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Barnsey

Prices Up In Norwich 40% Since Market Bottom 2009-11?

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Just recently having more thoughts of considering Norwich as an area to potentially buy in when the time is right in the coming few years when everything goes pop, but looking at prices in Norwich of 3/4 beds I'm quite impressed at the kinds of increases I'm seeing since the market bottomed out after the recession.

Am I right in thinking many homes up for around 250k back then are now going for 350k? Just seems like insane HPI for the area, I know it's relatively protected in some people's minds from many potential "issues" in bigger cities but are wages/job opportunities really that good to semi-justify the prices or is it down to London money and retirees? I would be taking a pay cut if moving and it wouldn't be looking great for my other half either.

One example of my naive surprise:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-39970140.html

Any insight into the market would be hugely helpful as I've been looking North for so long I've kept my eye well and truly off the East.

Edited by Barnsey

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Hi Barnsey,

I'm watching this at the coalface and believe me there seems to be a lot of mileage in the Norwich housing market despite the average wage levels! On my rightmove searches, more and more fairly ordinary houses (my description) seem to be coming in at £300k, many newbuilds.

If your preference is Victorian style then check out Earlham Rd & Unthank Rd areas (NR2) & Constitution Hill (NR3). Some nice period houses around there.

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Hi Barnsey,

I'm watching this at the coalface and believe me there seems to be a lot of mileage in the Norwich housing market despite the average wage levels! On my rightmove searches, more and more fairly ordinary houses (my description) seem to be coming in at £300k, many newbuilds.

If your preference is Victorian style then check out Earlham Rd & Unthank Rd areas (NR2) & Constitution Hill (NR3). Some nice period houses around there.

Also hoping to buy in Norwich (all of my family are there so I should get through passport control). I'm looking at victorian terrace style, anything up (2 beds fine) or down, ideally in NR1, NR2, NR3, or Thorpe St.Andrew area. Up to 200k tops, or as little as I can get away with. Price wise nothing really moved from 2008 to 2013 and then it started taking off, with 10-20k slapped on prices annually. There was a lot of supply in my personal search area up until March and it seems to have dropped off a cliff. Encouragingly, I am seeing some houses coming onto the market now at similar to 2013 sold prices. I hope I'm in BTL territory and their exit goes to everyone's else's favour.

Matt - Noted, there "could" be mileage in the Norwich market as there are a couple of factors to consider, London refugees like me, and the Cambridge overspill. I'm in a position to buy, and could kill the small mortgage in 5 years on a low fix... You're at the coalface, are locals buying at silly wage multiples, or what's going on?

Edited by Starla

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Thanks for the info very useful, I remember seeing in the Telegraph a map showing where BTL would be making biggest losses even if interest rates stay where they are by 2020 and pretty sure the area is one of the worst hit after SE and London so there's hope!

Edited by Barnsey

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You're at the coalface, are locals buying at silly wage multiples, or what's going on?

I don't really know to be honest. I have identified a lot of houses and flats sold and then up for rent a few months later, so classic landlord pricing citizens out (as does happen everywhere).

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I remember seeing in the Telegraph a map showing where BTL would be making biggest losses even if interest rates stay where they are by 2020 and pretty sure the area is one of the worst hit after SE and London so there's hope!

Good, that's perked me up. I'm just looking at 1 or 2 bedroomed flats at the bottom of the market. A couple have caught my eye but no way in hell are they worth £110k! Would have to think twice even at 40% off.

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^ Good grief! :blink:

There appears to be some serious hedge trimming when comparing it to Google Streetview.

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I'm looking at victorian terrace style, anything up (2 beds fine) or down, ideally in NR1, NR2, NR3, or Thorpe St.Andrew area.

Hi Starla, Thorpe St. Andrew is nice. I grew up on a housing estate nearby - we weren't middle class enough for TSA!

Most of the Victorian-ish terraced housing in on Yarmouth Road. The area within Plumstead Rd East/Harvey Lane/Yarmouth Rd would be my location of choice in TSA. Quick drive into the city centre from here (15 minutes roughly).

