2020, but there's still a way to go. It's been a pretty much linear scaling, so on that basis it would be 2022 to equal Long March. China's the new Russia of launches, it seems. What the relative costs are I don't know. I wish Musk well and hopefully he can stay away from twitter in 2021!

Oh indeed, he can be a bit of a ***tard when it comes to twitter.

Think they have 50+ falcon flights slated for 2021 plus Starship testing, quite impressive for a commercial operation. Also note that of those 25 launches in 2020, 80% of them were reused F9 boosters. Thats what is giving them the cadence.

[hurlerontheditch]

Soo much winning !

[Biggus]

 

Soo much winning !

This is why no deal would have been better. Five years of messing about for a deal that puts the UK at a disadvantage. What was the point?

 

[24gray24]

 

Oh, don't get me wrong... I also have preferences about what should be government objectives... but, I also recognise, reality is reality - and a lot of government policy is not going to align with what I would have decided for you if appointed as everyone's benevolent overlord.

How would being non-productive turn us into a "third world" country anyhow?  Wouldn't it be more likely to turn us into a "second world" country"?

As for productivity - I have genuine philosophical concerns there, too.  Perhaps we might expect some general agreement about some desirable outcomes of government intervention... but I don't think it is even coherent to talk about a common understanding of what is productive, and what is not.  What should be the objective of soceity?  Might it be "freedom" or "pursuit of happiness" - or something of that ilk?  What if beurocratic paperwork makes someone feel happy and free?  Wouldn't that force us to consider its expansion to be the pinnacle of success?

Lord, surely no one believes that looting the taxpayers to invest half in some politician's pet project (and waste the rest) is ever productive?

Bureaucracy is consumption (at taxpayers expense) not production. 

 

[DiggerUK]

Despite the elitist fury of the political, business and legal elites, ordinary people, through Brexit, have shown themselves capable of making a change in politics and history.
The elite, who have benefited from the smashing of blue collar living standards in the last thirty odd years, still claim that Brexit is the result of uneducated racists.
Well, I am one of those “scum of the earth” who welcomed Brexit. I am not uneducated, I am not racist. Up yours, the ballot box has decided.
If you don’t like the ballot box, pick up the bullet box.

Trumps victory in 2016 had identical liberal elites claiming that Russia, with the assistance of Wikileaks, was how the venal house of Clinton was defeated. That opposition to the house of Clinton was described as uneducated, racist and most infamously of all as “deplorable”

I support neither Trump or Johnson. Merry Xmas and a happy New Year…

[thehowler]

 

Soo much winning !

Yep, this is great news for anyone concerned the UK would drop standards. Deal - now published - is full of current regulatory protections on labour/environment, UK has fully agreed to non-regression. We can put the UK sweat shop canard on the slab.

Some thoughts on first glance...this is largely the compromise predicted on this thread back in March. Arbitration tribunal for fairness, no ECJ except for EU programme access, UK moved a lot on fish and LPF, EU moved a little on LPF and dropped dynamic alignment. They've dragged it out.

We stay in Euratom and can negotiate new terms for Horizon. Leaving Erasmus as it was two thirds weighted to EU students for the UK and the govt are mean, think they can get same benefits from a new programme, Turing, though have to see if they come up with the cash.

No agri food equivalence is a big hassle for UK exporters.

Suspect they'll agree financial equivalence quietly in next few days - on EU terms, natch.

Strong protections for EU on EVs and Rules of Origin controls. I see this as a kind of state aid control as it prevents massive investment into UK to take advantage of the zero tariffs into SM. Will see if the UK govt can do anything meaningful with tech on batteries in next few years during the ROI phase in - efforts so far look pitiful.

Rumour that we won't need International Driving cards but still checking this. Same on health card - staying - though it changes to a UK branding. But not confirmed.

Overall the deal looks very much a first step, binding UK to non-regression and protecting EU from unfair foreign investment into UK. Brexit got real.

Edited December 26, 2020 by thehowler

[24gray24]

 

This is why no deal would have been better. Five years of messing about for a deal that puts the UK at a disadvantage. What was the point?

 

It's transitional, while both sides reduce their exports to each other and expand elsewhere (they think). 

Either side can end all that in 4 years, even if no one vetoes it now. 

I can't see it taking less than 20 years to build up new markets, so it could stagger on for a while. 

Has the text been published yet? 

[jonb2]

 

I thought the BBC was a cesspit of anti-Brexit lefties according to the DM and DE? 

Worth watching this NIP.

They were known as the British Falsehood Company during the General Strike. Thatcher very slowly started removing their testicles and it's been downhill ever since. Apart from things like the Iraq war during Blair - when they tried again to hold the Blair government to account, they suffered even more - meaning the castration operation continued.

