knock out johnny Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) I think Germany and some of the Scandinavian countries have similar schemes. The Eastern european countries certainly don't I've seen that in France anything bigger than a Dad and Son size business and the social perks and benefits for staff become completely eye-watering. It's absolutely stifling small business Edited July 13, 2016 by knock out johnny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssKay Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 It could well be that way ,but you seem to miss the point ,they will be out of power come the next GE an they know it it`s their choice,do the job or lose theirs ..we will find out how many turkeys are willing to vote for Christmas Out of power at the next GE ? I don't think so.. Who do you think is going to challenge them? Labour? They're in disarray and would never offer stronger immigration curbs than the Tories LibDems? Even more of a shambles than Labour UKIP? Maybe in 2-3 GEs if the country keeps lurching to the right, but they certainly aren't going to get anywhere near the levers of power at the next GE No - the Tories will implement Brexit lite and the majority of the country will accept it, with no more referendums to be offered, ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssKay Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 I've seen that in France anything bigger than a Dad and Son size business and the social perks and benefits for staff become completely eye-watering. It's absolutely stifling small business That wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Very good. 9/10. That's some very good propaganda indeed. Except for the fact that most of our exports are to The big wide world outside of the EU. Out of power at the next GE ? I don't think so.. Who do you think is going to challenge them? Labour? They're in disarray and would never offer stronger immigration curbs than the Tories LibDems? Even more of a shambles than Labour UKIP? Maybe in 2-3 GEs if the country keeps lurching to the right, but they certainly aren't going to get anywhere near the levers of power at the next GE No - the Tories will implement Brexit lite and the majority of the country will accept it, with no more referendums to be offered, ever Totally agree. Number 1 on the list for the TPTB is to stop the Leave turkeys that did indeed vote for the Xmas of what-a-single-market-exit-would-actually-do-to-the-economy. I think it was Sunderland that declared first or so on referendum night with a big swing for Leave. If we exit the single market seeyabaye Nissan! What is Sunderland going to flog to the rest of the World to make up for that? The economy wins elections first and foremost and the Tories know that all too well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer466 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Out of power at the next GE ? I don't think so.. Who do you think is going to challenge them? Labour? They're in disarray and would never offer stronger immigration curbs than the Tories LibDems? Even more of a shambles than Labour UKIP? Maybe in 2-3 GEs if the country keeps lurching to the right, but they certainly aren't going to get anywhere near the levers of power at the next GE No - the Tories will implement Brexit lite and the majority of the country will accept it, with no more referendums to be offered, ever The new girl did say BREXIT means BREXIT...... And she has been making the right noises about reducing immigration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XswampyX Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) Totally agree. Number 1 on the list for the TPTB is to stop the Leave turkeys that did indeed vote for the Xmas of what-a-single-market-exit-would-actually-do-to-the-economy. I think it was Sunderland that declared first or so on referendum night with a big swing for Leave. If we exit the single market seeyabaye Nissan! What is Sunderland going to flog to the rest of the World to make up for that? The economy wins elections first and foremost and the Tories know that all too well. So the people who voted for brext in Sunderland are now worried about Nissan and the economy...... right. They will vote for EU membership because of this and won't feel betrayed..... right. and will now vote conservative after generations of voting labour..... right. It all sounds like a lot of wishful thinking dreaming from somebody who is in denial about everything. Who are these PTB? It's seems to me that they have all recently resigned. Why is this? Is it because we are staying in the EU and nothing is going to change? Your dreams are nothing but pi$$ in the wind. Edited July 13, 2016 by XswampyX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knock out johnny Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 That is pretty much what will happen. TBTB both here and in the EU want to retain full and reciprocal access to the single market above all else. The stuff some of the Leave campaign peddled about the UK sticking two fingers up at the single market and instead trading massively with the rest of the World after we leave is just nonsense. I think I read that we export more to the Republic of Ireland than we do to China and Australia combined, and both of those economies are now tanking. And as for the Commonwealth, we have been outsourcing not exporting to most of those countries during the last 10-15 years - IT, call centres, etc. Basically the post financial crisis UK export economy is flogging financial services to the EU, assembling cars for the EU, selling pharmaceuticals, mostly to the EU, tourism (mostly EU visitors), and flogging PCL property and shoe-box 'luxury flats' (and now the Chinese and Russians have gone we need the EU buyers for these more than ever). So the 'negotiation' will really about how both the UK and the EU can continue in the single market with us 'winning' something for formally leaving the EU (e.g. some sort of FOM concession) and the EU 'punishing' us for having left (think along the lines of we will still pay membership fees and conform with EU Regs to sell our stuff, even though we now have no vote, plus something on top for