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Usa: Lich Lords Steal Pensions - 407,000 About To Lose Pension.

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http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-05-21/407000-workers-stunned-pension-fund-proposes-60-cuts-treasury-says-not-enough


407,000 private sector workers are about to lose most of their pensions.

Currently the plan pays out $3.46 in pension benefits for every $1 it receives from employers. That’s a drain of $2 billion annually.

The Central States Pension Fund has no new plan to avoid insolvency, fund director Thomas Nyhan said this week. Without government funding, the fund will run out of money in 10 years, he said.

At that time, pension benefits for about 407,000 people could be reduced to “virtually nothing,” he told workers and retirees in a letter sent Friday.

In a last-ditch effort, the Central States Pension Plan sought government approval to partially reduce the pensions of 115,000 retirees and the future benefits for 155,000 current workers. The proposed cuts were steep, as much as 60% for some, but it wasn’t enough. Earlier this month, the Treasury Department rejected the plan because it found that it would not actually head off insolvency.

The fund could submit a new plan, but decided this week that there’s no other way to successfully save the fund and comply with the law. The cuts needed would be too severe.

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20 years ago they told us 'immigration will solve all our pension woes'

Nowhere has had more immigration than the US, and yet the US has vast deficits and now growing pension problems.

Zirrp has been the last nail in that coffin immigration was nothing but a delaying tactic "not on my watch " ,an IFA told me this was the end for most private pension providers 5-6 years ago when it was pretty clear "emergency" rates were here to stay for the foreseeable future

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Zirrp has been the last nail in that coffin immigration was nothing but a delaying tactic "not on my watch " ,an IFA told me this was the end for most private pension providers 5-6 years ago when it was pretty clear "emergency" rates were here to stay for the foreseeable future

Yep, Just kicking the can down the road as long as possible. We've still got a few people left at our company on the final salary scheme and it's all they talk about, golden handcuffs and all that. Irritating to think I'll be working to keep those schemes running for most of my working life.

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Dear lord that is absolutely huge! The Teamsters were at one time one of the largest and most powerful unions. Of course, come the day of the driverless car, who will be paying into union funds?

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20 years ago they told us 'immigration will solve all our pension woes'

Nowhere has had more immigration than the US, and yet the US has vast deficits and now growing pension problems.

Phew that was a close one we are saved

EXCLUSIVE POLL: 12 MILLION Turks say they’ll come to the UK once EU deal is signed

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/672563/Turkey-EU-Britain-exclusive-poll-crime-figures-Turks

Edited by long time lurking

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Yep, Just kicking the can down the road as long as possible. We've still got a few people left at our company on the final salary scheme and it's all they talk about, golden handcuffs and all that. Irritating to think I'll be working to keep those schemes running for most of my working life.

Don't employers have to have seperate schemes for the Defined Benefits (final salary) and Defined Contribution participants with people only paying into the scheme type they will benefit from? I thought that was one of changes brought in during the last big set of pension reforms?

Edited by EssKay

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20 years ago they told us 'immigration will solve all our pension woes'

Nowhere has had more immigration than the US, and yet the US has vast deficits and now growing pension problems.

Imagine how the Native Americans feel...

They had a stable culture in perfect balance with nature for thousands of years and roamed free across an unspoiled natural paradise before those pesky immigrants arrived.

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Imagine how the Native Americans feel...

They had a stable culture in perfect balance with nature for thousands of years and roamed free across an unspoiled natural paradise before those pesky immigrants arrived.

This is a bit off topic, but what you are stating is the modern, PC-version of the Blood Libel. It's a complete lie. Just as Jews did not regularly kill Christian babies, Europeans did not cross the Atlantic in order to slaughter the native populations. Europeans do not need to see their own countries destroyed (and handed over to global corporations) in order to atone for their guilt.

The population of native americans actually collapsed by about 90% before the arrival of any significant number of european settlers. Most european migrants were entering an almost deserted land. And pre-columbian history has numerous examples of civilizations collapsing due to poor management of natural resources. The cities of the Mayans were ruins long before the spanish showed up.

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Don't employers have to have seperate schemes for the Defined Benefits (final salary) and Defined Contribution participants with people only paying into the scheme type they will benefit from? I thought that was one of changes brought in during the last big set of pension reforms?

