Dimbleby Seems To Think Lower House Prices Is A Good Thing !

[sandyb]

sandy B, most people in control of everything were predominantly... White Men; now they happen to control less.

But it certainly isn't a matriarchy!

Re: Boomers.

Seriously, you are honestly saying that I and my generation's general critique of baby boomers is inherently flawed? Why?

These people who have gained the most from HPI, BTL, De-Industrialisation, Immigration, and set policy from the BoE to Thatcherite Monetarist policies, to Home-owner policy and Right-To-Buy to the New Labour crews fascination with HPI.

All Baby boomers involved in key areas making key decisions more/or less.

But don't for a second think that I don't know that many of that generation are in dire straits; They are.

It's just that many still are not in dire straits and have caused many of the issues we see today.

Yet, say I agree with you: It's not the Boomers fault.

Can you not also agree that most Boomers had it alot better than my Gen, with better job prospects, better rights, better chances of renting decent housing or buying affordable homes, free Uni Education and far less debt overall? Surely you can see that your Gen had it so much better and that our gen are regularly derided by Boomers as being dullard, shiftless, ipad-swiping fornicators who can't get housing, can't get stable jobs with pensions, can't build families and can't live successful lives because we are too profligate, lazy and ultimately useless.

TL:DR - Let's say it isn't the Boomers fault for anything: Surely we can agree that between generations, the Boomers had it so much better than this gen when it comes to key important things in life.

Absolutely. This was the point of my original post. Of course this generation has had a raw deal. Why do you assume we are completely blind to this? As a parent and step parent this is a massive concern for me and I'm no exception. I worry for my kids, their cousins and friends etc. When you know what it takes to raise your child from a newborn into adulthood, you will get it.

[sandyb]

OK, you're right. Boomers had it as tough as the FTBs in 2016, and are very very unhappy and reluctant to profit from massive HPI via equity release or downsizing or whatever. My F'in bad.

I'll overlook your rudeness and respectfully point out that many people bought a home as a basic life essential, just as this next generation needs and wants to. BTL was not a "thing" back then: a property was shelter, a roof over one's head. The masses did not create the conditions for the property market to be a speculator's playground.

I can see you are struggling with this but a property is a home not just an investment. Let me take it slow for you. Equity release is debt. If people who are heading towards retirement age borrow money off their house and can't pay it back, they risk losing their home at a time in their lives when there is little or no opportunity for recovery. Remember, people do not remain economically active indefinitely. You make "downsizing" sound so easy but people's homes are not just interchangeable like swapping Apple for BP share certificates. It gets harder and harder to start again the older you get. Besides, how can people downsize when their grown up kids can't afford to move out? Believe it or not, getting on the property ladder is not a panacea for all of life's challenges.

[Tapori]

Absolutely. This was the point of my original post. Of course this generation has had a raw deal. Why do you assume we are completely blind to this? As a parent and step parent this is a massive concern for me and I'm no exception. I worry for my kids, their cousins and friends etc. When you know what it takes to raise your child from a newborn into adulthood, you will get it.

Good and fair enough.

[Rigged]

I'll overlook your rudeness and respectfully point out that many people bought a home as a basic life essential, just as this next generation needs and wants to. BTL was not a "thing" back then: a property was shelter, a roof over one's head. The masses did not create the conditions for the property market to be a speculator's playground.

I can see you are struggling with this but a property is a home not just an investment. Let me take it slow for you. Equity release is debt. If people who are heading towards retirement age borrow money off their house and can't pay it back, they risk losing their home at a time in their lives when there is little or no opportunity for recovery. Remember, people do not remain economically active indefinitely. You make "downsizing" sound so easy but people's homes are not just interchangeable like swapping Apple for BP share certificates. It gets harder and harder to start again the older you get. Besides, how can people downsize when their grown up kids can't afford to move out? Believe it or not, getting on the property ladder is not a panacea for all of life's challenges.

Says person who was afforded the luxury of being born at a time when this was barely a challenge.

Whilst you may feel sorry for your kids and their friends that they are priced out you truly have no idea what its like to have been born at the wrong time and priced out by the state, banks and BoE rigging the market since 2003.