a headline) but also using the negotiation outcome to sell a narrative about how the EU has 'learnt lessons', 'shown it is flexible and can adapt', has 'listened to the voice of the people', etc. To think anything else will happen is very naive indeed. Good reasoned post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 So the people who voted for brext in Sunderland are now worried about Nissan and the economy...... right. They will vote for EU membership because of this and won't feel betrayed..... right. and will now vote conservative after generations of voting labour..... right. It all sounds like a lot of wishful thinking dreaming from somebody who is in denial about everything. Who are these PTB? It's seems to me that they have all recently resigned. Why is this? Is it because we are staying in the EU and nothing is going to change? Your dreams are nothing but pi$$ in the wind. I am saying the people in Sunderland voted Leave to a greater extent than the overall UK. But if Nissan went and said it was because of the outcome of the referendum they would surely start to question whether that was they voted for. I remember Sunderland in the early 80's and then how it changed after Nissan gave it a new lease of life. Of course the people in Sunderland will continue to vote Labour, not UKIP, regardless of how Brexit pans out. The people in Surrey stockbroker belts will continue to vote Tory, not UKIP, on the same basis. Hence the way we Brexit will not make any party 'toast' in a General Election. I have posted before about how the outcome WILL be that leave the EU. I am simply saying how I think that Leave will now manifest itself. You call it as 'wishful thinking / dreaming'. So, how do you call it? And TPTB always are eternally responsible for HPI but suddenly do not exist when Brexit is being discussed..... come on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long time lurking Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Out of power at the next GE ? I don't think so.. Who do you think is going to challenge them? Labour? They're in disarray and would never offer stronger immigration curbs than the Tories LibDems? Even more of a shambles than Labour UKIP? Maybe in 2-3 GEs if the country keeps lurching to the right, but they certainly aren't going to get anywhere near the levers of power at the next GE No - the Tories will implement Brexit lite and the majority of the country will accept it, with no more referendums to be offered, ever An the UK would never vote leave the bookies are always right the polls say we are staying ,you seem so confident you must be part of government,,,Cameron`s government who were wrong from word go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long time lurking Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) David Davis minister for Brexit . Edited July 13, 2016 by long time lurking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 An the UK would never vote leave the bookies are always right the polls say we are staying ,you seem so confident you must be part of government,,,Cameron`s government who were wrong from word go So the vote went Leave. I get it and accept it. The problem is you do not. You think voting Leave meant this or that, (edit and fill with appropriate text depending which Leave campaigner you listened to).... But in reality my point is that it will mean what TPTB decide it will mean. Leave the EU we will. But HOW are we going to do that? Not how SHOULD we? But how WILL we? That's the only agenda now. I have given my prediction. So, my Leave friends, what is yours? Not what it SHOULD be but what it WILL it be? We can then all come back here in 12-18 months time and see who got it right.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XswampyX Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long time lurking Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 So the vote went Leave. I get it and accept it. The problem is you do not. You think voting Leave meant this or that, (edit and fill with appropriate text depending which Leave campaigner you listened to).... But in reality my point is that it will mean what TPTB decide it will mean. Leave the EU we will. But HOW are we going to do that? Not how SHOULD we? But how WILL we? That's the only agenda now. I have given my prediction. So, my Leave friends, what is yours? Not what it SHOULD be but what it WILL it be? We can then all come back here in 12-18 months time and see who got it right.... My crystal ball dose not work no better than yours so i have not got a clue all i know is our government will be answerable for the decisions they make as those decisions will be theirs alone ...that`s what matters to me ...... the rest is just speculation at this point I knew full well, exactly what i was voting for and it was not a GE, there were no policy's on offer i had no expectations of the future if the vote went my way other than that stated above ,there`s limitless scenarios going forward i will leave that to the clairvoyants ...as as far as i`m concerned it`s job done IMO they have appointed the best man as minister for Brexit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepLurker Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) Totally agree. Number 1 on the list for the TPTB is to stop the Leave turkeys that did indeed vote for the Xmas of what-a-single-market-exit-would-actually-do-to-the-economy. I think it was Sunderland that declared first or so on referendum night with a big swing for Leave. If we exit the single market seeyabaye Nissan! What is Sunderland going to flog to the rest of the World to make up for that? The economy wins elections first and foremost and the Tories know that all too well. You're looking at only one side of the picture. If Nissan lost the ability to export cars to the rest of the EU... then it's pretty certain that there would be a tit-for-tat trade war, and Germany would also lose the ability to export cars to the UK. Here's a factoid: 20% of the entire German car industry's output is sent to the UK. In other words: 20% of all German car workers would be unemployed overnight. And that's simply not going to be allowed to happen. Not in a million years. So - the German authorities will be very keen to keep the borders with the UK open. And Nissan will keep on exporting cars. Edited July 13, 2016 by DeepLurker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDevil Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 On balance with the speedy appt of the new PM and her appt of prominent brexiters, seeing the backs of the eton scumbags, things aren't looking too bad at the moment. Now when we stick the fingers to junker and invoke article 50, happy days.