That's true the scheme I pay into is separate however my company contribute into both schemes, but contribute a lot more into the final salary scheme and will continue to do so after they've all gone to keep the fund afloat I expect. Ultimately it is a drag on profit.

To be fair you can't blame the workers for taking those excellent deals and one day people may say the deal we're on is 'too good'...

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Another failure of 'capitalism' (more accurately the aberration of it once the inevitable hijacking takes place).

Zirp is keeping our paragons of wealth creation (the finance industry) on life support. Pity it's also the rot ebbing it away from the inside out.

To hell with it, so long as the gravy train is steaming ahead, despite the track running out

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Guest eight

To hell with it, so long as the gravy train is steaming ahead, despite the track running out

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Edited by eight

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Imagine how the Native Americans feel...

They had a stable culture in perfect balance with nature for thousands of years and roamed free across an unspoiled natural paradise before those pesky immigrants arrived.

Citation needed....

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Imagine how the Native Americans feel...

They had a stable culture in perfect balance with nature for thousands of years and roamed free across an unspoiled natural paradise before those pesky immigrants arrived.

Citation needed....

That's true the scheme I pay into is separate however my company contribute into both schemes, but contribute a lot more into the final salary scheme and will continue to do so after they've all gone to keep the fund afloat I expect. Ultimately it is a drag on profit.

To be fair you can't blame the workers for taking those excellent deals and one day people may say the deal we're on is 'too good'...

woah Neddy, the curse of the Venger be upon you....oh noes, the only experts that dont count are mortgage experts.

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Europeans do not need to see their own countries destroyed (and handed over to global corporations) in order to atone for their guilt.

The population of native americans actually collapsed by about 90% before the arrival of any significant number of european settlers. Most european migrants were entering an almost deserted land. And pre-columbian history has numerous examples of civilizations collapsing due to poor management of natural resources. The cities of the Mayans were ruins long before the spanish showed up.

Agree with the first point, but what's that got to do with immigration in the USA?

On the second point, I thought the impact of European immigration on Native American population numbers was pretty widely accepted by now. A quick Google search returns this article:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/12/111205-native-americans-europeans-population-dna-genetics-science/

There's also a pretty good book on the subject of how civilisations with different levels of technological development interact by Jared Diamond - "Guns, Germs and Steel" (spoiler: the less advanced civilisation usually takes a kicking)

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That's true the scheme I pay into is separate however my company contribute into both schemes, but contribute a lot more into the final salary scheme and will continue to do so after they've all gone to keep the fund afloat I expect. Ultimately it is a drag on profit.

To be fair you can't blame the workers for taking those excellent deals and one day people may say the deal we're on is 'too good'...

Yeah - I can see your point. Top ups to the DB scheme over the years massively exceed the DC scheme contributions at the place I work too

At least they are being financially responsible though - unlike the public sector DB schemes which pretty much all have massive unfounded liabilities (can anyone say Ponzi scheme?)

Funnily enough, a lot of those public sector beneficiaries feel that other taxpayers should bail them out rather than some of their (very generous) retirement benefits being cut

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This is a bit off topic, but what you are stating is the modern, PC-version of the Blood Libel. It's a complete lie. Just as Jews did not regularly kill Christian babies, Europeans did not cross the Atlantic in order to slaughter the native populations. Europeans do not need to see their own countries destroyed (and handed over to global corporations) in order to atone for their guilt.

The population of native americans actually collapsed by about 90% before the arrival of any significant number of european settlers. Most european migrants were entering an almost deserted land. And pre-columbian history has numerous examples of civilizations collapsing due to poor management of natural resources. The cities of the Mayans were ruins long before the spanish showed up.

That is an absurd perversion of history it should be classed as mass denial and delusion. The Europeans who ventured forth to America were not some random people who thought "Ooh this looks nice, no-ones here."

They systematically took over the land with hilariously one sided treaties and battles because, well, Gun beats spear and "I want that; i really really want that."

What is more pertinent are the first hand accounts of the European settlers not understanding the concept of Native American land ownership; i.e. The Native Americans did not believe you could "Buy" land for private ownership individually.