Honestly you have no idea what myself and my friends who work in OK jobs have kids and have been evicted and ended up in half way houses.

And selling a house and downsizing isn't difficult at all, just because you can't call your broker doesn't mean freeing up vast sums of unearned equity is a challenge.

[Bland Unsight]

I can see you are struggling with this but a property is a home not just an investment.

You are most welcome here

However, attending to what you've written above, it is not true.

There is £1,300 billion of mortgage debt in the market right now. Of that somewhere north of £200bn is straight no chaser BTL. A credible source suggests that north of £100bn more of supposedly owner-occupier debt also backs rentals.

At present for many mug punters the only credible long term investment is BTL.

You know it is not an investment. I know it is not an investment. There is just the small matter of about 3 million people backing £300bn mortgage debt acting on the basis that it is is an investment.

FWIW in 1996 there was only about £400bn of mortgage debt in the economy. Now there is maybe £300bn of mortgage debt bet on believing that houses are an investment.

[Bland Unsight]

Believe it or not, getting on the property ladder is not a panacea for all of life's challenges.

Residential property has ended up as a wealth transfer mechanism, extracting wealth from younger cohorts and passing it to older cohorts. The largesse the present older cohorts presently enjoy is eye-catching to younger cohorts, given what the cold facts suggest lies in store for them.

In light of this, discussion of property is potentially inflammatory and must be approached with care.

The "property ladder" may not be a panacea, but being f**ked by it results in chafing. When the people wielding the ladder offer tired homilies they can expect the people on the receiving end to be chippy.

That said, circumstantial evidence suggests that some of the HPC mods are boomers. One ought not to judge an individual on the basis of stereotypes of the class of individuals from which one proposes that they are drawn. However, there is some structure here and there is a de facto intergenerational conflict, and younger cohorts are being crucified, relatively speaking, natch.

[canbuywontbuy]

I'll overlook your rudeness and respectfully point out that many people bought a home as a basic life essential, just as this next generation needs and wants to. BTL was not a "thing" back then: a property was shelter, a roof over one's head. The masses did not create the conditions for the property market to be a speculator's playground.

I can see you are struggling with this but a property is a home not just an investment. Let me take it slow for you. Equity release is debt. If people who are heading towards retirement age borrow money off their house and can't pay it back, they risk losing their home at a time in their lives when there is little or no opportunity for recovery. Remember, people do not remain economically active indefinitely. You make "downsizing" sound so easy but people's homes are not just interchangeable like swapping Apple for BP share certificates. It gets harder and harder to start again the older you get. Besides, how can people downsize when their grown up kids can't afford to move out? Believe it or not, getting on the property ladder is not a panacea for all of life's challenges.

If boomers didn't both benefit and cause the current status quo, who did? What's YOUR point? Boomers had a hard life too? I'd prefer to have your problems of finding it tough to downsize than having moved house 3 times in the last 5 years with two small kids (renting, you see), with current school run a nightmare. Who knows though, maybe we can move a 4th time in 6 years or so and get closer to their school, or they could always move school everytime we move.

[Rigged]

If boomers didn't both benefit and cause the current status quo, who did? What's YOUR point? Boomers had a hard life too? I'd prefer to have your problems of finding it tough to downsize than having moved house 3 times in the last 5 years with two small kids (renting, you see), with current school run a nightmare. Who knows though, maybe we can move a 4th time in 6 years or so and get closer to their school, or they could always move school everytime we move.

This is the reality and many like me end up separating and lose lots of work due to the stress of it all.

In hindsight i would have been better off buying at 2007 bubble prices than buying at 50% off today's insane bubble prices due to the amount of work lost and money spent on solicitors.

[sandyb]

There is clearly a problem that has far reaching effects. My point is that not everybody over 45+ thinks uncontrolled house price inflation is a wonderful thing MERELY because they already own a home or partially own a home. The stork did not drop the younger generation from the sky. I'm amazed how difficult this is to understand.

[sandyb]

You are most welcome here

However, attending to what you've written above, it is not true.

There is £1,300 billion of mortgage debt in the market right now. Of that somewhere north of £200bn is straight no chaser BTL. A credible source suggests that north of £100bn more of supposedly owner-occupier debt also backs rentals.

