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Frank Hovis

"hate Crime" Lunacy In Scotland

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A shocking quote IMO:

Mr Matheson said: "There is no place in Scotland for any crime motivated by prejudice, be it racial, religious, homophobic or any other form of intolerance.

All other crime has its place in Scotland then? Crime motivated by sex, money, or any other reason bar prejudice is fine and dandy is it? Or rather just normal and to be expected unlike that scourge that is " hate crime".

This pillock is actually Justice Secretary. This from the administration that wanted to see no women behind bars. Well they'd have Rosemary West's vote anyway.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-36498081

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It's astonishing that someone that senior can speak before thinking about what he's about to say.

It's also the whole concept of hate crime making the crime worse that I object to.

When working somewhere that dealt with homeless I saw a picture of an activity day and said "Catweazle!". It wasn't meant to be nasty and the lady I was next to appreciated that and didn't bawl me out.

Instead she explained that because of a combination of his distinctive looks, slight frame, and shyness he was always being picked on, bullied, having his money stolen.

Now those to me are "hate crimes", he is a victim for his looks, but as a white English male in his thirties without any disabilities he cannot be the victim of a hate crime.

It's a stupid concept altogether.

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I don't see the point in categorising a crime by motivation. I mean, who cares?

If, for example, I am a rascist and I hit a black man in the street it is just an assault. No different from me hitting a white man in the street for non-rascist reasons.

One crime should not recieve a greater punishment than the other. They are the same - an assault. Nothing more, nothing less.

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Yes.

I was thinking on the football side I have joined in (apologies in advance to anybody north of the Midlands) after a bad foul the "You dirty northern *******" chant.

Is that chanting a hate crime? I don't hate northerners and nor did anybody else chanting it AFAIK but the loonie in the OP would probably have me locked up for it.

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Any context...

https://twitter.com/harrietharman/status/462271405024108544

Guess we ought to arrange a mass book burning and arrest pretty much every black guy in the UK

So long as we have Harriet Harman, we cant much point to the Jocks and laugh.

I've read numerous cases like this (OK, he looks an uppity little shit, but anyway...)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3004807/Boy-16-killed-teenager-thought-Gangnam-Style-dancing-racist-jailed-eight-months.html

Most havent ended in death, but more and more violence seems to be acceptable for people who either dont like others points of view or else are too thick to argue back.

If you react with violence to someone who is (or perhaps isnt in that case) saying racist things to you, YOU are the problem. There is no excuse for violence other than as a defense against violence. This normalizing of savagery towards anyone who is believed to fit the (ever expanding) definition of a 'racist' is far more grotesque.

Frankly, we pay far too much attention to racism and 'hate' as it is. The kind of stuff they look for (ie white on non-white) is amazingly rare (hence why they still go on about stephen lawence 20+ years later, despite dozens of similar black lads being killed by other blacks) If they devoted the resources used in preventing 'racist' murders and assualts to the same crimes, with no racist motivations, how many lives could have been saved. I dont care what they say, a murder is a murder. Frankly I dont care if the guy killing me hates me for my race or any other reason. Im dead either way. Only difference is with the former i have the 'luxury' of knowing some self serving politician will be using my death to grab powers and further his career.

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Yes.

I was thinking on the football side I have joined in (apologies in advance to anybody north of the Midlands) after a bad foul the "You dirty northern *******" chant.

Is that chanting a hate crime? I don't hate northerners and nor did anybody else chanting it AFAIK but the loonie in the OP would probably have me locked up for it.

Yup. Only difference is one fits in with the identity politics narrative. We saw it in 2010 with Margaret hodge in Dagenham. After cleansing most whites from that area, she was going around saying if you dont vote labour, other politicians will helicopter drop you in the North Sea. Utter nonsense, but given most the new voters came from despotic hellholes, perhaps believable if thats what you are used to.

Its ironic of course most racial genocides are the result of government. Most individuals dont want to kill other individual (perhaps deport, or segregate) unless they in turn have a gun pointed at their head. Compared to govt massacres, even large (memberships in the hundreds of thousands or even millions) organized and well known groups like the KKK have comparatively tiny death tolls.

