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The Official Brexit - Remain Thread - All New Threads Will Be Merged Into This One


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I was in the middle of a debate yesterday with more than a dozen people and one loud mouth. I came away looking at the coming referendum with different and more optimistic eyes. It was probably a 50 50 discussion on whether to leave or not with the one loud mouth and over opinionated bloke let it be known that most of the vote out people were closet racists etc.

When ever I see anti euro types on the TV or media you always get this air of they are right wing racist nutcases. At the moment the polls are probably even, but how many I wonder will say they want to stay in pub;lic and vote no on the day. Just like so many people are ashamed to admit they vote Tory.

The reason why I started this thread was I sensed a large shift in opinion on the EU over the few years.

Go back 10 years and Mr average UK used to huff + puff about odds and sods but the affect on most were pretty minor.

You'd here a couple of pro comments - We went to France + Belgain and did not change curency. Then we too kthe left overs to Spain.

Anti-EUers were restricted to Colonel Blimps in the home counties, or fishermen, who'd sold all there quota to the SPanish without realising they do not get it back.

Now ..... its all changed.

The whole Greece thing has brought EU blundering onto the TV screens.

People look at horrors at the stream on North African scum piling into Greece and heading for the UK.

Then you have the few people aware of how bad Brown's tax credits are and how much its costing the Uk to import ~15% of Eastern Eruope and pay them ~1k/month to work 16h hours at Tescos.

Then you have the Roma issue.

If Cameron wanted to stay i nthe EU they should have movd quicker on TCs at least.

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An interesting angle from Farage:

The most bizarre thing Mr Cameron said, is with this deal, he would now vote for Britain to join the European Union, so lets have a little think about that, if the question in June was ‘should we join the European Union’ we’d have to tell the British people, you have to surrender the control and sovereignty of your parliament and have 75% of your laws made somewhere else. Your supreme court will not be supreme, you will be overruled by a court in Luxemburg made up of people who aren’t even judges, you will have to give up your fishing grounds, including in some cases 200 miles of the North Sea and you must cut your links with the Commonwealth and the wider world, because you are no longer fit to negotiate your own global trade deals.
Oh and by the way, for all of this, you will be paying £55 million a day as a membership fee. Would the British people vote for that? Not a snowballs chance in Hades.
And all we have to do is recognise, that while the politicians and the big banks and the big businesses defend their own vested self interests, it’s people power that will win this referendum, and, after we’ve won this referendum, I hope in many other countries in Europe.

He's got a point.

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The bookies say he hasn't got a point

https://m.oddschecker.com/t/politics/british-politics/eu-referendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result

3 to 1 on that the UK stays in the EU.

Farage= history.

Maybe, but did the bookies or you read what he said. Edited by GloomMonger
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An interesting angle from Farage:

He's got a point.

The alternative being run by a bunch of hedge funds, unelected landowners and an assortment of political appointees in the "Lords" from London?

Yup, Id vote for the EU

But since it isn't the question or the actuality it's an irrelevant straw man.

Edited by R K
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The Cypriot bail in episode was, for me at least, the day when the EU dream died.

Why should depositers be bailed out when the bank, in which they INVESTED, goes bust? They shouldn't.

THAT is why - they say - we HAD to bail out the failed banks in 2008!

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Why should depositers be bailed out when the bank, in which they INVESTED, goes bust? They shouldn't.

THAT is why - they say - we HAD to bail out the failed banks in 2008!

Yes, bail-ins (creditor funds) are fairer than bail-outs (taxpayer funds) but of course the prospect of overtly losing 'cash' in the bank would scare people quite a bit and maybe make them question the nature of banking. Hence we get all sorts of provision being made for bail-ins behind the scenes but next to no media coverage of said provisions and no public discussion/awareness.

We are also seeing an increasingly obvious campaign to abolish physical cash - which will be needed in order to make ever more extreme financial measures like negative interest rates or likely bail-ins work. If TPTB have their way, the average person will have little choice but to hold any wealth they have in the form of bank credit. Again, no mainstream media coverage.

