R K Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Janus Capital @JanusCapital Gross: Global yields lowest in 500 years of recorded history. $10 trillion of neg. rate bonds. This is a supernova that will explode one day Well....yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patfig Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Janus Capital @JanusCapital Gross: Global yields lowest in 500 years of recorded history. $10 trillion of neg. rate bonds. This is a supernova that will explode one day Well....yeah. Is it a champagne supernova? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renting til I die Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 What would be more useful to know is what might benefit from a total bond collapse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigged Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 In simple terms does this mean they're selling debt at such a low price, when the market turns and they sell debt at a much greater price people holding these bonds at the lower price will be wiped out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 In simple terms does this mean they're selling debt at such a low price, when the market turns and they sell debt at a much greater price people holding these bonds at the lower price will be wiped out? Yield = low = price = high = demand* = high. Thats my basic understanding of it and not a google in sight !! * Of course lots of this is not actual demand its made up funny money from central banks of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsby Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Well they can always hold the bonds to maturity. Surely only a default can wipe someone out by anything other than choice. But then if rolling debt becomes too expensive and repaying debt impossible, that's what's going to happen to some degree isn't it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Well they can always hold the bonds to maturity. Surely only a default can wipe someone out by anything other than choice. But then if rolling debt becomes too expensive and repaying debt impossible, that's what's going to happen to some degree isn't it. Government debt is the biggie ? Once the likes of Venezuela, Greece and other places decide to ram it and just default, and then look to be in a much better position a few years later - the whole thing could come crashing down. Who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Bunny Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) Too funny. Gross has been 100% wrong on US Ts for 3 years. As he's consistently said rates/yields will imminently soar, they've continued to trend down. He's the 2nd last person to listen to on govt bonds The last person is RK whose accuracy has been severely lacking on this and many other assets, on which he's forecasted. Edited June 9, 2016 by Killer Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katchytitle Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Too funny. Gross has been 100% wrong on US Ts for 3 years. As he's consistently said rates/yields will imminently soar, they've continued to trend down. He's the 2nd last person to listen to on govt bonds The last person is RK who's accuracy has been severely lacking on this and many other assets, on which he's forecasted. As long as every government has the same debt problem, no one is going to rock the boat. Govt create bonds, sell them in the market, create magic money to buy them back from banks(so they take a commission). Banks now have funny money to speculate and lend on assets, buy more bonds and sell them back to the ECB/Govt We are borrowing forward until something else turns up...as always. If the turnstile fails we have a huge problem in the monetary system. The government will re-write the rules to make sure they aren't bankrupt and some people who guessed what the govt will do will probably profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Is it a champagne supernova? they should make the most of it then, because all they will drive afterwards is a clapped out vauxhall nova. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormymonday_2011 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Surely the definition of a supernova is a massive star that has suffered runaway gravitational collapse followed by a massive explosion If nothing else Gross is mangling the metaphors here He should stick to 5 inch hooker heels on which he appears to be an expert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted June 10, 2016 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 Too funny. Gross has been 100% wrong on US Ts for 3 years. As he's consistently said rates/yields will imminently soar, they've continued to trend down. He's the 2nd last person to listen to on govt bonds The last person is RK whose accuracy has been severely lacking on this and many other assets, on which he's forecasted. hes over $1 billion wealthier than you. Id say that p1sses on your bond market "expertise". Which calls of mine have been wrong? Link them up Killer Troll. gold - nailed it Silver - nailed it. Oil - nailed it Equities - nailed it houses - nailed it. Bonds - There IS no exit. You are the greater fool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 hes over $1 billion wealthier than you. Id say that p1sses on your bond market "expertise". Which calls of mine have been wrong? Link them up Killer Troll. gold - nailed it Silver - nailed it. Oil - nailed it Equities - nailed it houses - nailed it. Bonds - There IS no exit. You are the greater fool. Mr FTSE 10000. Foolproof and incapable of error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Bunny Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Mr FTSE 10000. Foolproof and incapable of error. You said it. And there's a lot more that can be added - which I have done. Can't be bothered doing it yet again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renting til I die Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 hes over $1 billion wealthier than you. Id say that p1sses on your bond market "expertise". Which calls of mine have been wrong? Link them up Killer Troll. gold - nailed it Silver - nailed it. Oil - nailed it Equities - nailed it houses - nailed it. Bonds - There IS no exit. You are the greater fool. I'm going to open a special RK portfolio, to see how your guesses really do over the long term. I'm willing to put a couple a k in there. So, which share/ETF/etc should I buy first oh great one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 If the bond market collapses will that crash the wider financial system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Too funny. Gross has been 100% wrong on US Ts for 3 years. As he's consistently said rates/yields will imminently soar, they've continued to trend down. He's the 2nd last person to listen to on govt bonds The last person is RK whose accuracy has been severely lacking on this and many other assets, on which he's forecasted. To be fair to RK his winners are worth following. To be fair to Gross he had made a lot of people a lot of money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Bunny Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 I'm going to open a special RK portfolio, to see how your guesses really do over the long term. I'm willing to put a couple a k in there. So, which share/ETF/etc should I buy first oh great one? Put it in the portfolio he said before it happened. ...and it's gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Bunny Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 If the bond market collapses will that crash the wider financial system? Yes. Next question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Bunny Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 To be fair to RK his winners are worth following. To be fair to Gross he had made a lot of people a lot of money Name them. Timestamped. Not in last 3 years. Hence he was thrown out of PIMCO that he founded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scepticus Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 I reckon Bill Gross is ready to explode, and will do long before the bond market does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 I think the outcome for bonds/government borrowing will be less bonds collapsing but countries being able to borrow in their own currencies. There's few creditors out there. The tales of glut of money is wrong. Even Saudi is raising money via bonds. Thee's finite cash chasing almost infinite debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 I reckon Bill Gross is ready to explode, and will do long before the bond market does. Coke raddled BS merchant - Gross that is, not you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bland Unsight Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 Coke raddled BS merchant - Gross that is, not you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Name them. Timestamped. Not in last 3 years. Hence he was thrown out of PIMCO that he founded. Over thirty years people who stuck with him are still up handsomely. It's a result most people would take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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