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Bemused

The Fundamental Problems With This Website

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1. Timing

It came about 2 years too early, attracted some astute minds - and provided some excellent advise from very long term thinkers. However attention spans and patience are scarce resources.

2. The people’s revolutionary party of non-action.

The forum then attracted the radical fringe of muppets like the monkey et al. These would only look at one side of any argument, hound any one that held contrary viewpoints (however sensible) whilst flagging up conspiracy theories so lame that most intelligent posters went elsewhere.

This combination of factors leaves behind a forum that is largely dominated by a dogmatic stance leading to short-term selection of stats and facts that fit the mold, a lot of wishful thinking and too much bickering about an event that is very slow to unfold.

The long periods of stagnation and the inevitable rallies (however small) combined with certain "lunatic fringe" posters just makes the Bulls believe that any HPC is a non-entity.

It may turn out to be just that..... However there are certainties:

1. Property is VERY unlikely to rise above inflation and makes a very poor investment. Unless you plan on living in the same house for at least 5 years the costs of buying and selling will leave you well out of pocket.

2. In much of the country rent is far cheaper and much more flexible.

One of the miseries of modern life is the daily commute - flog the car and rent somewhere central. You are likely to be better off financially and personally!

4. The global economic situation is very worrying. Chill out. If people believe that amassing huge debts and being at the mercy of every interest rate fluctuation is the path they want to follow its their decision.

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Have to agree with you, Bemused.

There seem to be some very outspoken people on both sides whose rhetoric, IMHO, somewhat dilutes the message of this site.

The reality of the situation is that house prices are currently going nowhere, but it won't take much to see them start to slide.

It's no more than common sense that most of those who have saddled themselves with enormous amounts of personal debts and mortgages up to the limit of what they can afford are going to experience problems sooner rather than later. Free money just doesn't exist (for the majority at least).

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Guest Bart of Darkness

1. Timing

It came about 2 years too early, attracted some astute minds - and provided some excellent advise from very long term thinkers. However attention spans and patience are scarce resources.

Two years ago it was ahead of general sentiment, if it started up today it would be mirroring it. Spotting a trend years in advance is more impressive than any last minute jumping on the bandwagon.

The forum then attracted the radical fringe of muppets like the monkey et al. These would only look at one side of any argument, hound any one that held contrary viewpoints (however sensible) whilst flagging up conspiracy theories so lame that most intelligent posters went elsewhere.

Most site have oddball or extreme posters. And can you prove that "most intelligent posters went elsewhere"?

4. The global economic situation is very worrying. Chill out. If people believe that amassing huge debts and being at the mercy of every interest rate fluctuation is the path they want to follow its their decision.

Except that their decisions and actions can't help but impinge onto my life at some point. Less than one per cent of the American people actually possessed stocks and shares during the period of the Wall Street crash, but that was enough to bring the US (and world) ecomomy to its knees.

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Two years ago it was ahead of general sentiment, if it started up today it would be mirroring it. Spotting a trend years in advance is more impressive than any last minute jumping on the bandwagon.

Except that the site has now lost a lot of relevance in the minds of most people. If you cry wolf too often ....

Constantly banging on about and impending crash lis a bit like ike those odballs with the end of the world is nigh billboards. No crash was iminent and there were still huge gains to be made in property if you looked outside the capital yet we come to:

Most site have oddball or extreme posters. And can you prove that "most intelligent posters went elsewhere"?

The extreme posters haranged many people that pointed out that there was still a lot of life left in the property market causing them to leave the forum in despair (i was one of them - not saying I am intelligent)

Except that their decisions and actions can't help but impinge onto my life at some point. Less than one per cent of the American people actually possessed stocks and shares during the period of the Wall Street crash, but that was enough to bring the US (and world) ecomomy to its knees.

Not sure what to respond to this one? There is not much any of us can do about the global economic situation. Personally I try to think micro rather than macro. I don't always suceed but get too wound up otherwise and it doesnt make for healthy living ...

The reality of the situation is that house prices are currently going nowhere, but it won't take much to see them start to slide.

Agreed. It is also a far more healthy way of looking at the current situation and the basis of my response when people ask why I rent. Prices are at best static, debt at low inflation is at best managable. Why risk the worry of getting into huge debt for a property that is unlikely to make you any money in the short term and potentially very likely to cause major financial heartache in the long term?

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The radical fringe definately put me off for a while and also made me worry that others wouldn't take us seriously.

Out of shear frustration I posted a thread a few months ago stating that I have a vested interest in the housing market crashing, which was met with some harsh comments. Also, on the same post, I raised issue with BTLers and second home owners being called 'evil', which got a simular, if not worse responce.