All very sneaky. All very sinister. Yet if you even try to discuss it you are almost automatically labelled a conspiracy theory lunatic in the eyes of the ordinary person.

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EU deal unravels as it emerges migrants from some countries will get HIGHER child benefits than UK families

David Cameron faced a blistering backlash from Tory MPs last night as his 'deal' to curb immigration spectacularly unravelled. Incredibly, the small print of the draft deal reveals that some overseas workers – far from losing their child benefit altogether – would receive even more.

30DA54FA00000578-3430686-image-a-4_14545

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Since when did the issue of people's disaffection with EU membership boil down to one or two 'hot topics' in the mainstream media anyway? Those who want to leave the EU are upset about much more than child benefits being available to EU workers or the current refugee crisis (the UK already has exercised an opt out of the EC policy on that anyway).

Yet as usual a small number of restricted 'Talking Points' are created and discussed endlessly to the exclusion of other more relevant issues, by the media.

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Incredibly, the small print of the draft deal reveals that some overseas workers – far from losing their child benefit altogether – would receive even more.

Entirely predictable when any eu nation can veto any UK proposal.

Dave's blow harding in support of his deal is paricularly unconvincing.

It was all just an excuse for some expensive jollies all around europe.

He would have been far better advised to have returned early and admitted that a reasonable outcome for the UK was impossible and held an early referendum.

Edited by billybong
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Entirely predictable when any eu nation can veto any UK proposal.

Dave's blow harding in support of his deal is paricularly unconvincing.

It was all just an excuse for some expensive jollies all around europe.

He would have been far better advised to have returned early and admitted that a reasonable outcome for the UK was impossible and held an early referendum.

He would have been advised to reform tax credits and work on the 'intentionally homeless' scheme to deny HB to EEs.

Oh, and insist of some sort of IT interconnect between the UK and the EU nation to verify the claims.

That'll delay any claim by 10 years.

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He would have been advised to reform tax credits and work on the 'intentionally homeless' scheme to deny HB to EEs.

Oh, and insist of some sort of IT interconnect between the UK and the EU nation to verify the claims.

That'll delay any claim by 10 years.

They could stipulate that any migrants would have to registered on UC before they receive anything. As it won't be up at least 2021, problem solved.

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Chamberlain_paper.jpg


"I believe we are making real progress in all four areas but the process is far from over. There are details that still need to be pinned down and intense negotiations to try and agree the deal with 27 other countries.

"It will require hard work, determination and patience to see it through but I believe that with these draft texts and with all the work we have done with our European partners Britain is getting closer to the decision point."

History rhymes again

Edited by billybong
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Polls are looking good for a brexit ... story

A YouGov poll for The Times newspaper - the first since a draft of changes to the UK’s relationship with the EU was published - found that 45 per cent planned to vote for a ‘Brexit’, compared to 36 per cent who want the UK to remain an EU member.
Edited by goldbug9999
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Polls are looking good for a brexit ... story

Thats the reason for me starting the thread.

In December, when I started the thread, polls were coming back with 40% OUT 60% IN.

A quick poll of people I know came back opposite.

And this was before the Eagles of Death metal shoot up and Cologne.

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I don't believe for a second the UK will vote to leave and, in the massively unlikely event that it does, I don't believe it will be allowed to go just like that. There will be years of wrangling and threats along with repeat referenda on re-joining on 'better' terms. The Germans need us to buy their cars, the French need us to buy their wine and the Spanish need somewhere for their trawlers to go.

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I don't believe for a second the UK will vote to leave and, in the massively unlikely event that it does, I don't believe it will be allowed to go just like that. There will be years of wrangling and threats along with repeat referenda on re-joining on 'better' terms. The Germans need us to buy their cars, the French need us to buy their wine and the Spanish need somewhere for their trawlers to go.

I agree except the economic argument is red herring. We will buy exactly the same amout of stuff after as before (and they will buy our stuff) Even the most positive economic analysise only seem to suggest it makes a couple of percentage points difference.

What our faux democratic über masters like is having political clout in the world, which depends on numbers plus economic and military power.

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