Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[winkie]

 

[jonb2]

2 minutes ago, kzb said:

John Redwood tells it like it is (my bold):

Yesterday Parliament was offered just four choices for the future, as the number of propositions was whittled down. Because it is a Remain dominated Parliament there was no Brexit option left to choose from. Leaving without signing the Withdrawal Agreement was removed and my preference for a WTO/Free Trade offer exit was not available either. We had a Customs union proposal. We were offered a plan to create Common Market 2.0 with a customs union and single market membership, implying freedom of movement, some financial  contributions and acceptance of single market laws.  We had a motion to require a confirmatory public vote for any exit plan, which would mean a referendum running any final deal against staying in, with no proper Brexit option on the ballot paper. There was finally a motion to secure a delay or failing that to revoke our notice to leave.

http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2019/04/02/different-types-of-delay/

 

Are you a labourer on John Redwood's estate?

[Big Orange]

1 hour ago, Riedquat said:

Heard about the Apu thing, that was ridiculous. Yes, he was a stereotype but so were the entire cast. Having some stereotyping in comedy is not the same as slurs and bigotry - that's the line I was talking about earlier, and failing to recognise that is why I think the world has changed but not moved on. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater isn't sensible progress.

Yeah, the sad thing is Apu was one of the smarter and likeable characters in the ensemble (certainly next to Homer, especially in the later seasons).

And stereotyping can be lazy and unfair, but is not completely groundless and has some basis in fact (which is why it gets under some people's skin because it strikes close to home).

Mr. Humphries is deemed a bad stereotypical caricature by some, but I knew one gay kid from the late 90s who shared more similarities than differences with Mr. Humphries.

 

 

Edited April 2, 2019 by Big Orange

[Riedquat]

4 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

The human race? ?

Hah

Getting serious in reply to what I take was a lighthearted dig, that's a good example of the sort of lighthearted ribbing that I don't think much of people complaining about, which I certainly wouldn't say about all your posts.

I'd written out more thoughts on this then managed to lose the damn post, but I suppose the point was just another way of wording my views on retreating to the simple (too simple for reality) black and white position rather than dealing with the subtleties and complexities of reality.

[Confusion of VIs]

1 hour ago, kzb said:

Seems unlikely we could've outperformed the rest of the EU developed economies to this extent.  We're already ahead, and this would put us even more ahead.

Wonder what would've happened if the state had got behind the result and sold it positively?

Remember that in the run up to the referendum we were forecast to strongly outperform the major EU states for the foreseeable future. I recall one even said it was the start of a golden age for the UK.

Also remember that our figures are currently being flattered by the biggest ever stockpiling exercise. 

[btd1981]

I do not understand why we are conditioned to fear acknowledging our differences with other people, instead of celebrating them. 

[zugzwang]

2 minutes ago, kzb said:

John Redwood tells it like it is (my bold):

Yesterday Parliament was offered just four choices for the future, as the number of propositions was whittled down. Because it is a Remain dominated Parliament there was no Brexit option left to choose from. Leaving without signing the Withdrawal Agreement was removed and my preference for a WTO/Free Trade offer exit was not available either. We had a Customs union proposal. We were offered a plan to create Common Market 2.0 with a customs union and single market membership, implying freedom of movement, some financial  contributions and acceptance of single market laws.  We had a motion to require a confirmatory public vote for any exit plan, which would mean a referendum running any final deal against staying in, with no proper Brexit option on the ballot paper. There was finally a motion to secure a delay or failing that to revoke our notice to leave.

http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2019/04/02/different-types-of-delay/

 

Except those soft Brexit options were the very ones that Bozzie and Govey led the Leave vote in support of! If only John Major had had the courage to kick these spiteful and demented fifth columnists out of the party thirty years ago...

