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lagos36

Home Owners Getting Richer

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Just a thought ,are there people on this board like me who wished they had bought in the mid nineties and therefore would love to see a houseprice crash now.If there is no crash and prices simply level off for a number of years before going up again,then I for one will never be able to afford a house of my own and will always look upon home owners as the lucky ones who bought at the right time.Is this houseprice crash theory just wishfull thinking by like minded people or just a possibility,reading some of the posts on here you would think it is a foregone conclusion.

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I think perhaps you should rethink your association of home ownership with wealth. It's a belief that is seated in the assumption of continuously increasing prices, or profit. In the absence of house price growth ownership only represents wealth in the sense of the amount of equity you have. If you were to buy today, that doesn't make you any more wealthy than if you did not.

T&T

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not really.

i have myself made secondary plans for end of next year to move out of here and be a tax exile, while still making money from the uk. i plan to move abroad for a few years and come back once it settles. im going to take my contract work with me. i came back here in 99 and since then the country has gone insane. you cant even find a half decent reantal. rents are tying to follow hpi. its become more than a joke.

i dont think anyones prepared to sit this out for 20+ years. they would find alternatives. not ideal, but better than being taken for a housing slave for nothing but the debts of others. even moving to spain and working part time, while renting a beach flat is better than waiting here in bingedrink land in some grey bedsit one bedder than sucks the substance from you salary.

and the weather is just grey and MISERABLE.

i cant think of much reason to stay - can you ?

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Home Owners Getting Richer, Will renters be left behind forever

Did that happen in 1989 or 1971

Can a bubble keep inflating 4ever

The crash has started and it’s only Enron style accounting that is trying to keep it going just a little bit longer so that the smart money can all move out.

It’s simple. The figures for BTL or property simply don’t add up so houses are over priced and we all know what happens next.

I’m off to feed the lemmings now !

Has TTRTR jumped already :lol:

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Whilst I would say it isn't possible that you'll 'never' be able to buy a house, the fact is that there are plenty of people around the world who will never buy a house, but out of a slowly accumulated choice not to place themselves in the path of any commitment or risk.

But they also risk the fate of paying market rent for the rest of their lives as well.

There are houses 30km from me here in Sweden for £30,000. I bet you could afford one, but would you choose to?

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But they also risk the fate of paying market rent for the rest of their lives as well.

Oh what a terrible fate, having to pay market rents - which have been way below the cost of ownership for many months, and will continue to be so for a long time yet. :D

VP

Buy to let and lose a fortune.....your property could be at risk if you believe all the VI spin

Edited by VacantPossession

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Whilst I would say it isn't possible that you'll 'never' be able to buy a house, the fact is that there are plenty of people around the world who will never buy a house, but out of a slowly accumulated choice not to place themselves in the path of any commitment or risk.

But they also risk the fate of paying market rent for the rest of their lives as well.

There are houses 30km from me here in Sweden for £30,000. I bet you could afford one, but would you choose to?

cant argue on the facts, so prods his opponents insecurities. there's good help available to deal with passive aggressive disorders you know...

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I for one will never be able to afford a house of my own .

Dont be so sure.

Look, I know a girl who has repaid her £96000 mortgage in full and shes only 29. She worked for a printer (recently gone bust) and was earning £14000 pa when she left. She paid her mortgage off in less than 10 years.

She did it by being mega frugal and also by letting the second bedroom.

Many people fritter a few quid each day on mags, sweets, food and parking etc, yet others save this money and eventually buy thier own place.

Not intending to critiscise you, just trying to offer some hope

:)

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Many people fritter a few quid each day on mags, sweets, food and parking etc, yet others save this money and eventually buy thier own place.

If you think that everyone aged 20 - 40 should spend all their money on interest and debt repayments, then this country is fcuked.

That's one of the main points of HPC. Doing this is unnecessary, bad for the economy, bad for families, bad for labour mobility, bad for transport. And also it's no fun at all. And what's life for after all?

