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wonderpup

Conspiracy Theory

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For the record I do not believe that the 'establishment' or one of it's many obscure clandestine outgrowths would or did groom a madman with a grudge to murder a british MP days before a vote that has huge national and international signficance in an attempt to manipulate the outcome. I do not beleive that to be true.

However I do not completely disbelieve it either- there is just enough doubt in my mind as to the plausibility of the idea to give me pause- so while I dismiss the idea I do so with that fractional moment of hesitiation which I think explains why conspiracy theories have such a hold on the public imagination.

About 10 years ago I was in a newsagent and the little old lady in front of me was chatting with the owner about a story in the paper concerning the then deceased Princess of wales. I can't recall a single word that old lady said except for the following- she said " Well- we know they killed her, don't we" Who 'they' were was not explained and I doubt that the old lady could have articulated herself who she was accusing- but what I recal most vividly about the incident was the entirely matter of fact way that this ordinary woman accepted the idea that the Princess of wales had been killed by the british establishment.

The problem. of course, is synchronisity. The death of Diana was extraordinarily convenient in it's timing for an establishment that was clearly opposed to the company she was keeping at that time- just as the murder of an MP by a supposed anti EU maniac days before a brexit referendum seems equally uncanny in it's timing and utility for the establishment side of the argument.

The fact that our maniac even allegedly came equipped with anti EU slogans in a neat soundbite form again seems almost supernaturally convenient if your objective was to discredit the position of those advocating Brexit.

Of course the most likely explaination here is not some evil estabilisment conspiracy but the tragic confluence of a febrile political atmosphere and a deeply disturbed mind. But the problem is that 'most likely' is not the same as absolutely certain.

And- if I am honest- the time span between my hearing of the killing and the formation in my mind of a conspiracy theory to explain it was approximately two or three minutes- so in my case at least the most unlikely explination was the very first one that presented itself to me.

So I find myself asking what does this mean? And what are the implications in a world now so interconnected that memes can traverse the globe at the speed of light. Can a spin doctor revolve that fast? I don't think they can.

It used to be the case that controlling the narrative was a unidirectional business- you simply pointed your media at the public and pulled the trigger. But today that is no longer the case- because now the hive mind has evolved a rudimentary self awareness that allows ideas to escape into the wild and multiply- we call it 'going viral'- a phrase that perfectly captures the ability of ideas and memes to breed and mutuate at an alarming rate, far beyond the plodding control of the former masters of the universe inside the organs of government. We don't hear much about the spin doctors these days because they have become virtually redundant in a world where 'public opinion' is an emergent property of the public themselves as opposed to some malleable protoplasm to be shaped by a spiv in a sharp suit.

So although the consensus seems to be that this tragic killing is a threat to the leave campaign there is a scenario in which the real damage done is to the remain campaign- in this scenario that fractional hesitation to dismiss the idea that-somehow- the establishment groomed a patsy to do it's dirty work, becomes a meme that goes viral, and in so doing introduces just enough doubt and suspicion in the minds of a core demographic to sway the outcome toward leave.

And yes- this analysis is itself propagating that meme even as it deconstructs it- but ask youself a question- when you heard the terrible news of this murder how long did it take for your mind to spontanously evolve the conspiracy theory that someone, somewhere,inside the 'establishment' had orchestrated the event? The elites seem to have entirely lost the confidence of the population and this is the price- we cannot entirely dismiss even the most outrageous notions because we cannot any longer trust the morals or the motives of those who govern us.

The power and reach of any conspiracy theory is not measured by it's plausibility but by the degree to which we believe that the imagined conspirators would be morally capable of carrying out that conspiracy.

Ask me if a desperate establishment would be capable of grooming a madman to kill an MP and I will reply that I am almost certain that such a thing is impossible . But ask me if I am absolutely certain and I can't quite get there.

What this says about me or about the state of our society is anyone's guess- but it can't be a good thing that the first thought that springs to the mind of a reasonably intelligent observer following an event like this is that the estabishment somehow manufactured it- can lt?

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I considered the chance it was planned as soon as i heard about it.The real kicker here is her birthday falls one day before the vote.When the public finds this out i think there will be many who will wake up, this cannot be a mere coincidence.

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It would be very easy to do. Get an agent dressed in similar clothes to suspect. Do the crime. Drop some evidence in his house. Kick him out the back of the van drugged up. Let the cops find him.

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It would be very easy to do. Get an agent dressed in similar clothes to suspect. Do the crime. Drop some evidence in his house. Kick him out the back of the van drugged up. Let the cops find him.

Just to throw some fuel on the conspiracy fire, you wouldn't need a person impersonating the suspect.

Have a look at the government mind control MKUltra experiments that were used on vulnerable people from the 50's upwards. I'm sure the alphabet agencies have played a hand in quite a few political agendas through the years.