Next you'll be telling me the slave ships to America were just the Colonialists being ever so benevolent and buying at market rates. "Ooh they only bought them from Africa because Africans were selling them. And anyway slavery was around for years etc etc."

Manifest Destiny as an ideology was inherent in much of American colonization by Europeans.

As for much of Latin America, just read first hand accounts of the mainly Spanish that colonised that region. Read Christopher Columbus's accounts of how his crew were amazed at how docile and sexually voracious the natives on many islands were whilst they raped them. Literally.

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This is a bit off topic, but what you are stating is the modern, PC-version of the Blood Libel. It's a complete lie. Just as Jews did not regularly kill Christian babies, Europeans did not cross the Atlantic in order to slaughter the native populations. Europeans do not need to see their own countries destroyed (and handed over to global corporations) in order to atone for their guilt.

The population of native americans actually collapsed by about 90% before the arrival of any significant number of european settlers. Most european migrants were entering an almost deserted land. And pre-columbian history has numerous examples of civilizations collapsing due to poor management of natural resources. The cities of the Mayans were ruins long before the spanish showed up.

The insignificant numbers of Europeans who discovered Americas took diseases such as smallpox which killed 90% of the indigenous population 100 years before the bulk of the settlers arrived.

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Agree with the first point, but what's that got to do with immigration in the USA?

On the second point, I thought the impact of European immigration on Native American population numbers was pretty widely accepted by now. A quick Google search returns this article:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/12/111205-native-americans-europeans-population-dna-genetics-science/

There's also a pretty good book on the subject of how civilisations with different levels of technological development interact by Jared Diamond - "Guns, Germs and Steel" (spoiler: the less advanced civilisation usually takes a kicking)

From your link:

Based on the data, the team estimates that the Native American population was at an all-time high about 5,000 years ago.

Guns, Germs and Steel has a pretty good discussion of how Native Americans weren't wiped out in some genocide planned and carried out by Europeans, as some would have us believe. The population of the Americas was going to suffer a cataclysmic crash no matter who showed up from Europe, Asia or Africa.

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That is an absurd perversion of history it should be classed as mass denial and delusion. The Europeans who ventured forth to America were not some random people who thought "Ooh this looks nice, no-ones here."

They systematically took over the land with hilariously one sided treaties and battles because, well, Gun beats spear and "I want that; i really really want that."

What is more pertinent are the first hand accounts of the European settlers not understanding the concept of Native American land ownership; i.e. The Native Americans did not believe you could "Buy" land for private ownership individually.

Next you'll be telling me the slave ships to America were just the Colonialists being ever so benevolent and buying at market rates. "Ooh they only bought them from Africa because Africans were selling them. And anyway slavery was around for years etc etc."

Manifest Destiny as an ideology was inherent in much of American colonization by Europeans.

As for much of Latin America, just read first hand accounts of the mainly Spanish that colonised that region. Read Christopher Columbus's accounts of how his crew were amazed at how docile and sexually voracious the natives on many islands were whilst they raped them. Literally.

Thank you for the Dancing with Wolves version of American history. Kevin Costner really knows his stuff.

The population of North America had collapsed by 90%. Many of the expansionist tribes against whom European settlers actually engaged in military battles, such as the Iroquois, had no more claim to the land than the British (or do you assume that because they're just Indians that they're all inter-changeable?).

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From your link:

Based on the data, the team estimates that the Native American population was at an all-time high about 5,000 years ago

Not sure what your point is. Do you think that invalidates the article's conclusion? i.e.

"The number of Native Americans quickly shrank by roughly half following European contact about 500 years ago, according to a new genetic study. The finding supports historical accounts that Europeans triggered a wave of disease, warfare, and enslavement in the New World that had devastating effects for indigenous populations across the Americas"

Guns, Germs and Steel has a pretty good discussion of how Native Americans weren't wiped out in some genocide planned and carried out by Europeans, as some would have us believe. The population of the Americas was going to suffer a cataclysmic crash no matter who showed up from Europe, Asia or Africa.

Bit of a straw man there. Who said it was a planned genocide? Agree the impact would probably have been similar if another more advanced culture had arrived on their shores but as Europe was pretty much at the top of the tech tree, the impact was probably as bad as it could be

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