We want people to be free of their feudal landlords who have cornered the market, free to build a house of their own where they want (within reason), free to have nice thick walls for sound insulation, free from debt, free from banks, etc etc rant rant grumble grumble

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The house price market is just a market. sometimes it goes up relative to incomes and sometimes it goes down - sometimes property is expensive and sometimes it is unaffordable by you. Thats the way it is. If prices are too high for you now don't despair they will correct. If they don't correct then the last thing you would want to do is buy your first property as you will never be able to afford to move. In the meantime just rent

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The house price market is just a market. sometimes it goes up relative to incomes and sometimes it goes down - sometimes property is expensive and sometimes it is unaffordable by you. Thats the way it is. If prices are too high for you now don't despair they will correct. If they don't correct then the last thing you would want to do is buy your first property as you will never be able to afford to move. In the meantime just rent

well said. here here!

or should that be 'hear hear' ?

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Oh what a terrible fate, having to pay market rents - which have been way below the cost of ownership for many months, and will continue to be so for a long time yet. :D

VP

Buy to let and lose a fortune.....your property could be at risk if you believe all the VI spin

I wonder if you'll be smiling when you're 65 years old?

If you think that everyone aged 20 - 40 should spend all their money on interest and debt repayments, then this country is fcuked.

That's one of the main points of HPC. Doing this is unnecessary, bad for the economy, bad for families, bad for labour mobility, bad for transport. And also it's no fun at all. And what's life for after all?

We want people to be free of their feudal landlords who have cornered the market, free to build a house of their own where they want (within reason), free to have nice thick walls for sound insulation, free from debt, free from banks, etc etc rant rant grumble grumble

I think he meant that by not contibuting to the profits of sellers of trinkets, rumours and sugar, that she will be paying a LOT LESS on interest and debt repayments.

See it the other way round at your peril.

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Almost everyone who is not in their final ideal family home since 2000 is waiting for the market to crash even if you did buy at the right time as i did. As ive posted before, I bought my first "2nd" rung house a large two bed semi, gardens, garage drive nice estate in aylesbury for £55k in Dec 96. 9 years on its worth £165k and I have over £100k equity left.

But the next rung up the ladder to a three bed semi / detached in a location, location, location area of aylesbury is £250k+. Which means i have to trebble my mortgage to move up. Now me and the fiance have a baby and a wedding due in the next 18 months with only my wage for possibly a year or more from june 06 I need the HPC to afford a 1/2 decent 3 bed house without having to live amongst the "chavs" who will look to steal all my hard earn luxuries!!!

One of my best friends is selling the exact house we want in a village 5 miles out of Aylesbury for £310k, and he bought it for £180k in 2001. Back then mine was worth £100k so its everyones problem in the last 4-5 years.

M

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well said. here here!

or should that be 'hear hear' ?

'Word of the Day: hear, hear':

http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19980304

Is the parliamentary shout "Hear, hear," "Here, here," both, or neither?

The shout is hear, hear.

The original form of this expression was hear him, which was usually repeated. This imperative was used to call attention to a speaker's words, and naturally developed the sense of a broad expression of favor. This is how it is still used today, although one can always vary one's tone to express different sentiments; the Oxford English Dictionary noted around the turn of the century that hear, hear "is now the regular form of cheering in the House of Commons, and expresses, according to intonation, admiration, acquiescence, indignation, derision, etc."

As a parliamentary cheer, hear him, hear him! is first recorded in the late seventeenth century and continued into the nineteenth; the reduction to hear! or hear, hear! occurred by the late eighteenth century. However, the use of the verb hear as an imperative meaning 'listen!' is older: a notable example is the parliamentary-sounding "Then cried a wise woman out of the city, Hear, hear" (King James Bible, 2 Samuel xx 16).

Aside from the interjection, a number of other forms are found, such as a hear, hear (originally, of course, a hear him) 'a cheer'; hear-hear 'to shout "hear, hear!"'; and hear-hearer 'a person who shouts "hear, hear!"'.

