DarkHorseWaits-NoMore Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Captain Kirk said: I doubt it, but it is unlikely to happen anyway. If it did, I think more people would vote leave this time and with no deal. People don't like being told what to do, which is why I think Obama helped the leave campaign by telling the nation we need to remain. Sounds pretty juvenile, lets hope people are not so trivial and easily manipulated over such important national decisions. 16 minutes ago, Fromage Frais said: ...I know a lot of people do not like Boris Johnson but in a critical moment of belief we love confident bombastic delivery i think only JRM could beat him in a conservative members vote. Should this bothersome nightmare ever become a reality, stop the fecking bus, I wanna get off! Jeez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Captain Kirk said: I doubt it, but it is unlikely to happen anyway. If it did, I think more people would vote leave this time and with no deal. People don't like being told what to do, which is why I think Obama helped the leave campaign by telling the nation we need to remain. Well then now Trump has told us to ditch Mays deal I guess its popularity has shot through the roof ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyboy1973 Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, pig said: Depends what the choice is. Decent soft Leave and you may be surprised. The question and the presented options would be major stumbling blocks and a massive point of contention. I think that, if they do it, they should present 3 options with a second preference - then take top two answers and add preferences from third place. Something like remain, soft (with details) and hard/no deal. Could work, and I think remain would win on that basis. As an aside, any sort of mandate that we currently have for Brexit is for soft, IMO, given 52% voted leave then only 1 in 10 of those voters would need to prefer "soft" to give a soft/remain coalition over 50%. Edited November 28, 2018 by mattyboy1973 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 16 minutes ago, ZeroSumGame said: HM Government now refusing to release the legal advice on Brexit. Unsurprisingly Keir Starmer is ready for this... The government still trying to subvert parliament. Who was talking about democracy earlier on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromage Frais Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 18 minutes ago, Itssimple said: This gdp thing that's all over the news and also been discussed here. What's the actual breakdown, by sector etc. And how much has the relentless rise in house prices skewed gdp to the positive side since the crash. Could it be that with the insane house price rises looking to turn negative, gdp would have slipped with or without brexit. Agreed Carney knows the score hence the 30-40% fall which pretty much is give or take what houses should cost less the financial jiggery pokery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 10 minutes ago, thehowler said: Why should the govt be forced to publish confidential legal advice? We're not going to war - even then it would be supervised/secure viewing, if you're lucky. If published, it will just be used for more partisan mud-slinging. Because Parliament voted to force the Executive to release it. What they wsnt to use it for is irrelevant, and if it contains mud then it should be slung. We all know the reason the goverment doesn't want it released is that the advice could be boiled down to two words - You're screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyboy1973 Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 28 minutes ago, Fromage Frais said: general election Boris Johnson wins. I think you are overstating this buffoons popularity. Granted, some of the Tory faithful love him but I think the novelty has worn off for the rest of us and frankly I think his star is well and truly on the wane. He has also demonstrated his incompetence at ministerial level as one of the worst foreign secretaries in living memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simvastatin Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 24 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Quite both Poland and Romania are now urging their citizens to come home. The days when they needed FoM are over. Getting a cap or some other form of restriction would be far easier than people make out. This reasoning is why Gordon Brown allowed all EE into the country, I guess he will be sort of right in about 10 years time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simvastatin Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, mattyboy1973 said: I think you are overstating this buffoons popularity. Granted, some of the Tory faithful love him but I think the novelty has worn off for the rest of us and frankly I think his star is well and truly on the wane. He has also demonstrated his incompetence at ministerial level as one of the worst foreign secretaries in living memory. I do wonder how popular he really is. i guess we may soon find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 23 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Quite both Poland and Romania are now urging their citizens to come home. The days when they needed FoM are over. Getting a cap or some other form of restriction would be far easier than people make out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroSumGame Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 23 minutes ago, thehowler said: Why should the govt be forced to publish confidential legal advice? We're not going to war - even then it would be supervised/secure viewing, if you're lucky. If published, it will just be used for more partisan mud-slinging. Because Parliament has already voted for it, and Parliament is sovereign. And while I'm at it, Parliament can also force the government to revoke A50 if it so votes - according to HMG's own published legal advice. Democracy in action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyboy1973 Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 1 minute ago, prozac said: I do wonder how popular he really is. i guess we may soon find out. Yeah. I mean, I could be completely wrong but my feeling is that there are enough Tory MPs against him to stop him even getting on the leadership ballot, although I think he would probably win it if he did and it went to a members' vote since that is the precise demographic that loves him. Not convinced he would be the people's choice in a GE now though, and also think that maybe the electorate has had just about enough of these Tories regardless of the alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, prozac said: This reasoning is why Gordon Brown allowed all EE into the country, I guess he will be sort of right in about 10 years time If that was his thinking (which I doubt) he will be proved right a lot quicker than that. FoM was always going to peak and then decline rapidly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneCernan Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 I think May is going to win the vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromage Frais Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Captain Kirk said: I doubt it, but it is unlikely to happen anyway. If it did, I think more people would vote leave this time and with no deal. People don't like being told what to do, which is why I think Obama helped the leave campaign by telling the nation we need to remain. I agree I am not strong leave or remain as we are ******ed either way until someone address quality of life rather than amount of debt. I did however take a bit of delight in seeing people on the remain side realise they did not know who they were dealing with. I could argue that any African former colony would be better under our rule again.... try and say that an African and they will tell you to do one. National identity is dignity for many. I see the people's vote and the BBC feel that the positions have shifted to 52% remain....I think most thought remain was a shoehorn before the first vote also. Remain will be sold as subjugation and defeat which is hard to fight with facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Captain Kirk said: I doubt it, but it is unlikely to happen anyway. If it did, I think more people would vote leave this time and with no deal. People don't like being told what to do, which is why I think Obama helped the leave campaign by telling the nation we need to remain. ? ? ? What does he told people, when they voted for him twice to become president? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 16 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Because Parliament voted to force the Executive to release it. What they wsnt to use it for is irrelevant, and if it contains mud then it should be slung. We all know the reason the goverment doesn't want it released is that the advice could be boiled down to two words - You're screwed. Fine, publish it all. You've already decided what's in it and as you say, it's only to be used to further undermine the UK govt's Brexit position and won't change your mind in any way at all. Then we can start publishing the govt's confidential legal advice on every issue facing the country, why not, let's get it all out there, full transparency. Your actions will have set the precedent. Any why stop there, let's just put a camera in cabinet. There are so many leaks there's little confidentiality as things stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 32 minutes ago, mattyboy1973 said: Second referendum and remain is the most likely outcome, IMO. Everything now is trying to drive us in that direction. It will be interesting to see, if Labour go for 2nd ref in manifesto, whether that will be enough to gather GE votes from the less politically aligned, on the basis of 1 term of Labour is better than a generation out of the EU. It could happen. Don't see Boris winning a TOry leadership contest, either. They'll go for someone dull if they do it. Looking forward to Labour doing what they say they'll do in a manifesto, like, er, the last one where they said they supported leaving the EU! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromage Frais Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, mattyboy1973 said: I think you are overstating this buffoons popularity. Granted, some of the Tory faithful love him but I think the novelty has worn off for the rest of us and frankly I think his star is well and truly on the wane. He has also demonstrated his incompetence at ministerial level as one of the worst foreign secretaries in living memory. It will not matter. He just has to be more interesting than corbyn. incompetence at ministerial level vs who would you rather listen to on tv/drink down pub Good old boris he is not politically correct just like me and of course they slag him off those remaining/snowflake/commie/SJW civil servants. etc etc Sadly once you get notoriety a la trump you become like the incredible Hulk and any shit thrown at you makes you more powerful. When you have star power your own press cannot stop covering you and so does your enemies press it's all about you not them! i see he is being slagged off on twitter today for being lazy in the foreign office which reminds me of this.. "I divide my officers into four groups. There are clever, diligent, stupid, and lazy officers. Usually two characteristics are combined. Some are clever and diligent -- their place is the General Staff. The next lot are stupid and lazy -- they make up 90 percent of every army and are suited to routine duties. Anyone who is both clever and lazy is qualified for the highest leadership duties, because he possesses the intellectual clarity and the composure necessary for difficult decisions. One must beware of anyone who is stupid and diligent -- he must not be entrusted with any responsibility because he will always cause only mischief." Kurt von Hammerstein Edited November 28, 2018 by Fromage Frais Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 6 hours ago, kzb said: Actually, the uneducated and the old should not be on the voting register. The only people allowed to vote should be 16-50 year olds educated to degree level as a minimum (16-18 year olds are allowed without a degree of course). The poll result would be determined by the response on Twitter, determined by preselected key words. In fact I would go further and remove voting by people altogether. The correct result would be determined by running manifestos through the Treasury economic model and seeing which gave the best GDP outcome. The ramblings of an insane person. Nothing to do with what I said. Perhaps we shouldn't let insane people vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 22 minutes ago, ZeroSumGame said: Because Parliament has already voted for it, and Parliament is sovereign. And while I'm at it, Parliament can also force the government to revoke A50 if it so votes - according to HMG's own published legal advice. Democracy in action. There's no moral case for it, it's a political spat facilitated by the speaker and arcane procedure, and it's unprecedented. But maybe you're right, perhaps all legal advice given to all govts should now be freely available! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 22 minutes ago, GeneCernan said: I think May is going to win the vote. Will take quite a shift this coming week. May doesn't look like she's quitting yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromage Frais Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, thehowler said: Looking forward to Labour doing what they say they'll do in a manifesto, like, er, the last one where they said they supported leaving the EU! The problem with labour is they are just as divided. Like the Queen Corbyn's greatest power is that of the silent position so that either side can say ... he is on our side. The civil servant, pro refugee, pro immigration, pro high house prices, vote for pay rise labour. = Remain Vs Commie, momentum, burn the rich, NUS managers type crowd = Remain and some Brexit (to facilitate nationalisation)....and also seem to be in charge of the labour party (aside from mps) vs Tough area white working class, anti immigration, anti islam etc = mainly Brexit not an easy balance Edited November 28, 2018 by Fromage Frais Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyboy1973 Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 24 minutes ago, GeneCernan said: I think May is going to win the vote. As an outside bet, you never know! Maybe not first time round, but if she loses by a couple of dozen or less then maybe on a second go with a few tweaks? It would probably piss the hard brexiteers off more than anyone but there wouldn't be an awful lot they could do about it once it was through parliament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, thehowler said: Will take quite a shift this coming week. May doesn't look like she's quitting yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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