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XswampyX Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) On balance with the speedy appt of the new PM and her appt of prominent brexiters, seeing the backs of the eton scumbags, things aren't looking too bad at the moment. Now when we stick the fingers to junker and invoke article 50, happy days.. Yep it's a good start. What puzzles me is where are the remoaners getting their hope from? Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'entrate. Edited July 13, 2016 by XswampyX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbo Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) I'm with Konig but I expect we'll need a much broader window than 12-18 months, 6-36??? Edited July 13, 2016 by bobbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDevil Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Yep it's a good start. What puzzles me is where are the remoaners getting their hope from? Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate. The remoaners are convinced she won't allow brexit. I think we will hear lots of remoaning over the next few months as it becomes apparent that its bye bye EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pl1 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 On balance with the speedy appt of the new PM and her appt of prominent brexiters, seeing the backs of the eton scumbags, things aren't looking too bad at the moment. Now when we stick the fingers to junker and invoke article 50, happy days.. Agreed, I'm quietly surprised. My heart sank when I heard Remainer Amber Rudd was going to be Home Secretary although doing a bit of digging she has taken a hard line on illegal immigration. Dunno what her view on free movement is? Anyone? David Davis was my first choice for Minister for Brexit. This is good news. The best news. The most Eurosceptic minister & former contender for PM will be the spearpoint for negotiations. Liam Fox is also good news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 I was thinking more along the lines of Mr Farage kicking the door down saying " right Fritz, I`m not here to negotiate, this is how it`s going to be, so you`d better pay attention". But I could go along with your more reasonable scenario. I was thinking something like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbo Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 You're looking at only one side of the picture. If Nissan lost the ability to export cars to the rest of the EU... then it's pretty certain that there would be a tit-for-tat trade war, and Germany would also lose the ability to export cars to the UK. Here's a factoid: 20% of the entire German car industry's output is sent to the UK. In other words: 20% of all German car workers would be unemployed overnight. And that's simply not going to be allowed to happen. Not in a million years. So - the German authorities will be very keen to keep the borders with the UK open. And Nissan will keep on exporting cars. How much of that is German car parts for British assembled German cars, or all the German componentry in other makes of cars? Heard of Bocsh? The cars will still get made just maybe not in the UK. The market is more than likely going to stay open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDevil Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 On the contrary UK labour is 15% cheaper to foreign companies than last month. No wonder Siemens have back tracked on their threat to quit the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepLurker Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 How much of that is German car parts for British assembled German cars, or all the German componentry in other makes of cars? Heard of Bocsh? The cars will still get made just maybe not in the UK. The market is more than likely going to stay open. Could you please clarify your post - "how much of that..." - how much of what? Cars made in Germany? Cars made in the UK? Or something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssKay Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 The new girl did say BREXIT means BREXIT...... And she has been making the right noises about reducing immigration. BREXIT means BREXIT is just a sound bite. All it really means is that at some stage she'll invoke article 50 and we'll leave the EU. The devil (as always) is in the details of exactly what our relationship with the EU will be afterwards My money is on BREXIT lite - we'll formally leave the EU but keep single market access and services passporting. Freedom of movement will stay (possibly with some negotiated restrictions based on whether prospective migrants have a job to go to in the UK). We'll also still have to "contribute" to running the EU - same as Norway etc As for reducing immigration, she also made the right noises about doing that at the home office. It didn't pan out though did it? She couldn't even get non-EU immigration down to the "tens of thousands" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long time lurking Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) How much of that is German car parts for British assembled German cars, or all the German componentry in other makes of cars? Heard of Bocsh? The cars will still get made just maybe not in the UK. The market is more than likely going to stay open. Considering there`s only one German car made in the UK the Mini and most of that car is manufactured in the UK i would say very little The 20% is for German made cars not parts made by German manufactures Edited July 13, 2016 by long time lurking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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