The last decade has been bad. Got rid of Jeremy Paxman and Andrew Neil. Turn the whole newsroom into a Blue Peter production. Cameron stuffed the board with cronies and Johnson and Co has removed any sign that they had any genitalia at all.

As a news source, they are finished. Which is what populists plan for.

[thehowler]

 

It's transitional, while both sides reduce their exports to each other and expand elsewhere (they think). 

Either side can end all that in 4 years, even if no one vetoes it now. 

I can't see it taking less than 20 years to build up new markets, so it could stagger on for a while. 

Has the text been published yet? 

Up on the uk gov site.

Think the break clause takes 12 months.

[btl_hater]

 

Despite the elitist fury of the political, business and legal elites, ordinary people, through Brexit, have shown themselves capable of making a change in politics and history.
The elite, who have benefited from the smashing of blue collar living standards in the last thirty odd years, still claim that Brexit is the result of uneducated racists.
Well, I am one of those “scum of the earth” who welcomed Brexit. I am not uneducated, I am not racist. Up yours, the ballot box has decided.
If you don’t like the ballot box, pick up the bullet box.

Trumps victory in 2016 had identical liberal elites claiming that Russia, with the assistance of Wikileaks, was how the venal house of Clinton was defeated. That opposition to the house of Clinton was described as uneducated, racist and most infamously of all as “deplorable”

I support neither Trump or Johnson. Merry Xmas and a happy New Year…

Given that you are not uneducated, could you please outline what you perceived as the benefits of leaving the EU at the time of voting Leave? Cheers 

[thehowler]

 

Given that you are not uneducated, could you please outline what you perceived as the benefits of leaving the EU at the time of voting Leave? Cheers 

Sorry, can't help, didn't vote leave.

[spyguy]

 

Worth watching this NIP.

They were known as the British Falsehood Company during the General Strike. Thatcher very slowly started removing their testicles and it's been downhill ever since. Apart from things like the Iraq war during Blair - when they tried again to hold the Blair government to account, they suffered even more - meaning the castration operation continued.

The last decade has been bad. Got rid of Jeremy Paxman and Andrew Neil. Turn the whole newsroom into a Blue Peter production. Cameron stuffed the board with cronies and Johnson and Co has removed any sign that they had any genitalia at all.

As a news source, they are finished. Which is what populists plan for.

The Con-Lib coalition, followed by Cons were too busy with other issues to bother trying stuff the BBC and other public bodies with lackeys.

James Purnell was dropped into the BBC as a reward for telling Gorddy to f-off, taking  a one for team of non  team Brown Labour.

Ditto parachuting Eyebrows and other into regional mayor positions.

Heres the board

https://www.bbc.com/aboutthebbc/whoweare/bbcboard

 

[NobodyInParticular]

 

We're free to make our own deal with japan or any other country.

Indeed, we have one. However, the one that Japan has with the EU is very good, and benefits Japan in terms of car manufacture with fewer uncertain. 

 

We're also more attractive a place to invest than tax-and-regulate to death EU countries 

😂😂😂😂

[Peter Hun]

 

Lord, surely no one believes that looting the taxpayers to invest half in some politician's pet project (and waste the rest) is ever productive?

Bureaucracy is consumption (at taxpayers expense) not production. 

 

Will of the People, get over it.

[NobodyInParticular]

 

known as the British Falsehood Company during the General Strike.

That was in 1926. That's not very relevant today, I would have thought. 

 

Thatcher very slowly started removing their testicles and it's been downhill ever since. Apart from things like the Iraq war during Blair - when they tried again to hold the Blair government to account, they suffered even more - meaning the castration operation continued.

The last decade has been bad. Got rid of Jeremy Paxman and Andrew Neil.

I think Neil left of his own accord. 

Losing Mark Mardell seems much more serious, although I didn't realise he was over 60.

 

Turn the whole newsroom into a Blue Peter production.

It's much more a function of the TV news. I'd rather watch Channel 4 or Newsnight than the regular news. Radio 4 news is a lot better than the main BBC TV news. However, there has been pressure, which the BBC has acquiesced to, to cut journalists, so it remains to be seen what happens. People forget that Channel 4 also gets licence fee funding, especially the news, so some concern there. 

 

Cameron stuffed the board with cronies and Johnson and Co has removed any sign that they had any genitalia at all.

As a news source, they are finished. Which is what populists plan for.

I still think it is odd that some see it as a version of Pravda because it is government propaganda, others because they believe it's the mouthpiece of Marxists! 

Edited December 26, 2020 by NobodyInParticular