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European Market Means Freedom Of Movement To The Uk Regardless Of Being In The Eu

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Does being in the European market mean people are able to come and work in the UK regardless of being in the EU. a friend on FB posted..

leaving the EU has a 99% chance of not changing a thing about the UK borders. Freedom of movement within the EU is not about being part of the EU, it's about being part of the European Single Market. Even if we vote to leave the EU, we will most likely remain in the European Single Market and therefore our borders will be exactly the same (see Switzerland)...

I can't seem to find answers on the Brexit campaign site. I think the UK should leave the EU but what is the point if EU immigrants can still come here and those that are here are allowed to stay? Is it realistic to force out all those who have settled here? It would be like a scene from planet of the apes rounding up these poor people..

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Does being in the European market mean people are able to come and work in the UK regardless of being in the EU. a friend on FB posted..

leaving the EU has a 99% chance of not changing a thing about the UK borders. Freedom of movement within the EU is not about being part of the EU, it's about being part of the European Single Market. Even if we vote to leave the EU, we will most likely remain in the European Single Market and therefore our borders will be exactly the same (see Switzerland)...

I can't seem to find answers on the Brexit campaign site. I think the UK should leave the EU but what is the point if EU immigrants can still come here and those that are here are allowed to stay? Is it realistic to force out all those who have settled here? It would be like a scene from planet of the apes rounding up these poor people..

Take your pick of the brexit views. Whatever you want to hear, I expect someone is saying it.

You might be looking for Gove, who tells us he wants to close the borders to EU people. In a fantasy world where the EU just rolls over and takes it, while nothing else happens. Nothing happens to Brits abroad, none of our high-value services get cut off, none of the rest-of-the-world relocates its investment to within the EU, our biggest companies don't continue to switch to Euros 'cos of the threat to the pound (e.g. Vodafone's announcement last week), our Universities can continue to educate foreign students presumably without them living in the UK, etc, etc. Above all sterling collapse doesn't lead to Venezuela-like shortages, including food and energy that rely on imports we can no longer pay for. Oh, and of course the French authorities don't close down the UK police presence at Calais, and word doesn't get out on social media to a billion impoverished Africans that that particular migration route just got easier for the next generation of Dick Whittington to seek his fortune.

Others are less extreme on the subject.

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I thought that you needed a visa or work permit to work in Switzerland, Norway, Iceland etc. I don't think that it is the same thing.

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Presumably the Government is free to put in place whatever restrictions they would like if Britain elects to leave the EU., Also the argument is surely that we have no control over these rules rather than what the rules actually are.

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I always thought a British passport was one of the best ones to have over others. It's hard to know which way to vote as there is no clear argument about what would happen. My experience of competing with Eastern Europeans for zero hr contracts tells me to vote leave. Establishment figures represent both sides so its hard to give them a bloody nose on this issue. It just seems the average guy on the street gets raped either way here.

You can stay in Hong Kong for 6 months without a visa so I don't see what relevance this argument about EU countries has tbh

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Its not the right to work to thats causing the problem in the UK.

Its the right to claim in-work benefits.

A studt (cant find link) found 80% of EU workers would not qualify for the new 'Come to work i nthe UK' hurdles set up.

i..e they are earning below 25k, meaning they will be claiming HB + TCs.

The EU problem with the UK is not the EU, its the stupid fcking 'Vote for Brown!' TC system.

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I thought that you needed a visa or work permit to work in Switzerland, Norway, Iceland etc. I don't think that it is the same thing.

Nope, same freedom of movement and the same EU laws are applied with the exception of agriculture and fisheries

Switzerland is an exception, but there is no chance the eu will offer the same deal again.

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which gives them an opportunity to decline (those with criminal records for example)

Wow what a great idea! Who'd of thought!

Project fear wants you to believe nothing will change.

It certainly won't if you vote to remain.

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Take your pick of the brexit views. Whatever you want to hear, I expect someone is saying it.

You might be looking for Gove, who tells us he wants to close the borders to EU people. In a fantasy world where the EU just rolls over and takes it, while nothing else happens. Nothing happens to Brits abroad, none of our high-value services get cut off, none of the rest-of-the-world relocates its investment to within the EU, our biggest companies don't continue to switch to Euros 'cos of the threat to the pound (e.g. Vodafone's announcement last week), our Universities can continue to educate foreign students presumably without them living in the UK, etc, etc. Above all sterling collapse doesn't lead to Venezuela-like shortages, including food and energy that rely on imports we can no longer pay for. Oh, and of course the French authorities don't close down the UK police presence at Calais, and word doesn't get out on social media to a billion impoverished Africans that that particular migration route just got easier for the next generation of Dick Whittington to seek his fortune.

