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eek

Divorcee Mortgages

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Another plan to keep the market going in any shape or form

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/mortgages/the-trauma-of-losing-your-home-in-middle-age---and-the-divorce-m/

I especially like

Andrew Boast, of conveyancer Share a Mortgage, said that one of the first and easiest steps would be for mortgage lenders to be more flexible in their approach to allow for divorcing couples.

Since the Mortgage Market Review in 2014, lenders have been bound by strict rules that allow them to make only 15pc of all their loans at multiples of 4.5 times salary and above.

“We are faced with the problem that salaries aren’t going up at the same rate as property prices,” Mr Boast said.

“What we need is mortgage lenders starting to think about whether they can go to five times salary, six times salary, if someone can show they are able to afford it.”

Which at least admits house prices are solely due to the amount banks are willing to lend people...

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We are faced with the problem that salaries arent going up at the same rate as property prices,

NO SHìT.

Don't rent it....borrow it innit. ;)

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Which at least admits house prices are solely due to the amount banks are willing to lend people...

Don't tell RK who has no idea but tells he knows that it's little to do with lending.

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You've got to question how seriously one should take journalism produced by a journalist who confuses April 2014 MMR implementation with the FPC July 2014 'soft-cap' on lending volumes at high multiples.

The article describes a 'bright idea' dreamt up by a mortgage broker for a mortgage product that doesn't exist and for which, according to the article, no lender has any current plan to introduce.

The final quarter or so reads to me as an appeal to find somebody who wants to invest £80,000 Anna Robinson's house.

I'm curious that the OP feels the article is so noteworthy that it deserves a thread and believes the article is evidence of "another plan to keep the market going in any shape or form". Sounds to me as if the OP wants desperately to believe that some shadowy cabal is standing behind house prices always and forever, and that the OP is just clutching at straws to bolster the waning plausibility of that view.

Edited by Ghost Bird

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No I just want another article that confirms how you always want to show how clever you are.

Firstly I would not expect or care if a journalist got a fact or two wrong. Once you know something about anything it becomes obvious that journalists are not experts in everything they write. They repeat what they are told...

Oh and it is interesting as its a new potential business model. The use of a fixed period loan with repayments built in the amount loaned is (as far as I'm aware) new.

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Under the proposed plan, the lender would give the divorcee a lump sum, which they could use to buy their estranged partner out of the home..

wow like no one has ever borrowed money to buy their partners share before...thats new.

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I must say how p*ssed off I am with the reports of liberal availability of mortgages.

I am self employed and have missed out on 3 houses, all of which I could afford easily and would have made offers on, had I been able to secure a mortgage.

There is something very fishy in all this journalism crap which means that I occasionally become encouraged enough to try again only for another rebuttal.

Still in 6 years I will be able to buy for cash so since this will be post crash hopefully I will have saved in the long run.

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Oh and it is interesting as its a new potential business model. The use of a fixed period loan with repayments built in the amount loaned is (as far as I'm aware) new.

Two points.

  • Firstly, it's not a new business model, it's potentially a new lending product.
  • Secondly, the extent to which it is "new" is mitigated by the fact that it doesn't actually exist.

I don't know how much you know about how the lenders decide which products to offer to the market, but if you think that it begins with brokers moaning about the MMR in the Telegraph and fantasising about possible new products, then I think you are mistaken.

As to the rather juvenile ad hominem attack you've offered, I think you are confusing knowledge with intelligence. One could be stupid and know that the soft cap is not part of the MMR just as one be could be intelligent but due to ignorance believe incorrectly that it was. Of course one could be stupid and ignorant, and that skill set might lead to spinning wild fantasies about "another plan to keep the market going in any shape or form" from the very thin gruel of a crap Telegraph piece. Knowing that the MMR is separate to the FPC soft-cap is not cleverness, it is just familiarity with details of the some of the more significant regulatory interventions in the previous couple of years.

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I must say how p*ssed off I am with the reports of liberal availability of mortgages.

I am self employed and have missed out on 3 houses, all of which I could afford easily and would have made offers on, had I been able to secure a mortgage.

There is something very fishy in all this journalism crap which means that I occasionally become encouraged enough to try again only for another rebuttal.

Agreed, and whilst I think it's perfectly OK for anyone to start threads about mortgage finance on HP&TE, I do think it doesn't serve the forum so well to start threads based on VI BS advertorials and then flag them in the OP with lots of significance totally out of keeping with what is actually being reported.