[Kosmin]

3 minutes ago, kzb said:

John Redwood tells it like it is (my bold):

Yesterday Parliament was offered just four choices for the future, as the number of propositions was whittled down. Because it is a Remain dominated Parliament there was no Brexit option left to choose from. Leaving without signing the Withdrawal Agreement was removed and my preference for a WTO/Free Trade offer exit was not available either. We had a Customs union proposal. We were offered a plan to create Common Market 2.0 with a customs union and single market membership, implying freedom of movement, some financial  contributions and acceptance of single market laws.  We had a motion to require a confirmatory public vote for any exit plan, which would mean a referendum running any final deal against staying in, with no proper Brexit option on the ballot paper. There was finally a motion to secure a delay or failing that to revoke our notice to leave.

http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2019/04/02/different-types-of-delay/

The first sentence in bold is the fault of the Leave voters who voted the wrong way (primarily Labour voters not being willing to hold their nose and vote Conservative, or UKIP) in the 2017 general election.

Maybe there will be no deal, but if Redwood doesn't want to gamble on that, perhaps he should support a referendum or confirmatory vote. If article 50 is revoked, then maybe Labour-Leave voters will take the next election seriously and vote in UKIP or Farage and they can do things as they wish.

[Riedquat]

6 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

No. Everybody has a right to be offended. 

I have the right to decide whether I care about them being offended, or just regard them as another bigot using faux offence to play identity politics. 

When did I start completely agreeing with you and disagreeing with GD?

There are also those who get genuinely offended by any sort of criticism, light-hearted or otherwise, which in its own way is as intolerant as the more obviously bigoted.

[Riedquat]

2 minutes ago, btd1981 said:

I do not understand why we are conditioned to fear acknowledging our differences with other people, instead of celebrating them. 

Amen to that. Someone asked what offends me - well, that's one example. Wanting to be able to say "we're all really the same" is a terrible thing to aim for. What a miserably dull world that would be! It would be terrible to be able to go anywhere in the world and never feel out of place.

[GrizzlyDave]

14 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

 

No. Everybody has a right to be offended. 

I have the right to decide whether I care about them being offended, or just regard them as another bigot using faux offence to play identity politics.  

 

 

 Ok thanks for clarifying.

[GrizzlyDave]

7 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

When did I start completely agreeing with you and disagreeing with GD?

There are also those who get genuinely offended by any sort of criticism, light-hearted or otherwise, which in its own way is as intolerant as the more obviously bigoted.

Don’t worry - I won’t take offence.

Then again maybe I will ;-).

[Riedquat]

1 minute ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Don’t worry - I won’t take offence.

Then again maybe I will ;-).

Gammon.

[zugzwang]

2 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Remember that in the run up to the referendum we were forecast to strongly outperform the major EU states for the foreseeable future. I recall one even said it was the start of a golden age for the UK.

Also remember that our figures are currently being flattered by the biggest ever stockpiling exercise. 

Since the UK's aggregate debts, excluding the financial sector, comfortably exceed £5 trillion an enduring slump is the most likely economic prospect, inside or outside of the EU.

[kzb]

We always wish the government would plan ahead, well here we are:

<CUT>

Following Friday's vote in the House of Commons, the opportunity to guarantee that the UK would not participate in EP elections has been removed. Cabinet Office is therefore confirming that Returning Officers will be reimbursed in the usual way for any expenditure on activity that is necessarily undertaken, at this stage and in the coming weeks, to prepare for the possibility of European Parliamentary elections on Thursday 23 May 2019.

<CUT>

Rt Hon David Lidington CBE MP

https://order-order.com/2019/04/01/government-instructs-electoral-commission-prepare-european-parliament-elections/

 

 

[winkie]

 

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

2 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

It’s humour from the 1970’s.

Thought you and your ilk wanted to turn the clocks back 45 years? Please make up your minds. 

[longgone]

9 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

Since the UK's aggregate debts, excluding the financial sector, comfortably exceed £5 trillion an enduring slump is the most likely economic prospect, inside or outside of the EU.

? 

Honey i have stopped the leak i have put a 20ft high bucket under the hole in the roof.  