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Hi Starla, Thorpe St. Andrew is nice. I grew up on a housing estate nearby - we weren't middle class enough for TSA!

Most of the Victorian-ish terraced housing in on Yarmouth Road. The area within Plumstead Rd East/Harvey Lane/Yarmouth Rd would be my location of choice in TSA. Quick drive into the city centre from here (15 minutes roughly).

Hi Matt :) Thanks but I'm not sure I'm "middle class" enough for TSA either!

Interesting you say about your location of choice on Yarmouth Road as this one was in my holding pen on Rightmove, just SSTC this week after 3 months of sitting on the market. http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-39752922.html

My Uncle had a place on a side road off Harvey Lane so I know it well. I'm not as keen on the north or west of the city, but happy to go east and south, Lakenham direction.

A family member has warned me about not buying a house in a part of Norwich that will fall into a sink hole (encouraging!) Exaggerated urban myths or are these common? Plumstead Road...

http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/update/2016-01-29/sinkhole-uncovered-in-norwich/

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A family member has warned me about not buying a house in a part of Norwich that will fall into a sink hole (encouraging!) Exaggerated urban myths or are these common? Plumstead Road...

http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/update/2016-01-29/sinkhole-uncovered-in-norwich/

A few old chalk mines around there, Ketts Hill and Rosary Rd. And then there's the famous one on Earlham rd in 1988. :)

http://smallglassplanet.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/careful-where-you-walk.html

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Long time lurker, seldom poster.

Moved to Norwich a few years ago and renting modestly.

Looking for value for small starter home (3br & garden) near the city, preferably nicer areas that will hold value and rent easily if/when there is correction/fall/stagnation in the market (have seen this all before having lived through the lunacy of 07/08 and came out unscathed).

Housing stock looks complicated. Some nice overpriced houses limited new builds. So where should I look - local auctions any use? What are the key things to look out for locally and what's best to avoid?

Update: see quite a few recent drops in asking prices for some places, quite a lot of kite flying and bungalow homes with no onward chain (previous owner croaked it/in home). Whats is shpporting the market here? Is the market on the turn?

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Some nice overpriced houses limited new builds. So where should I look - local auctions any use? What are the key things to look out for locally and what's best to avoid?

Update: see quite a few recent drops in asking prices for some places, quite a lot of kite flying and bungalow homes with no onward chain (previous owner croaked it/in home). Whats is shpporting the market here? Is the market on the turn?

I haven't the foggiest tbh. I overpaid for and sold one leasehold flat in my life so I'm not the best person to ask. Research the sold neighbouring properties and base any offers you may wish to make on those prices is the only very bog standard tip I can offer.

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I've been watching this one slide over the last few months from an asking price of £180k (optimistic), to 170k and now at £160k.

BTL, currently rented at £595pm, bought in 2003 for £117k. After buying and selling fees, plus 28% capital gains tax, it's "gained" about 26k over 13 years. With missed opportunity cost, it doesn't appear worth the effort whether they bought cash or leveraged. With Clause 24 it definitely isn't.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-57750710.html

Usual line "Ideal FTB or investment". It doesn't seem to be either so far. The road looks scruffy, and so do the houses either side. "Good enough for renters" obviously, but it's good to see obvious BTL properties like this, not being snapped up. The more of this sort of thing the better, as I'd like to see everything else get dragged down at the margin.

Edited by Starla

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I've been watching this one slide over the last few months from an asking price of £180k (optimistic), to 170k and now at £160k.

BTL, currently rented at £595pm, bought in 2003 for £117k. After buying and selling fees, plus 28% capital gains tax, it's "gained" about 26k over 13 years. With missed opportunity cost, it doesn't appear worth the effort whether they bought cash or leveraged. With Clause 24 it definitely isn't.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-57750710.html

£26k gain in 13 years. Glad to say that I made considerably more than that over the same period. I personally wouldn't live there even if there was a bargain to be had. Making a right turn out of that road would be a pain as the A147 Carrow Rd/King St gets very busy during the day. Would make a better home someone who doesn't drive or is a Norwich City fan.