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Just to throw some fuel on the conspiracy fire, you wouldn't need a person impersonating the suspect.

Have a look at the government mind control MKUltra experiments that were used on vulnerable people from the 50's upwards. I'm sure the alphabet agencies have played a hand in quite a few political agendas through the years.

I was gonna keep it simple and not go down the mind control street, but yes I agree. Unfortunately the general population would never accept it even existed.

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Once you start down the conspiracy route its a bottom less pit...you see it everywhere.

That said this incident has hijacked the news on the last weekend before the vote.

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I always assumed that by the fact they were allowing a referendum at all it was likely planned the electorate would vote out. Subsequently interest rates would be jacked up and the economy trashed to the backdrop of Britain being unable to cope economically outside the EU.

The EU would then ride to the rescue on the condition Britain accepts the Euro. I had always assumed this was therefore a ploy to force the British population to accept the Euro by proffering the false hope of leaving the EU.

Now I'm not so sure. I have a feeling what we are seeing is the manifestation of some behind the scenes power struggle between some major elite factions. I wonder if the Queen or the Duke of Edinburgh have gone off the EU or something. The vote seems to really matter and I always assumed they could just rig it in any case. You could easily have different coloured voting slips for different choices or pens instead of pencils so it's always seemed to be a system designed to allow a certain amount of finessing.

The leaking of the books order from the US certainly seems like the work of an intelligence agency so there is definitely some degree of conspiracy going on.

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I think anybody who insists there's no conspiracy theories must therefore automatically believe in some pretty amazing coincidences, which always seem to conveniently ensure the establishment/TPTB achieve their particular agenda.

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The conspiracy is the way the actions of a maniac have been spun so that the gullible think it's something to do with the referendum.

One of the witnesses that was alleged to have "heard" the man shout 'britain first' by certain sectors of the media has denied he ever heard such a thing. In response that sector have claimed that he's been forced to that for fear of being victimization.

I can't stomach that we have free speech yet any mention of migration is greeted with the Wilsonism of racism. The media often collude.

Hiding from the truth isn't going to solve these issues only encourage them to fester into something far worse.

Closing down people's fears and doubt is a real conspiracy.

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It is all the more reason why Leave should be calling for a postponement. If Remain accept, then Leave get a chance of people calming down and debate kickstarted ahead of the vote. If Remain refuse, that seed of doubt you mention gets a little water.

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I wonder what the fallout from this referendum will be if either side wins?

Surely it wont be the last we hear of it? Any win is likely to be marginal, and people have strong feelings. I think whatever the result, Labour are going to take a battering in north England.

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The conspiracy is the way the actions of a maniac have been spun so that the gullible think it's something to do with the referendum.

One of the witnesses that was alleged to have "heard" the man shout 'britain first' by certain sectors of the media has denied he ever heard such a thing. In response that sector have claimed that he's been forced to that for fear of being victimization.

I can't stomach that we have free speech yet any mention of migration is greeted with the Wilsonism of racism. The media often collude.

Hiding from the truth isn't going to solve these issues only encourage them to fester into something far worse.

Closing down people's fears and doubt is a real conspiracy.

If remain win. UKIP will be a main beneficiary as outers get more hostile and move from the traditional parties.

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The most striking thing for me so far with the coverage is the use of this awful incident to try and convince the public that our politicians are all wonderful people who always have our interests paramount in their minds. I'm not commenting on this poor lady in particular here obviously, but in a general sense.

And that (peaceful) disengagement/disillusionment with the political process is somehow dangerous rather than a perfectly legitimate and rational choice - given the way things have played out in the run up to and after the 'global financial crisis'.

I've seen more than a couple of random friend of friend diatribe Facebook shares with this as well, and that to me is the most disturbing aspect of this, accept what we have rather than campaign (again in a peaceful, rational way) for something better.

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I always think of the odds more than anything.

What are the odds on being the most famous woman on earth and the odds of dying in a car crash. The odds of being about to form the first far right anti-migrant anti-eu government in the EU and dying in a car crash.

In this event I do not see a conspiracy in what happened but in what happened afterwards. Everyone was ready to go with an agenda straight off.

Sad as what happened is, democracy and debate on if we should remain in the EU should not have been suspended for 1 second.

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I always think of the odds more than anything.

The odds of being about to form the first far right anti-migrant anti-eu government in the EU and dying in a car crash.

Why is wanting to control immigration "anti-migrant" and "far right"? In which case, every country on the planet, bar the 28 in the EU, are far right and anti-migrant.

By the way, I take your point on the odds of it happening. The vitcim is a young-ish, female Remain MP a week before the referendum whose birthday is on 22nd June, and the perpetrator HAD to state "Britain First". Seed sown.