Of course, if you then, as eek has done, throw your toys out of the pram when somebody takes the time to point this out to you, then the whole business is damn near trolling in my book.

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Mr Boast said.

“What we need is mortgage lenders starting to think about whether they can go to five times salary, six times salary, if someone can show they are able to afford it.”

How can anyone 'show' they can afford a mortgage 5 or 6 times salary, isn't that the point of a limit? It's ok, I can afford it if I only eat 2 pieces of toast a week! The world is going batsh*t crazy.

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I must say how p*ssed off I am with the reports of liberal availability of mortgages.

I am self employed and have missed out on 3 houses, all of which I could afford easily and would have made offers on, had I been able to secure a mortgage.

There is something very fishy in all this journalism crap which means that I occasionally become encouraged enough to try again only for another rebuttal.

Still in 6 years I will be able to buy for cash so since this will be post crash hopefully I will have saved in the long run.

If you are a non standard customer you need to find a broker who knows how to present your application in the exact format to the appropriate people at the mortgage company (its why there are a set of mortgage brokers that specialize in getting mortgages for IT consultants).

Personally however I take one look at the prices of all houses at the moment and think you want HOW much for that and decide to stay where I am...

As for why I find these schemes interesting, the last time I remember articles like this becoming main stream was in 1989 just before the last proper crash...

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If you are a non standard customer you need to find a broker who knows how to present your application in the exact format to the appropriate people at the mortgage company (its why there are a set of mortgage brokers that specialize in getting mortgages for IT consultants).

Personally however I take one look at the prices of all houses at the moment and think you want HOW much for that and decide to stay where I am...

As for why I find these schemes interesting, the last time I remember articles like this becoming main stream was in 1989 just before the last proper crash...

Together mortgages as in Northern Rock is my bellwether ,and similar deals are said to be in the pipeline

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Two points.

  • Firstly, it's not a new business model, it's potentially a new lending product.
  • Secondly, the extent to which it is "new" is mitigated by the fact that it doesn't actually exist.

I don't know how much you know about how the lenders decide which products to offer to the market, but if you think that it begins with brokers moaning about the MMR in the Telegraph and fantasising about possible new products, then I think you are mistaken.

As to the rather juvenile ad hominem attack you've offered, I think you are confusing knowledge with intelligence. One could be stupid and know that the soft cap is not part of the MMR just as one be could be intelligent but due to ignorance believe incorrectly that it was. Of course one could be stupid and ignorant, and that skill set might lead to spinning wild fantasies about "another plan to keep the market going in any shape or form" from the very thin gruel of a crap Telegraph piece. Knowing that the MMR is separate to the FPC soft-cap is not cleverness, it is just familiarity with details of the some of the more significant regulatory interventions in the previous couple of years.

Which you understand in minute detail and expect everyone else to. As I explained earlier I wouldn't expect a journalist to know such things, in fact I was surprised that any mention of a cap was mentioned as it wasn't required for the initial article...

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Which you understand in minute detail and expect everyone else to. As I explained earlier I wouldn't expect a journalist to know such things, in fact I was surprised that any mention of a cap was mentioned as it wasn't required for the initial article...

Let's break this down.

You start a thread and the journalist is some features writer at the Telegraph, not a finance journalist and not even one of the personal finance team. You don't flag that the article is a piece of crap, you dress it up as if it was a big deal. You select a quote which includes an error which hundreds of lurkers and posters would have clocked.

I clock it and point it out because it somewhat undercuts the credibility of the piece if the journalist gets such elementary details wrong and if the point of departure of the thread is the Telegraph piece then criticising the quality of the piece is on-topic and constructive.

You then attribute this intervention to your critic's desire to show off how clever they are. You're now doubling down and suggesting that having knowledge of these elementary facts is to "understand" the "minute detail" and that pointing them out to you is somehow the same as expecting "everyone else" to know them.

I am not seeking to upset you, nor am I seeking to alleviate you of the burden of your ignorance. If you want to believe that knowledge of the mundane is mastery of the minute detail, it's not in my power to stop you and I am not in the least bit motivated to try.

Let's look at your post again.

As I explained earlier I wouldn't expect a journalist to know such things, in fact I was surprised that any mention of a cap was mentioned as it wasn't required for the initial article...

Cracking stuff, I suspect a job at the Telegraph is yours for the asking.