BTW, I like your signature Starla. :) Work colleague seems to think that renting privately is a choice and not a last resort. Sums up how incredibly thick some people are! <_<

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£26k gain in 13 years. Glad to say that I made considerably more than that over the same period. I personally wouldn't live there even if there was a bargain to be had. Making a right turn out of that road would be a pain as the A147 Carrow Rd/King St gets very busy during the day. Would make a better home someone who doesn't drive or is a Norwich City fan.

BTW, I like your signature Starla. :) Work colleague seems to think that renting privately is a choice and not a last resort. Sums up how incredibly thick some people are! <_<

That's what the Rightmove Sold Prices tab says, and it seems consistent with others in the road. Honestly, not only are BTL taking houses away from owner occupiers, but this one would have made comparable "profits" by using a Super Saver Account instead (at an unsophisticated minimum, assuming cash buyer, otherwise the rent would barely wash the face of the mortgage). Not even taking into account voids and things breaking. I realise some parts of Norwich have gone to stellar heights, but not everywhere.

Sig - Ha ha thanks, I'm surrounded by this sort of fckwittery in Corporate London Work-Land constantly. Apparently I wholeheartedly support BTL because I rent. Next week I'll object to drunk drivers and be told I'm hypocritical because I own a car.

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Thanks for the input MattW. Just thought I'd ask as you seem to be fairly active on the forum on Norwich market.

Starla - seems to be a fair few of houses/flats like this in Norwich.

My brief, data limited/non-scientific analysis of Norwich residential market suggests it's a real mixed bag.

Attractive 3 bed & garden family homes in decent areas, priced reasonably, look like they are going very quickly (8/10 tracked in last month have sold stc), others are languishing. A quick search on zoopla indicates c30% of houses on the market have had reductions. Surely the EAS must be preparing some vendors for price reductions especially for places on for prolonged periods (kite flyers). Have they forgot that volume not margin is crucial?

Also spoke to an independent residential valuations guy recently who mentioned that some buyers are "overpaying" (he has advised them of this and they are accepting it due to lack of "quality housing stock"/choice). Yields at current asking 'prices' look low to be considered.

What do you think?

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Also spoke to an independent residential valuations guy recently who mentioned that some buyers are "overpaying" (he has advised them of this and they are accepting it due to lack of "quality housing stock"/choice). Yields at current asking 'prices' look low to be considered.

What do you think?

If they are overpaying then I wonder how those that require mortgages are able to get them to buy houses? :blink:

Certainly agree that there's very little stock at the moment. I see very few new instructions at the bottom end of the market that I'm looking at (c.£100k flats) and last night I carried out a basic search of bungalows for sale in Norwich on Rightmove and it brought up just 4 pages of results.

Edit - 87 results today.

Edited by MattW

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I've been watching this one slide over the last few months from an asking price of £180k (optimistic), to 170k and now at £160k.

BTL, currently rented at £595pm, bought in 2003 for £117k. After buying and selling fees, plus 28% capital gains tax, it's "gained" about 26k over 13 years. With missed opportunity cost, it doesn't appear worth the effort whether they bought cash or leveraged. With Clause 24 it definitely isn't.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-57750710.html

Usual line "Ideal FTB or investment". It doesn't seem to be either so far. The road looks scruffy, and so do the houses either side. "Good enough for renters" obviously, but it's good to see obvious BTL properties like this, not being snapped up. The more of this sort of thing the better, as I'd like to see everything else get dragged down at the margin.

By way of an update, this is STILL for sale. Now dropped to £149,950. From memory it started at 180k. I have absolutely no interest in this sort of BTL offloading clag, but I do have in interest in the fact it won't shift and it will drag other prices down at the margin.