Aside from Muslims (who replace the govt with god and thus have a symbolic gun to their heads) I dont fear supremacist groups.

But I do genuinely fear the govt narrative of today will end with whites being the next to die en masse due to government racial policies.

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I don't see the point in categorising a crime by motivation. I mean, who cares?

If, for example, I am a rascist and I hit a black man in the street it is just an assault. No different from me hitting a white man in the street for non-rascist reasons.

One crime should not recieve a greater punishment than the other. They are the same - an assault. Nothing more, nothing less.

All crime requires a motivation.

Hate crime is simply an extra label du jour for a motive. Motive can be greed, lust, hate, revenge, politics, just about anything a person could get worked up about.

hate crime doesnt even have to involve hate...like saying get out of Europe means you Hate Europeans...total lefty BS.

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Hate Crime What is it?

A Hate Incident is any incident which the victim, or anyone else, thinks is based on someones prejudice towards them because of their race, religion, sexual orientation, disability or because they are transgender.

If you, or anyone you know, has been called names, been bullied or had anything happen to them that you think may be because of one of these factors, then you should report this as a hate incident.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/northeast/victims_and_witnesses/hate_crime/

The above is the official Crown Prosecution Service definition of 'hate crime'. It is about how the victim feels, nothing more.

It is clearly open to all manner of abuses.

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It's also the whole concept of hate crime making the crime worse that I object to.

It's a stupid concept altogether.

Indeed. The man from Bangladesh on our street had the same abuse as me, "go back to where you came from" but for me that's not a hate crime cos the youths were as white as me and I'm just from a different part of England.

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Hmmm ...

Go to any personal ads site, lots of women specify wanting to meet tall man. I'm deeply offended and my feelings grievously hurt to be systematically excluded for nothing more than a physical characteristic. It's No blacks, no Irish, all over again! Where's my compensation? Who do I sue?

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The hate crime thing is just the first step.

The next thing will be the compulsory "celebration" of certain ideas.

And those who aren't prepared to visibly "celebrate" them will be penalised.

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A shocking quote IMO:

Mr Matheson said: "There is no place in Scotland for any crime motivated by prejudice, be it racial, religious, homophobic or any other form of intolerance.

All other crime has its place in Scotland then? Crime motivated by sex, money, or any other reason bar prejudice is fine and dandy is it? Or rather just normal and to be expected unlike that scourge that is " hate crime".

This pillock is actually Justice Secretary. This from the administration that wanted to see no women behind bars. Well they'd have Rosemary West's vote anyway.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-36498081

Almost all of the football related "hate crimes" will have involved Catholic/Protestant sectarian aggro, which is a substantial and very nasty problem in some areas of Central Scotland (and is strongly linked to the Northern Irish situation). It's only a few weeks since you yourself made this comment regarding the violence after Hibernian won the Scottish Cup:

Maybe they'll be disqualified for their thug fans assaulting the Rangers players after the game.

The subtext here is that Rangers are strongly associated with Protestantism and Hibs are (less strongly these days) associated with Catholicism. Earlier today it was announced that twelve men are to stand trial in connection with this. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the charges will involve "hate crimes".

I think part of what's going on here is that the Scottish Government are trying to eradicate sectarianism (something that's been a blight on Scottish society for probably over 100 years now) by making it clear that it's completely unacceptable. Now maybe this "hate-crime" legislation is a bit of an over-the-top way to do it, but it's time something was done. I have no idea what the best way to go about it is though. I have to emphasise that if you haven't actually witnessed this stuff then it's difficult to appreciate the sheer nastiness of some of it: there's a lot of very genuine hate involved.

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One step from thought crime in my opinion.

The world is heading towards a terrible place, and I have absolutely no doubt that with 20-30 years life will be pretty miserable for all but the ruling elite. They will be the ones who do not have their DNA recorded on a global databse at birth and their ID chip implanted at the same time.

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What I don't get is how 41% of these crimes can be against the polis?

It's a load of shit, the vast, vast majority of people signing at the football couldn't care less about the meaning of the words, only people offended are SJW's

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The first thing they should be doing then is stopping segregation in schools, not arresting a few football supporters..