[GrizzlyDave]

20 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Gammon.

Ffs...

[dances with sheeple]

16 hours ago, NuBrit said:

I don't think we are going to revoke A50, but neither will we leave with no deal. The likely outcome is somewhere in between. That is where the majority lies in parliament, and dare I say the public at large. Also, whatever agreement we do come to, I don't think it's something that will be revisited anytime soon (not within 20 years). Hardcore remainers and leavers will be frustrated - the general public will be relieved and so traumatized that were will be no popular demand for the subject to be revisited. 

There is no such thing as no deal, trade is going to continue, trade continued through world wars and it is laughable that we could believe for a minute that a democratic vote to get rid of an undemocratic project is going to somehow seize up trade and movement of people and the world will stop, much more likely is that EZ citizens will vote to get rid of parties and leaders who support suppressing the will of nations and people IMO.

The "No Deal" that Project Fear love so much is WTO rules until other deals can be worked out, I believe these deals can happen quickly with the right leadership on both sides. I wouldn`t bet against a large and influential part of the Tory party now embracing and pushing for No Deal as the only way to save some of their party and the system that supports it, and as a lot of the things MP`s are now trying to vote on to change the course of this are frankly too little too late nonsense, someone yesterday still trying to tag FOM onto his bill FFS! I wouldn`t bet on the "Legal Challenge" stuff going anywhere either, it won`t get through the Lords, as they definitely want to keep the system that nourishes them intact.

Watching Soubry and the Labour guy she has teamed up with to say to the electorate "Please please please vote the way we want you to next time when our fantasy 2nd ref. happens, we promise not to let you down this time, no more messing about, this is it this time blah blah blah" - This is what happens to people who can`t mentally accept that a democratic vote went against them, the both came across as totally unhinged TBH.

Edited April 2, 2019 by dances with sheeple

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

40 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Are you a labourer on John Redwood's estate?

SIR John Redwood. Please don’t forget who your elitist masters are. 

[Riedquat]

2 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Ffs...

I'd hoped you'd recognise that as a bit of teasing rather than a serious dig, everything considered.

[GrizzlyDave]

10 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

I'd hoped you'd recognise that as a bit of teasing rather than a serious dig, everything considered.

I wasn’t sure.

I fecking hate the use of gammon so it’s always going to prickle my outrage.

Let’s just forget about it.

[GrizzlyDave]

14 minutes ago, dances with sheeple said:

There is no such thing as no deal, trade is going to continue, trade continued through world wars and it is laughable that we could believe for a minute that a democratic vote to get rid of an undemocratic project is going to somehow seize up trade and movement of people and the world will stop, much more likely is that EZ citizens will vote to get rid of parties and leaders who support suppressing the will of nations and people IMO.

The "No Deal" that Project Fear love so much is WTO rules until other deals can be worked out, I believe these deals can happen quickly with the right leadership on both sides. I wouldn`t bet against a large and influential part of the Tory party now embracing and pushing for No Deal as the only way to save some of their party and the system that supports it, and as a lot of the things MP`s are now trying to vote on to change the course of this are frankly too little too late nonsense, someone yesterday still trying to tag FOM onto his bill FFS! I wouldn`t bet on the "Legal Challenge" stuff going anywhere either, it won`t get through the Lords, as they definitely want to keep the system that nourishes them intact.

Watching Soubry and the Labour guy she has teamed up with to say to the electorate "Please please please vote the way we want you to next time when our fantasy 2nd ref. happens, we promise not to let you down this time, no more messing about, this is it this time blah blah blah" - This is what happens to people who can`t mentally accept that a democratic vote went against them, the both came across as totally unhinged TBH.

Well said!

[Riedquat]

6 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

I wasn’t sure.

I fecking hate the use of gammon so it’s always going to prickle my outrage.

Let’s just forget about it.

I hate it too. TBH I was also trying to get a roundabout dig in at JonB with that.

I'll chalk that one down as a failure!