However, in the last few months the more sane posters have become prominent, also I've noticed more Bulls on the forum and generally the conversations have become far more balanced. The AWOOGAing and TROLL calling is getting less frequent as well, but I think a lot of it is still unnessesary.

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This combination of factors leaves behind a forum that is largely dominated by a dogmatic stance leading to short-term selection of stats and facts that fit the mold, a lot of wishful thinking and too much bickering about an event that is very slow to unfold.

Well that's strange because after slapping wrists like this and claiming this site is dominated by nutty views, you then go on to say more or less exactly what the vast majority of posters HAVE been saying for the last couple of years:

1. Property is VERY unlikely to rise above inflation and makes a very poor investment. Unless you plan on living in the same house for at least 5 years the costs of buying and selling will leave you well out of pocket.

2. In much of the country rent is far cheaper and much more flexible.

One of the miseries of modern life is the daily commute - flog the car and rent somewhere central. You are likely to be better off financially and personally!

4. The global economic situation is very worrying. Chill out. If people believe that amassing huge debts and being at the mercy of every interest rate fluctuation is the path they want to follow its their decision.

...So you are expressing the same views as the very people you are slagging off. Forgive me but you give the impression that if YOU summarise HPI and the global economy it's ok, but when others do it they are somehow domineering idiots.

If you look back at the thousands of posts here, you will see that the majority of them are putting across roughly the same thing, but perhaps less self-consciously measured than your expression of it.

The "Fundamental problem" with posts like yours, to quote your own thread title, is that you feel yourself above the throng but your post is in fact just a rather limp and unoriginal expression of nothing particularly wise, new or illuminating and gives you no basis to see yourself as loftier than anyone else.

Talk about throwing stones in glass houses!

VP

Edited by VacantPossession

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Well that's strange because after slapping wrists like this and claiming this site is dominated by nutty views, you then go on to say more or less exactly what the vast majority of posters HAVE been saying for the last couple of years:

...So you are expressing the same views as the very people you are slagging off. Forgive me but you give the impression that if YOU summarise HPI and the global economy it's ok, but when others do it they are somehow domineering idiots.

If you look back at the thousands of posts here, you will see that the majority of them are putting across roughly the same thing, but perhaps less self-consciously measured than your expression of it. Talk about throwing stones in glass houses!

VP

Actually it is a critique of several very dominant posters on this forum that take a very radical view point, are downright rude and actively stifle debate by either shouting AWOOOGA at posts that are clearly not or just being derogatory. If people were sitting in the same room, they would not be so rude so why it should be justified and tolerated on a forum I have no idea.

Plus out of the handful of interested parties that I have directed to this forum they ahve all been put off by what they see as a selection of closed minded individuals that have one track minds and will bend any evidence to fit their own viewpoint ...

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Actually it is a critique of several very dominant posters on this forum that take a very radical view point, are downright rude and actively stifle debate by either shouting AWOOOGA at posts that are clearly not or just being derogatory. If people were sitting in the same room, they would not be so rude so why it should be justified and tolerated on a forum I have no idea.

Plus out of the handful of interested parties that I have directed to this forum they ahve all been put off by what they see as a selection of closed minded individuals that have one track minds and will bend any evidence to fit their own viewpoint ...

If you are talking about the liberal use of TROLL accusations I heartily agree, but you didn't say that! If you meant that then why not say it in the first place.

VP

Edited by VacantPossession

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Guest Charlie The Tramp

Plus out of the handful of interested parties that I have directed to this forum they have all been put off by what they see as a selection of closed minded individuals that have one track minds and will bend any evidence to fit their own viewpoint ...

So they are unable to sort in their opinion the wheat from the chaff. It funny that the so called slagging off threads attract most views and replies.

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How about you all just take this Christmas off and then make a new years resolution not to post on this site more than once a month.

All this jumping around after every housing statistic is released can not be good for your mental well-being.

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How about you all just take this Christmas off and then make a new years resolution not to post on this site more than once a month.

All this jumping around after every housing statistic is released can not be good for your mental well-being.

Could be a good idea but lets not jump to conclusions, hows about you road testing the theory for us and say report your findings back to us in late Dec 2006 :D

Edited by Catch22

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If you are talking about the liberal use of TROLL accusations I heartily agree, but you didn't say that! If you meant that then why not say it in the first place.

VP

Troll acusations and dogma. Believe it or not there have been some relevant bullish arguments over the past 2 years that were not given a chance with the "radical fringe" Even TTRTR has made some good points and has been the most accurate in forcasting interest rates, yet just gets abuse.