Almost all of the football related "hate crimes" will have involved Catholic/Protestant sectarian aggro, which is a substantial and very nasty problem in some areas of Central Scotland (and is strongly linked to the Northern Irish situation). It's only a few weeks since you yourself made this comment regarding the violence after Hibernian won the Scottish Cup:

The subtext here is that Rangers are strongly associated with Protestantism and Hibs are (less strongly these days) associated with Catholicism. Earlier today it was announced that twelve men are to stand trial in connection with this. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the charges will involve "hate crimes".

I think part of what's going on here is that the Scottish Government are trying to eradicate sectarianism (something that's been a blight on Scottish society for probably over 100 years now) by making it clear that it's completely unacceptable. Now maybe this "hate-crime" legislation is a bit of an over-the-top way to do it, but it's time something was done. I have no idea what the best way to go about it is though. I have to emphasise that if you haven't actually witnessed this stuff then it's difficult to appreciate the sheer nastiness of some of it: there's a lot of very genuine hate involved.

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The first thing they should be doing then is stopping segregation in schools, not arresting a few football supporters..

I'm with you 100% on that one. I don't think the Catholic church is though.

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What I don't get is how 41% of these crimes can be against the polis?

It's a load of shit, the vast, vast majority of people signing at the football couldn't care less about the meaning of the words, only people offended are SJW's

Call me an SJW then. A good few years ago I was on a train packed with drunken Rangers supporters all singing "NO SURRENDER TO THE IRA" at the tops of their voices. That was when killings in NI were still regular news. Jesus was I glad to get off that train.

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Call me an SJW then.

I'd rather sing it if I may...

#...Scunnered is an SJW, SJW, SJW...#

#...Scunnered is an SJW - all day long...#

;)

XYY

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Most vile fans in Europe

You shouldn't be that harsh on yourself. Galatasaray are probably worse than Celtic fans.

:)

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Call me an SJW then. A good few years ago I was on a train packed with drunken Rangers supporters all singing "NO SURRENDER TO THE IRA" at the tops of their voices. That was when killings in NI were still regular news. Jesus was I glad to get off that train.

I understand that it's a big problem in Scotland but this blunt instrument of the hate crime law seems a daft way to address it. Lots of fines, behind closed doors games at clubs and they soon get the message.

Being on a train with loads of drunken football fans, unless you happen to support the same team, is never fun.

That chant was however absolutely standard in English football grounds in the 80s and 90s; we all had mates in the Army who toured NI and risked being shot at by the IRA. It wasn't sung as part of a canon of anti-Catholic songs, as nobody AFAIK was anti-Catholic, rather anti-terrorist. So I don't see it as sectarian.

And yes I've sung it myself for that precise reason.

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You shouldn't be that harsh on yourself. Galatasaray are probably worse than Celtic fans.

:)

You get some surprising teams that have hooligan followings; some non-league teams who you think would be family friendly have firms. It tends to be the ones from bigger towns. I have no idea of the relevant strengths of them and don't particularly care but I remember Newport coming to Gloucester and trying to cause trouble in the city all day. Mostly unsuccessfully as people were generally baffled as to why they had got so wound up about a meaningless non-league (Conference South) fixture.

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You get some surprising teams that have hooligan followings; some non-league teams who you think would be family friendly have firms. It tends to be the ones from bigger towns. I have no idea of the relevant strengths of them and don't particularly care but I remember Newport coming to Gloucester and trying to cause trouble in the city all day. Mostly unsuccessfully as people were generally baffled as to why they had got so wound up about a meaningless non-league (Conference South) fixture.

Celtic fans are not 'hooligans' in the classic sense if the word. They just have a large element of total scumbags who wreck havoc wherever they go.

For some reason the police in Scotland let them get away with it.

However when they try it abroad - Amsterdam is a good example - they are put in their place.

The worst fans in Scotland are both sides of the old firm. With hibs and Aberdeen behind.

If you ever speak to a Scottish football fan I would reckon 90%+ would be in agreement.

Some Hearts fans are no angels of course. I know a few.

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