I was also trying to get a grip on you.. And now I have it... :lol:

I have a perspective on you, and it continues to develop as the evidence accrues. Let's do this again some time. It's been fun.

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Isn't the oddest thing about the original post the twisted logic, which implicitly assumes that house prices keep rising as some sort of immutable natural force which can never be reversed..........

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If you are a non standard customer you need to find a broker who knows how to present your application in the exact format to the appropriate people at the mortgage company (its why there are a set of mortgage brokers that specialize in getting mortgages for IT consultants).

Personally however I take one look at the prices of all houses at the moment and think you want HOW much for that and decide to stay where I am...

As for why I find these schemes interesting, the last time I remember articles like this becoming main stream was in 1989 just before the last proper crash...

I have been in bank after bank, with broker after broker. There is only one thing that will get a mortgage and that is to lie. There are many doing this but I am not prepared to. I have a perfect credit score according to expedia and 300k deposit. Still a no go.

I am VERY selective in what I would consider purchasing. There are the occasional bargains out there. Simply not prepared to consider run of the mill dross at stupid prices. There is nothing on the market I would consider at the moment but know that one previously unsold would be open to offers.

I agree with you completely as regards the crash but am frustrated just as many are on HPC. We only have one life to live and I only bring up my family once.

My choice but this divorcee/BTL/IO/HTB mortgage tripe and housing market open to foreign dirty money needs killing dead so the market can find its true value.

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A load of wishful thinking chronic from VI, imo.

HPC is coming. :)

splitting up with her husband of 15 years, and doesn’t have the money to buy him out of their former home in Luton.

She said: “It’s almost like dealing with a loss. We’ve been married for 15 years so it’s a difficult change of circumstances to get used to.

“This is my home, and staying here would give me stability, peace of mind and happiness.

“It’s lovely here. There’s countryside and a nature reserve. It’s my home, where I feel happy.”

So stay married, or sell and move (even rent from STR at such high prices) let the HPC play out, then buy something cheaper.

Although I've really read it all on HPC in the past, including how renter-savers should be expected to understand other people's choices don't work out - including relationships - and for divorcing/splitting couples, the renter-savers should put them first and hope they find a way to keep the high-value house, not sell, get more debt for house with fewer people living in it.... not do anything that reality otherwise suggests they'd have to do. Carry the HPI. Other people make choices and they matter more.

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Isn't the oddest thing about the original post the twisted logic, which implicitly assumes that house prices keep rising as some sort of immutable natural force which can never be reversed..........

Damn you EC with your 'perspective'. For f**ks sake. Get on board! House prices go up magically, people need to borrow more or find 'investors' to help them pay the exogenously higher house prices.

I am drunk and tired and I can't quite zero in on it but surely the unspoken message in the article is that once the marriage fails both adults are due their share of the capital gain. However the only way for them both to enjoy the capital gain without selling the house is for lending rules to be relaxed. Hence loads of sobbing from mortgage brokers about the fact that lending rules are tighter than they used to be.

For all eek's bullsh!t about certain posters (i.e. me) being show-offs parading their inexplicable knowledge of mortgage lending rules the heart of the article is actually the opposite of what eek purports. This is not a story about how loose lending will enable the market to keep going, it is a story about how loose lending is gone. Ms Robinson wants to keep hold of her share of the capital gain without the inconvenience of selling the house and proposes that this can be achieved if she can borrow more, but the banks won't allow it, (because of MMR).

Some tw@t mortgage broker has some daft as a brush idea about how if MMR had never happened you could lend loads of money to people who could never pay it back so that they could hold on to their capital gain, but, unsurprisingly, the imagined daft lending product does not exist at present and will possibly never exist.

eek has completely missed the point. This is not a "Here have more drugs" news story. This is a "The dream is over" story.

Edited by Ghost Bird

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So stay married, or sell and move (even rent from STR at such high prices) let the HPC play out, then buy something cheaper.

The s-word?

It's taboo these days. Please don't mention it again. We wouldn't want people to think that HPC was entirely captured by pea-brained numbskull anarchists. ;)

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And once again GhostBird gets it wrong. Yep, this to me is another end of current market story (remember I have a long memory back to 1989)... All these stories are attempts to keep the current market going by creating stupider and stupider products to try and keep the plates spinning...

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People in the financial services industry must have goldfish memories.

I guess they've blanked out the huge crash due to the subprime mortgage market.

Or maybe it's just the fact they got free bailout cash and there were no charges against any of the crooks involved.

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