So they are unable to sort in their opinion the wheat from the chaff. It funny that the so called slagging off threads attract most views and replies.

We haven't all got the luxury of early retirement Charlie. Most take a quick look at work in quite moments and if all they read is a load of radical ranting and blatent abuse they just go elsewhere .... which is a shame as there is some very relevant stuff on here that could potentially stop people jumping into an ill informed purchase .

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Guest Charlie The Tramp

We haven't all got the luxury of early retirement Charlie. Most take a quick look at work in quite moments and if all they read is a load of radical ranting and blatent abuse they just go elsewhere .... which is a shame as there is some very relevant stuff on here that could potentially stop people jumping into an ill informed purchase .

Well there`s always the evening when the site is relatively quite, and even better at weekends when I myself catch up on all the interesting threads. It`s the titles which catch my eye. If you want to learn anything you have to make time, not just in quite moments when at work.

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Troll acusations and dogma. Believe it or not there have been some relevant bullish arguments over the past 2 years that were not given a chance with the "radical fringe" Even TTRTR has made some good points and has been the most accurate in forcasting interest rates, yet just gets abuse.

We haven't all got the luxury of early retirement Charlie. Most take a quick look at work in quite moments and if all they read is a load of radical ranting and blatent abuse they just go elsewhere .... which is a shame as there is some very relevant stuff on here that could potentially stop people jumping into an ill informed purchase .

I think people are quite capable of threading their own way through the wheat and chaff by themselves without excessive nannying. The only thing I object to here is the occasional post which is just personally insulting but lacking in any real debate. To be fair to TTRTR he usually avoids personal insults. That's fine by me, and I think you are exaggerating the dogma. One man's dogma is another's sensible discussion.

VP

Edited by VacantPossession

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The forum then attracted the radical fringe of muppets like the monkey et al.

The extreme posters haranged many people that pointed out that there was still a lot of life left in the property market causing them to leave the forum in despair (i was one of them - not saying I am intelligent)

Seeing as your current profile is barely a month old you must have posted under another username. You should:

A ) not do this: multiple usernames are prohibited under forum rules

B ) inform us of your previous username

C ) get the moderators to delete your previous account ASAP.

Actually it is a critique of several very dominant posters on this forum that take a very radical view point, are downright rude and actively stifle debate by either shouting AWOOOGA at posts that are clearly not or just being derogatory.

It would be less cowardly and more helpful if you would name names and use the "Report" button on posts which you think are derogatory (that's what it's there for). This vague slandering of the forum at large achieves nothing. I generally find that the moderators act firmly but fairly in most circumstances.

These would only look at one side of any argument, hound any one that held contrary viewpoints

...

a selection of closed minded individuals that have one track minds and will bend any evidence to fit their own viewpoint ...

This is as fitting a description for bulls as for bears (see VP's recent "Family Bust Up...Over House Prices" thread). In fact I've just about had enough of people like you coming on here and deriding and slagging off the forum continuously and vociferously. If you don't like the forum, don't post to it, don't read it, don't think about it. No-one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to navigate to this particular internet page. Either use HPC or don't, but don't come on here heaping derision and spite on the site and all it stands for. You only demonstrate your own bile and vitriol.

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Two years ago it was ahead of general sentiment, if it started up today it would be mirroring it. Spotting a trend years in advance is more impressive than any last minute jumping on the bandwagon.

Most site have oddball or extreme posters. And can you prove that "most intelligent posters went elsewhere"?

Except that their decisions and actions can't help but impinge onto my life at some point. Less than one per cent of the American people actually possessed stocks and shares during the period of the Wall Street crash, but that was enough to bring the US (and world) ecomomy to its knees.

nothing wrong with being ahead-of-the-curve.

....the sheep that follow the meeja are destined for the dinner-table and we have found the hole in the fence....and what's more are still lean enough to get through and make our escape.

...but in jungle-terms I'm a vulture so I'll just survey the wreckage from overhead and take my fill once the corpses are strewn all over the field....I can see it all going on before me so I really don't need to get involved in the killing as there are plenty of predators that will do the dirty-work for me.

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Actually I was posting as I know several people that have been turned off this website because of exactly the reasons I have given. Indeed one of the guys in the office reminded me of the forum, when it came up in conversation (incidentally he can't be bothered to post anymore as the lunatics have taken over the asylum as they say ...

Yes I did post under another name. The account no longer exists as it was a different format then

Frankly I'm bored of this - please continue to trawl the web for anything that supports the mantra. Please debate each snippet of info endlessly in an unhealthy obsessive manner- please continue to be rude and abusive to anyone that tries to give a reasoned debate and jump down their throat at any slight divergence from the consensus.