At present for many mug punters the only credible long term investment is BTL.

You know it is not an investment. I know it is not an investment. There is just the small matter of about 3 million people backing £300bn mortgage debt acting on the basis that it is is an investment.

FWIW in 1996 there was only about £400bn of mortgage debt in the economy. Now there is maybe £300bn of mortgage debt bet on believing that houses are an investment.

It's not true for the investors until the correction burns their fingers and the purpose of property is for living in again.

[Si1]

You guys do realise that vast majority of "baby boomers" don't have BTL portfolios, don't set policies or interest rates etc, don't you?

May not all have BTL portfolios. But they do set interest rates, and have been doing so for twenty years.

[Rigged]

There is clearly a problem that has far reaching effects. My point is that not everybody over 45+ thinks uncontrolled house price inflation is a wonderful thing MERELY because they already own a home or partially own a home. The stork did not drop the younger generation from the sky. I'm amazed how difficult this is to understand.

But its a recent phenomenon for the masses to wake up to HPI not entirely being wonderful,and 10 years ago most who were 45 and over thought HPI was absolutely wonderful, there was pretty much no comprehension of the negative effects of HPI by homeowners.

[iamnumerate]

And Frank Field suggests that affordable house prices are irrelevant as an issue. I guess he doesn't spend 60% of his wages on rent. Sort that and I will then consider other issues.

Thats a shame - he was one of the few MPs I like.

[iamnumerate]

There is clearly a problem that has far reaching effects. My point is that not everybody over 45+ thinks uncontrolled house price inflation is a wonderful thing MERELY because they already own a home or partially own a home. The stork did not drop the younger generation from the sky. I'm amazed how difficult this is to understand.

Sadly lots of people think it is great - some of whom are in their 30s.

[iamnumerate]

+1

I'm in a very similar position.

I'd rather live in a country where people felt that they owned a stake in the their community, had the ability to bring up a family without requiring two wages, and didn't need to take on grinding levels of debt than have £50k of imaginary "profit" on my home that I will never be able to turn into cash. I know a number of people my age (mid 40's) and older who feel the same..

I agree and I have £100k profit on my home. My daughter will be living with us for life though, if things do not improve.

[canbuywontbuy]

There is clearly a problem that has far reaching effects. My point is that not everybody over 45+ thinks uncontrolled house price inflation is a wonderful thing MERELY because they already own a home or partially own a home. The stork did not drop the younger generation from the sky. I'm amazed how difficult this is to understand.

Answer this: how come HPI-as-a-vote-winner has been used by successive governments over the lasty 20 years? It clearly works. Governments aren't that daft to promise something that even boomers don't want. However, I take your point that house prices have gotten so out of hand, now they're a problem for almost everybody (they have now reached this realisation that their kids who are now 30 somethings are now suffering). However, it's true to say that boomers have wanted (past tense) HPI for many many years. They egged it on. They could have done something about it, but chose not to. They could have spoken out against it. Said it would be vote loser. That negative equity should be a very light millstone, not a massive one that means we all must hope for HPI just to avoid negative equity. Nothing said, nothing done. Anyone with half an ounce of foresight could see the problems ahead. But maybe the feel-good factor was too strong, I don't know. Just passively accepted the gains at best, encouraged them at worst. 1.75Million landlords in the UK - how many are boomers? Sorry to bang on about this, but the lesson we need to learn here is not to shaft up-and-coming generations by being passive and taking what we can "because it's there". I'm not letting myself off the hook here. I'm 40 something, have two young kids, I'm old enough to have "got in early" in the mid-90s and bought then if I had the where-with-all (I didn't). Thing is - if I were the beneficiary of HPI, and could see where things were headed (in the wrong direction for my kids), I would be just as much to blame if I were passive and didn't speak out / act out against it. I wouldn't care about small negative equity losses if I was a victim of HPC, but I WOULD care about massive negative equity losses (where we are today). In other words, we're too far gone now. Things should have been put right in the 80s, 90s at latest. No. Boomers just sat back and passively did their thing. All too late now. Bring on some kind of anarchy-inducing crash (when it didn't have to be this way).