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The house price market is just a market. sometimes it goes up relative to incomes and sometimes it goes down - sometimes property is expensive and sometimes it is unaffordable by you. Thats the way it is. If prices are too high for you now don't despair they will correct. If they don't correct then the last thing you would want to do is buy your first property as you will never be able to afford to move. In the meantime just rent

I think what many are afraid of right now is that the housing market has entered a new paradigm and that prices will NEVER go down sufficiently enough for them to buy and so are borrowing to the hilt to get on the 'ladder'. The past 6/7 years have been quite phenomenal and it will take time to reverse the trend. But reverse it will!

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I think he meant that by not contibuting to the profits of sellers of trinkets, rumours and sugar, that she will be paying a LOT LESS on interest and debt repayments.

Paying off debt is patently and good thing to do, no disagreement there. My point is, from a market point of view, if it takes all FTBs to use ~50% of their income to prop up the market, they I think this is unrealistic. Historically people only go up to ~30%. And I don't see any reason for this to change. The market has to come down to ~30%

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I think what many are afraid of right now is that the housing market has entered a new paradigm and that prices will NEVER go down sufficiently enough for them to buy and so are borrowing to the hilt to get on the 'ladder'. The past 6/7 years have been quite phenomenal and it will take time to reverse the trend. But reverse it will!

Whilst a new paradigm is possible we certainly can't declare that yet. It is very rare that any market enters a new paridigm as prices are fundamentally determined by supply and demand and access to capital (plus normal greed and fear). In my view prices are high relative to earnings and appear to have entered an unstable state. does that mean that a hpc is imminent? i don't think so but the market is very vulnerable to external forces (large terrorist attack, systemic banking/corporate failure, major derivative unwinding, misjudgement by boe etc etc). Eventually the ratio will adjust and whilst it is unfavourable it makes economic sense to rent

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Dont be so sure.

Look, I know a girl who has repaid her £96000 mortgage in full and shes only 29. She worked for a printer (recently gone bust) and was earning £14000 pa when she left. She paid her mortgage off in less than 10 years.

I don't believe you.

To pay off a £96,000 mortgage in ten years implies repaying more than £10,000 per annum. If she's only earning £14,000 per annum then that is more than her after tax income so, unless she used to earn a hell of a lot more, she must have got somebody else to pay it off for her.

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Someone posted an off topic thread about the US government involvement in 9/11.

I mentioned to my wife that I thought there was enough evidence to support the indictment and how terrible that the US government murdered 3000 of their own citizens.

She replied by saying that it had been going on around the world of hundreds of years, why should us 'privileged westerners' be exempt?

Now, the same applies to housing. Why do we think it so bad that we cannot afford housing in this country while others can, and, have made 'money' from our exclusion. The situation is in noway new or unique. It's difficult to get your head round, right?

The amount of 'money' or debt in the system is unknown, I doubt whether the BoE or anyone else can answer that question. But, while the banks are allowed to issue new debt and charge a low premium for the privilege there will be enough people to accept their offer and allow this increased flow of 'cash' to the economy to continue.

Prices have increased, rents have increased but the only thing keeping it all going is this flow of 'money' or rather debt from the banks, nothing else.

People need homes and no matter what anyone says, once you hit 30 renting rapidly loses its appeal.

Houses will continue to sell, their price may fall slightly but we will see no crash until this flow of 'money' slows to the point where it prevents trade in the market from taking place at a level that supports high prices.

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Guest Bart of Darkness

Home Owners Getting Richer, Will renters be left behind forever

Of course. We shall return to the feudal Britain of yore.

Those who own houses will enjoy the right to kick poor people into the gutter and sleep with their daughters.

People who own BTL property will also "own" their tenants and be able to use them as impromptu furniture if they have unexpected guests for dinner.

People who rent will be denied the vote as they are lesser beings, virtually sub-human really. When they die they will not be entitled to a burial plot (they are not fit to own land even in death) but instead will be mulched into compost and spread over the gardens of the proiperty owning classes.

There will be segregated areas for them in cinemas and restaurant (although generally they will be too poor to partake of such luxuries) so that the sight and smell of them does not offend the genteel property owners. When oil runs out they will be put to good use as rickshaw drivers and they will become a familiar and welcome sight on our busy streets.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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