There will not be a full blown crash next year

It will be a dull year for the most part, some ups and some downs

VI will spin like crazy and property will probably end the year in low negative figures

There will be another people’s revolutionary front of disgruntled ex-students who will achieve nothing except to throw abuse at landlords, baby boomers, estate agents, the "sheeple" and basically anyone else just getting on with their lives.

goodbye and for the radical front happy obsessive placard waving, and haranging of disbelievers on this forum and all the other forums that you readily TROLL such as expats and singing pig (the infidel swines that you believe they are) how dare they decry the ONE truth?

I doubt if I will post again but will check back from time to time to check up on a few posts are some are excellent.

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Non-action?

If NOT buying a house has the effect of stopping the cycle then in a way it is...........action.

Only foolish generals attack in every circumstance. Wellington often sat tight and waited for the enemy to come to him. He won in the end didn't he? Eh?

So, don't be such a naughty chap and let us whinge whilst we let you drown - it masks the gurgling sounds.

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Plus out of the handful of interested parties that I have directed to this forum they ahve all been put off by what they see as a selection of closed minded individuals that have one track minds and will bend any evidence to fit their own viewpoint ...

Same here. I've stopped directing people to this forum, because even if they agree with my opinions on house prices, their first impression of the forum was invariably that we come across as a bunch of bitter individuals who are trying to talk the market down because we missed the boat.

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Is this true ? I always thought the cause was that everyman and his dog was buying shares (and borrowing to buy them) ?

I shall have to go away and have a read.....

Buckers

I dont know about if the stats of less than 1% owning stocks and shares during the wall street crash is true

or not, but I watched a copy of the channel 4 programme called A Century of the Self the other night

and it mentioned that the godfather of public relations Edward Bernays had a lot to do with engineering the popularity of stocks and shares amongst working people prior to the wall street crash.

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Yes I did post under another name. The account no longer exists as it was a different format then

There will be another people’s revolutionary front of disgruntled ex-students who will achieve nothing except to throw abuse at landlords, baby boomers, estate agents, the "sheeple" and basically anyone else just getting on with their lives.

goodbye and for the radical front happy obsessive placard waving, and haranging of disbelievers on this forum and all the other forums that you readily TROLL such as expats and singing pig (the infidel swines that you believe they are) how dare they decry the ONE truth?

I doubt if I will post again but will check back from time to time to check up on a few posts are some are excellent.

You're lying, I have only been posting since August 2005 and I definately remember you. :angry:

I remember the reference to "disgruntled ex-students" getting radical and attacking people who are "getting on with their lives". I can't remember your old username but you have posted here before (and not long ago) under another name.

I remember because I thought it was a bit weird that despite there having been recent polls of the ages and occupations of HPCers back then you insisted that we were all stroppy ex-students. My understanding is that the average age of people on here is probably thirty-three, consequently calling us "disgruntled ex-students" sounded very strange. So I recognise you now that you use the phrase again.

I get the feeling that you were accused of being a troll back then, if you are lying about your previous usernames then the people accusing you back then may have had a point.

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Same here. I've stopped directing people to this forum, because even if they agree with my opinions on house prices, their first impression of the forum was invariably that we come across as a bunch of bitter individuals who are trying to talk the market down because we missed the boat.

With respect...the poor dears. If anything I think the posts on this site are admirably restrained considering the vast, giant, overwhelming, domineering, controlling, excessive, self-interested lies that emerge hourly from the mouths of the huge army of vested interests all over the nation, in every newspaper, website, TV station, trade mag, EA, dinner conversations (don't get me started on this one!) which we are attempting in our pathetic way to counter.

So if your poor dear friends feel unable to occasionally drop in and witness the tiny influence this site has, David like, against the gargantuan power of the Goliaths whose drivel they soak up everyday without any complaint at all....then I don't feel obliged to apologise for the stress they feel in being exposed to an opposite view, FOR ONCE!

Have a nice day.

VP

Edited by VacantPossession

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I don't recall saying that my friends were stressed out by the idea of a crash. They're generally renting and in the same boat as the rest of us.

My point is, that the whingeing, and outpourings of hatred make this forum less credible, rather than more so.

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I don't recall saying that my friends were stressed out by the idea of a crash. They're generally renting and in the same boat as the rest of us.

My point is, that the whingeing, and outpourings of hatred make this forum less credible, rather than more so.

It's not hatred, it is an impassioned view that things need to change. If you don't like it buy a nice cook book and enjoy the nice menus instead.

VP

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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