Others are less extreme on the subject.

A lot of the arguments seem to assume that there will be some sort of functioning bloc of nations that are doing very well for themselves while we exclude ourselves from the party? The opposite is true really, we should leave before it all collapses, we will be in a much stronger position IMO.

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A lot of the arguments seem to assume that there will be some sort of functioning bloc of nations that are doing very well for themselves while we exclude ourselves from the party? The opposite is true really, we should leave before it all collapses, we will be in a much stronger position IMO.

Yep. The question really is which option is riskier. Leaving the EU will mean that enter the unknown but are able to make our own decisions, remaining means we are left to cope with decisions made by others.

I personally take one look at youth unemployment throughout the rest of europe (apart from Germany) and think running away asap is the best option...

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Its not the right to work to thats causing the problem in the UK.

Its the right to claim in-work benefits.

A studt (cant find link) found 80% of EU workers would not qualify for the new 'Come to work i nthe UK' hurdles set up.

i..e they are earning below 25k, meaning they will be claiming HB + TCs.

The EU problem with the UK is not the EU, its the stupid fcking 'Vote for Brown!' TC system.

+1 and for the life of me I don't understand why the Government don't grow some balls and reform it....

Or maybe it's because all the scare stories about BREXIT would also come true if they changed this..

So as far as the LibLabCon goes much of the same and we will tax you as much as we think is necessary to allow it all to be paid for. As for house prices and rents who gives a turd....

Truth be told our whole economy is now reliant on these taxpayer subsidies to landlords and employers.

Blair is going to get crucified as soon as Chilcott publishes we need another public enquiry as to why Brown was allowed to gamble away the UK economy.

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Does being in the European market mean people are able to come and work in the UK regardless of being in the EU. a friend on FB posted..

leaving the EU has a 99% chance of not changing a thing about the UK borders. Freedom of movement within the EU is not about being part of the EU, it's about being part of the European Single Market. Even if we vote to leave the EU, we will most likely remain in the European Single Market and therefore our borders will be exactly the same (see Switzerland)...

I can't seem to find answers on the Brexit campaign site. I think the UK should leave the EU but what is the point if EU immigrants can still come here and those that are here are allowed to stay? Is it realistic to force out all those who have settled here? It would be like a scene from planet of the apes rounding up these poor people..

That depends on what happens next. If the UK remains in the EEA (like Norway/Iceland/Liechtenstein) then yes they could still come here.

If the UK joins only EFTA and not EEA (like Switzerland) then no.

From wikipedia:

800px-Supranational_European_Bodies-en.s

Edited by The Young and the Nestless

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I always thought a British passport was one of the best ones to have over others. It's hard to know which way to vote as there is no clear argument about what would happen. My experience of competing with Eastern Europeans for zero hr contracts tells me to vote leave. Establishment figures represent both sides so its hard to give them a bloody nose on this issue. It just seems the average guy on the street gets raped either way here.

You can stay in Hong Kong for 6 months without a visa so I don't see what relevance this argument about EU countries has tbh

There is no clear argument, because, on exit, we could do as we pleased, which nobody knows yet.

If we stay, things could stay as they are, or they may not. which nobody knows yet.

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The UK has doubled its debt over the last 6 years under so-called austerity measures no-less. The UK needs to make radical changes to how it operates or it's just going to continue on its slide downwards. If people want a crowded island with broke councils and creaking infrastructure, low wages, HMOs everywhere, loss of communities, high house prices - then just vote for the status quo. If you want change, then you have to vote for change. The definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

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There is no hard and fast definition of what we are to vote for, certainly in terms of what a brexit vote would mean. However to address the OPs query, its the Schengen agreement which gives free movement across member states.

Bearing in mind DC would be negotiating on our behalf, and he's an inner. Also consider the following: DC stated immigration would slow down to 10's of thousands in the run up to the 2010 election. He was always going to fail as he cannot control EU migration, but he has failed to control non EU migration. In fact figures released by the ONS showed that in the 12 months to June 2015, net migration from non EU countries was 191k, compared to 172k net migration from EU countries.

So, the aspect of immigration DC could have controlled he has ignored. Even if there was to be restrictions put on to UK entry / right to work for those from other EU countries, the evidence suggests DCs policy would be to make it a formality that they would be accepted.

No wonder they havent defined what we are to vote for. DC wants us to wait for the result and then he can tell us what we asked him to do.