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If the establishment were willing to break the law to influence the outcome of the referendum, why go to the trouble of arranging the murder of an MP when they could just tamper with the ballots?

Seems a bit far fetched to me.

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What I'm seeing now in the media is that nice,upstanding people would vote Remain, hateful people would vote Leave. Do be a nice, upstanding person.

They've conflated one-worldism (pandas and rainbows) with the EU project.

And yet the EU has caused misery to millions...! Ask anyone amongst the 10% to 40% unemployed in Spain, Italy, Greece, Portugal, France. It will usher in more countries, and TTIP, and we lose more and more control over decisions that affect our lives. That is not one-worldism - that's a dictatorship.

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If the establishment were willing to break the law to influence the outcome of the referendum, why go to the trouble of arranging the murder of an MP when they could just tamper with the ballots?

Seems a bit far fetched to me.

If it ever got out that they tampered with the vote, then how can any future vote be taken seriously? What if you could influence how people vote, and that people accept the vote as genuine?

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It seems ludicrous that something like this could be planned, but then you look at http://uk.reuters.com/article/global-markets-idUKL1N19919S

"Sterling and bond yields rose on Friday as traders tried to assess whether the killing of a pro-EU British lawmaker may change the balance of opinions in Britain's upcoming referendum on European Union membership."

So the markets were very unnerved by the polls showing Brexit pulling away in the lead, then Jo Cox is murdered and the markets immediately jump as they assume this single act will swing the vote back to Remain. That stinks. It is suspicious timing.

One trader is quoted by This is Money as saying: "The murder of UK Labour MP Jo Cox, a proponent for remaining in the EU, in what appears to have been a politically motivated act sent shockwaves through world markets."

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I always assumed that by the fact they were allowing a referendum at all it was likely planned the electorate would vote out. Subsequently interest rates would be jacked up and the economy trashed to the backdrop of Britain being unable to cope economically outside the EU.

The EU would then ride to the rescue on the condition Britain accepts the Euro. I had always assumed this was therefore a ploy to force the British population to accept the Euro by proffering the false hope of leaving the EU.

Now I'm not so sure. I have a feeling what we are seeing is the manifestation of some behind the scenes power struggle between some major elite factions. I wonder if the Queen or the Duke of Edinburgh have gone off the EU or something. The vote seems to really matter and I always assumed they could just rig it in any case. You could easily have different coloured voting slips for different choices or pens instead of pencils so it's always seemed to be a system designed to allow a certain amount of finessing.

The leaking of the books order from the US certainly seems like the work of an intelligence agency so there is definitely some degree of conspiracy going on.

It is very interesting.Why murder Cox if they can just rig the vote? Unless this was just to get the polls back within 2-3% so that rigging is possible.7-8%+ it becomes far harder to rig perhaps?

As for your first scenario i don't see it that way at all.If the UK leaves then the Euro currency will crash hard and Europe as a whole will crash too.This could be enough to put Deutsche Bank under because we all know that bank is already teetering.All bets are off.

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I always think of the odds more than anything.

What are the odds on being the most famous woman on earth and the odds of dying in a car crash. The odds of being about to form the first far right anti-migrant anti-eu government in the EU and dying in a car crash.

In this event I do not see a conspiracy in what happened but in what happened afterwards. Everyone was ready to go with an agenda straight off.

Sad as what happened is, democracy and debate on if we should remain in the EU should not have been suspended for 1 second.

What were the odds of last weeks lotto jackpot winner matching all 6 balls?

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Im an ex councillor,my family members have been mayor's within the last 20 years.In doing so i have of course met and spent time with MPs.In doing so i have seen first hand that almost all of them have no idea,or have nothing in common with the people who vote them in and seem to be from some sort of secret club.

However crazy it might seem,the first thing i thought was the elite/establishment were desperate and murdered her to force a remain vote.Pick an MP who has spent most of her time in power campaigning for foreign people over the ones who voted for her.You couldnt pick a more open borders,let everyone in,superstate EU MP.Someone the "Right/Leave" would "hate".Im not saying that did happen,like the op,its just the fact it crossed my mind first.

Now the very fact this did cross my mind,however crazy it seems, shows how badly out of step the ordinary people are now with the establishment/elite.Nobody trusts them.This isnt the fault of the people.Its the fact most of our MPs,and most of the establishment lie 100% of the time.They simply do not have the interests of the people at heart.People know it.They dont like thinking it,but deep inside they know it.

I think we were heading for Brexit,if we now remain i do think this terrible murder might of swung things.It will depend on how far Leave were ahead.What is certain is the people and the establishment are enemies.That is a very dangerous situation indeed.The venom i see in people for the EU and the "destruction" of our way of life will need an outlet.Brexit would do it,without Brexit im not sure how things will play out in the years ahead.

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