GrizzlyDave Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 A reasonably balanced and pragmatic solution orientated analysis by the alternative arrangements commission; Take home message - where there is a will, there is way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, tomandlu said: He was doing his job - what do you expect him to do? Jesus, talk about victim-blaming - thank christ he wasn't wearing a short skirt... Oh, but there's now full-on kowtowing - better get used to it. For example Fox saying sorry to Trump's fecking daughter FFS. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/10/sorry-but-why-is-liam-fox-apologising-to-ivanka-trump Yes master, no master ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) More servant-ism https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/boris-johnson-shows-that-hes-donald-trumps-poodle https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-is-in-trump-fan-club-and-risks-doing-great-harm-to-uk-2019-7?r=US&IR=T We're really getting our sovereignty back in bundles aren't we? Edited July 11, 2019 by jonb2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomandlu Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) Question to the tories on here - are any of you enthusiastic about a BJ premiership? (and, if so, why?) Edited July 11, 2019 by tomandlu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 30 minutes ago, jonb2 said: Ah but there's good progress and bad progress isn't there? Or would you rather we still all toiled in the fields and had a peasant lifespan of 40 years? There are many reasons for increasing anxiety. But they need listing and analysing rather than 'it's progress, innit'. There is indeed good and bad progress, I just happen to presently find the majority of it unpleasant (including many bits others seem to leap on). As an aside, 40 years' lifespan is a bit misleading - when it was that it was the average, due to high infant mortality (that that's a lot lower is definitely a good change). If you survived childhood though you'd be very unlucky to only make 40. And indeed the reasons for anxiety, stress, and depression need looking at, my jibe at "progress" wasn't intended to be an in-depth analysis. Quote Personally I think about Brexit everyday and how it emblematises the rotten maggotry at the top - and yet even with Brexit they keep on winning bigger every day. But then I also have kids, plus a grandson and am particularly anxious about their futures if the feckwits 'running' the world keep leading it to ruin at an ever-faster pace. I know you do but do you think most people do? I do find it a bit odd though how you concern about the future leads to you desperately trying to maintain the status quo that brought us here. Quote The latest ruse, as i predicted 2000 odd pages ago - but now blatant - sell the UK to the USA - yup good plan. I bet they need us more than we need them. Which just brings us back to Westminster also being a big problem - indeed, a bigger one, as I've said often enough before problems with our internal management aren't a defence of the EU, it's a separate issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simvastatin Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, tomandlu said: He was doing his job - what do you expect him to do? Jesus, talk about victim-blaming - thank christ he wasn't wearing a short skirt... Saying that he was charming to his face, and a fool in private correspondence i don’t like diplomats, they are two faced i prefer Trump and Sadik Khan tell people what you think of them Edited July 11, 2019 by prozac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, prozac said: Saying that he was charming to his face, and a fool in private correspondence i don’t like diplomats, they are two faced i prefer Trump and Sadik Khan tell people what you think of them Sounds very Russian. You'd hate Japan or Victorian England. Tell everybody what you think of them is a great way to win friends and influence people /s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomandlu Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, prozac said: Saying that he was charming to his face, and a fool in private correspondence i don’t like diplomats, they are two faced i prefer Trump and Sadik Khan tell people what you think of them So, a general aversion to diplomats? I dunno - you're not making much sense. So, if he'd spent his time in Washington telling Trump what an **** he was, that somehow would have met your approval? (for the four seconds he remained in post?) Also, you might want to look up what the word "diplomatic" means... Edited July 11, 2019 by tomandlu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 17 minutes ago, Riedquat said: There is indeed good and bad progress, I just happen to presently find the majority of it unpleasant (including many bits others seem to leap on). As an aside, 40 years' lifespan is a bit misleading - when it was that it was the average, due to high infant mortality (that that's a lot lower is definitely a good change). If you survived childhood though you'd be very unlucky to only make 40. And indeed the reasons for anxiety, stress, and depression need looking at, my jibe at "progress" wasn't intended to be an in-depth analysis. I know you do but do you think most people do? I do find it a bit odd though how you concern about the future leads to you desperately trying to maintain the status quo that brought us here. Which just brings us back to Westminster also being a big problem - indeed, a bigger one, as I've said often enough before problems with our internal management aren't a defence of the EU, it's a separate issue. The status quo depends on how you view Brexit. I simply see a bunch of the same kind of spivs and shysters promising rubbish in order to enrich themselves. So as I said, the status quo, but worse. More austerity, less autonomy, more asset stripping, more tax avoidance, more inequality and generally more decline. Now if you could point me to a positive plan from anybody post-Brexit, it would be different. But there isn't one, it's all fantasies, self-interest and incompetent firefighting. That's because Brexit does nothing to alter the same old, same old - does it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simvastatin Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 15 minutes ago, tomandlu said: So, a general aversion to diplomats? I dunno - you're not making much sense. So, if he'd spent his time in Washington telling Trump what an **** he was, that somehow would have met your approval? (for the four seconds he remained in post?) Also, you might want to look up what the word "diplomatic" means... Why does he need to say negative things about Trump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 47 minutes ago, tomandlu said: Question to the tories on here - are any of you enthusiastic about a BJ premiership? (and, if so, why?) I'm not a Tory anymore, not sure what I am, political atheist? But I'll answer