DC is trying to create a "heads I win, tails you lose" situation.

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There is no hard and fast definition of what we are to vote for, certainly in terms of what a brexit vote would mean. However to address the OPs query, its the Schengen agreement which gives free movement across member states.

Bearing in mind DC would be negotiating on our behalf, and he's an inner. Also consider the following: DC stated immigration would slow down to 10's of thousands in the run up to the 2010 election. He was always going to fail as he cannot control EU migration, but he has failed to control non EU migration. In fact figures released by the ONS showed that in the 12 months to June 2015, net migration from non EU countries was 191k, compared to 172k net migration from EU countries.

So, the aspect of immigration DC could have controlled he has ignored. Even if there was to be restrictions put on to UK entry / right to work for those from other EU countries, the evidence suggests DCs policy would be to make it a formality that they would be accepted.

No wonder they havent defined what we are to vote for. DC wants us to wait for the result and then he can tell us what we asked him to do.

DC is trying to create a "heads I win, tails you lose" situation.

Immigration from outside the EU has always been greater than from inside the EU. ;)

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The UK isn't in the Schengen zone. The Schengen agreement did away with passport checks at borders within the zone. There are passport checks for passengers coming into the UK, as you will have found if you've flown into any UK airport.

Freedom of movement is a Treaty principle to which the UK has signed up (as has been pointed out above, so have members of the EEA who are not in the EU).

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The UK isn't in the Schengen zone. The Schengen agreement did away with passport checks at borders within the zone. There are passport checks for passengers coming into the UK, as you will have found if you've flown into any UK airport.

Freedom of movement is a Treaty principle to which the UK has signed up (as has been pointed out above, so have members of the EEA who are not in the EU).

Thanks for that, i had a brainfart! (Can i blame my hayfever for causing me a lack of clarity of thought?)

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Eu people - show a passport to prove you're eu - can't stop them coming in.

Commonwealth people - show a passport to prove you're Commonwealth - come in under certain rules and conditions for entry.

Any other country - get onto the eu mainland - get an eu passport and show the passport and you can come in - or hitch a ride under/inside a lorry etc to get in. Or apply in the normal way with rules and conditions.

Plus asylum seekers and refugees, work visa entrants, students and tourists (some of the tourists etc will just "disappear").

UK isn't in the Schengen agreement but Schengen means anyone who sets foot on the eu mainland can travel straight to Calais without check to try their luck (however apparently some eu countries are now reneging on Schengen for movement into their own countries).

Once you're in the UK it's relatively treasure island (not for most locals of course).

----------------------------------------

Apparently the latest non British immigration annual figures are roughly:

Eu immigration - 257,000

Commonwealth immigration - 114,000

Non eu/non commonwealth - 159,000

ONS Statistics.

Some consider the ONS figures are low.

Edited by billybong

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I thought that you needed a visa or work permit to work in Switzerland, Norway, Iceland etc. I don't think that it is the same thing.

AFAIK Norway allows any EU citizen to enter and look for work, then you get 6 months or so to get a job or get booted out. Sounds pretty fair to me.

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There is no clear argument, because, on exit, we could do as we pleased, which nobody knows yet.

If we stay, things could stay as they are, or they may not. which nobody knows yet.

This ^^^^ the only thing that matters to me is the fact the UK will make that choice and if the choice that our leaders make is not what the electorate want`s we can vote them out at the next election....for the first time in a couple of decades or more our leaders will answer to the UK electorate with no EU shadows available for them to hide behind....cant do that it`s EU rules

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This ^^^^ the only thing that matters to me is the fact the UK will make that choice and if the choice that our leaders make is not what the electorate want`s we can vote them out at the next election....for the first time in a couple of decades or more our leaders will answer to the UK electorate with no EU shadows available for them to hide behind....cant do that it`s EU rules

+1

It's a matter of sovereignty and the UK making the choice.

In the (belated) 1975 Common Market/EEC referendum they promised that there would be no reduction in UK sovereignty. They lied.

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Yep. The question really is which option is riskier. Leaving the EU will mean that enter the unknown but are able to make our own decisions, remaining means we are left to cope with decisions made by others.

I personally take one look at youth unemployment throughout the rest of europe (apart from Germany) and think running away asap is the best option...

Austria is the vote to watch today.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36355615

Even if you went conspiracy mode and believed that some kind of "tampering" could take place with a postal vote, that still leaves a lot of the citizens not happy with the present set up? Replicate this scenario across a few countries and Brexit is the only vote that would make sense in the present circumstances?

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