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By way of an update, this is STILL for sale. Now dropped to £149,950. From memory it started at 180k. I have absolutely no interest in this sort of BTL offloading clag, but I do have in interest in the fact it won't shift and it will drag other prices down at the margin.

According to Property Bee it was first listed on 19th March of 'offers in excess of £170k'. Seems like the EA was wide off the mark with his/her valuation. Reduced to £150k on 28th July. Seems like the vendor and EA are now being more realistic, post Brexit.

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So the property in the opening post is back on the market again (linked property has been removed): currently at £285k (reduced from opening price on this entry of £325k)

12/08/2016,
Brief Description changed: **** HALL ENTRANCE **** BMA Estates are delighted to offer this four bedroom hall entrance Victorian terrace house with potential for further development located on the Dereham Road just outside of Norwich City Centre.
Price changed: Guide Price £280,000 £285,000
10/06/2016,
Brief Description changed: **** HALL ENTRANCE **** BMA Estates are delighted to offer this four bedroom hall entrance Victorian terrace house with potential for further development located on the Dereham Road just outside of Norwich City Centre.
Price changed: Guide Price £295,000 £280,000
23/05/2016,
Brief Description changed: **** HALL ENTRANCE **** BMA Estates are delighted to offer this four bedroom hall entrance Victorian terrace house with potential for further development located on the Dereham Road just outside of Norwich City Centre.
21/05/2016,
Price changed: Guide Price £325,000 £295,000
06/05/2016,
Initial entry found.

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Norwich is definitely a two speed market at the moment in the segment I am watching 4/5 bed 300-400k

The slowdown is mainly due to silly asking prices what would get snapped up for 350 just is not attractive at 400 6 months later.

NR2 which I have been priced out of is still really shocking with a couple of jessop road homes going for over 450k (300/350 in 2011)

Had my first agent say it was a bubble (this last leg) the other day even they are getting deeply frustrated with people not being happy with 300k+ for grannies house and wanting 400k plus when local wages just won't support it.

At the end of the day if like me you're priced out of the golden triangle at 450 you not going to go to thorpe end and pay 450 as you may just sit put.

The other fundamental is that everything else being equal buyers still have to find more stamp duty if they are moving from a flat.

Edited by Fromage Frais

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Had my first agent say it was a bubble (this last leg) the other day even they are getting deeply frustrated with people not being happy with 300k+ for grannies house and wanting 400k plus when local wages just won't support it.

Interesting anecdote.

Meanwhile at the bottom end of the market a flat in NR2 that would suit me has reappeared on Rightmove with an asking price of £122,500. It was previously listed in June at an already overpriced £120k! :blink:

FFS if there were no buyers @ £120k then why does the vendor (and Estate Agent for that matter) think it's worth any more money?! Brexit? The Olympics? :rolleyes:

If EAs think that their clients are being too greedy then they should have the balls to ask them to lower the asking price and/or to accept the lower but generous offer. Otherwise they should be told that the agents won't market their homes.

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Interesting anecdote.

Meanwhile at the bottom end of the market a flat in NR2 that would suit me has reappeared on Rightmove with an asking price of £122,500. It was previously listed in June at an already overpriced £120k! :blink:

FFS if there were no buyers @ £120k then why does the vendor (and Estate Agent for that matter) think it's worth any more money?! Brexit? The Olympics? :rolleyes:

If EAs think that their clients are being too greedy then they should have the balls to ask them to lower the asking price and/or to accept the lower but generous offer. Otherwise they should be told that the agents won't market their homes.

Your right of course.

There are too many agents and some will have to go and they are indulging the fantasy.

I dont like it but I will admit it what sold for 350 last year will still sell today.

The problem is sellers refuse to list for 360 and go for 420 odd.

I cannot be good for the economy to have a stuck market they will either have to bubble it up or introduce some cost of carry.

A good agent should always ask for an offer even if it just gives a third party's view to the vendor of the true worth. However the last 3 viewings I have been on they have not even asked for an offer even when the property has been on for a few months.

I would not be surprised if a few listings are grannies house just to make it look like they have stock for sale.

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