your question anyway. How could anyone be enthusiastic about the prospect of having a PM who thinks that bluster, a "can do" attitude and optimism are the qualities needed to run a country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomandlu Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, prozac said: Why does he need to say negative things about Trump Are you saying there are no negative things about Trump, or you don't see why diplomats need to point them out? Either way, you're being very odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, jonb2 said: The status quo depends on how you view Brexit. I simply see a bunch of the same kind of spivs and shysters promising rubbish in order to enrich themselves. So as I said, the status quo, but worse. More austerity, less autonomy, more asset stripping, more tax avoidance, more inequality and generally more decline. Yes, the bunch of shysters who are wringing their hair out over Brexit and are desperate for Remain. As for those other issues you mention (although wealth-wise our problems are entirely due to a lack of management and distribution of it rather than a lack of total wealth) they're things we should be sorting out for ourselves, not begging to be nannied. Edited July 11, 2019 by Riedquat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simvastatin Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 13 minutes ago, tomandlu said: Are you saying there are no negative things about Trump, or you don't see why diplomats need to point them out? Either way, you're being very odd. Something else, the internet means there are no secrets, every communication code has been broken by your competitors .... how do we know it might even have been the French or Russian or Chinese that put that into the public domain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, tomandlu said: Are you saying there are no negative things about Trump, or you don't see why diplomats need to point them out? Either way, you're being very odd. Diplomats should be diplomatic with the people they meet and honest and open with their own governments. That doesn't mean being two-faced - if you're behaving to the people you're dealing without expressing an opinion on them, no fake sucking up or insulting, they'll know you've got your own opinion (not necessarily what it is) and you're putting it aside for the sake of getting on with business. That requires people you work with back home also being professional enough not to leak things to score points. Edited July 11, 2019 by Riedquat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 1 minute ago, prozac said: Something else, the internet means there are no secrets, every communication code has been broken by your competitors .... how do we know it might even have been the French or Russian or Chinese that put that into the public domain I'd hope that messages between ambassadors and their home governments are sufficiently encrypted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simvastatin Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, Riedquat said: I'd hope that messages between ambassadors and their home governments are sufficiently encrypted. Whilst drinking my tea and eating my twix I know there are thousands of people out there writing codes and breaking codes We are approaching a period of a world without secrets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Riedquat said: I do find it a bit odd though how you concern about the future leads to you desperately trying to maintain the status quo that brought us here. I find it odd that you think everything apart from Brexit is the status quo, or even that there is or was a status quo option to hang onto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 52 minutes ago, tomandlu said: So, a general aversion to diplomats? I dunno - you're not making much sense. So, if he'd spent his time in Washington telling Trump what an **** he was, that somehow would have met your approval? (for the four seconds he remained in post?) Also, you might want to look up what the word "diplomatic" means... Or take a look at Wikileaks and learn what US diplomats were saying about everybody else in private. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 22 minutes ago, Riedquat said: Yes, the bunch of shysters who are wringing their hair out over Brexit and are desperate for Remain. As for those other issues you mention (although wealth-wise our problems are entirely due to a lack of management and distribution of it rather than a lack of total wealth) they're things we should be sorting out for ourselves, not begging to be nannied. Destroying our trading relationship with our biggest market is not nannying. I am desperate to remain because Brexit is a con, a scam, a ruse. To argue otherwise, please point me to the clear plan Johnson et al has for the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 1 hour ago, prozac said: Saying that he was charming to his face, and a fool in private correspondence i don’t like diplomats, they are two faced i prefer Trump and Sadik Khan tell people what you think of them Trump did a very good job of both showing that the assessment of his character was accurate and why telling him what we think of him is not a viable approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simvastatin Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 7 minutes ago, zugzwang said: Or take a look at Wikileaks and learn what US diplomats were saying about everybody else in private. Forgive me, but I actually agree with the Iranian government that wikileeks is done by the CIA or NSA or whatever it is called nowadays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 24 minutes ago, prozac said: Something else, the internet means there are no secrets, every communication code has been broken by your competitors .... how do we know it might even have been the French or Russian or Chinese that put that into the public domain If that was true there would be no money left in the banks, their codes (or more accurately end to end systems) are far less secure than those used within the UK government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 14 minutes ago, prozac said: Whilst drinking my tea and eating my twix I know there are thousands of people out there writing codes and breaking codes We are approaching a period of a world without secrets No modern codes are breakable in any useful timeframe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomandlu Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 27 minutes ago, prozac said: Whilst drinking my tea and eating my twix I know there are thousands of people out there writing codes and breaking codes We are approaching a period of a world without secrets Sigh. Do you have any understanding of how encryption works? The fact that someone posts revenge-nudes does not mean that P = NP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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