Huth Tracked Back

[Steppenpig]

I must have seen at least a couple of hundred episodes of Homes Under the Hammer, and perhap two or three where it the reckless gamble failed to make money. I've always been tempted to try and track down the actual results. On the recent episodes on BBC, they avoid identifying the property, but on the old episodes from 2007 and 2008 being shown on "Really" and "Homes", they sometimes reveal the exact address. Today saw

Flat 1, Haccombe House Haccombe, Newton Abbot, Devon TQ12 4SJ

bought at auction for 104k, sorry, missed the actual cost of doing it up, but it was a fairly simple decoration, so a few grand, now apparently sold in 2012 for 112.5k


http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/TQ12-4SJ.html?backListLink=%2Fproperty-for-sale%2Ffind.html%3FlocationIdentifier%3DPOSTCODE%5E879013%26minPrice%3D120000%26maxPrice%3D150000%26minBedrooms%3D2%26radius%3D0.5

The significant bit being, the agents on the show valued it at 127 to 135k, and the owner was extremely sniffy about the lower valuation. Ha!

Edited April 28, 2016 by Steppenpig

[Steppenpig]

22 Wedderburn Rd, Harrogate

from 2007, 206k paid at auction, with renovation costs, 231k (allegedly), agents valued it at 260 to 295k

sold 2010 for 260k

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/HG2/Wedderburn-Road.html

(a profit, but at bottom of agents estimate, after 3 years)

[Steppenpig]

35 Albion St, Exter (two flats)

from 2007, 156k paid plus 40k renovation, agents value at 270 to 280k

Sold 2008/2012 for 117+133=250k

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/house-prices/devon/st-thomas/albion-street/

Edited April 27, 2016 by Steppenpig

[Steppenpig]

Mill Cottage, llandogo

150 paid

24 renovation

174k total

Valued at 195 to 200k.

Appears to have gone STC for 160k in 2012, althugh presumably collpsed

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-38426264.html

And did in fact sell for 200k in 2013 (resold for 232k in 2015)

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/mill-cottage/llandogo/monmouth/np25-4tj/16800764

[Steppenpig]

So they did all make a profit in nominal terms at least, but at the bottom end of agents valuations. I suppose that's not bad for 2007/2008. I suspect more recent examples will mainly show profits thanks to hpi.

[XswampyX]

26th March 2015

At the end of the day, I spent

about three times of money than the original budget.

So in total, perhaps I have spent £67,000.

Well, a £60,000 spend on top of a £32,500 purchase price

has meant her total costs are £92,500.

So, can this still be a worthwhile investment?

What do two local estate agents think?

My first impressions of the two properties is,

"This lady's got the Midas touch. I want her to buy

"my lottery ticket on Saturday."

It's perfect.

I think the lady has really maximised the space

and I can imagine that it would be great for a young couple

or first-time buyers, cos it's such a convenient little village to live in.

There's a train station up the road

and you've got everything that you need in the village.

The conversion and the finish, I think, are...are on the money.

No need to be too flashy, but equally, don't be too plain.

Alicia intends to rent out the two studio flats, but having spent

£92,500 on them, would they generate any return if she sold them on?

If I was to market these properties in the current property market,

I would be looking to market each property in the region of £75,000.

They are both essentially the same

and I'd see them on the open market at £82,500 each.

£75,000 and £82,500,

I think are a slight bit low.

But if I can achieve it, I'm still happy.

Well, she should be reasonably happy because those valuations

would see a pre-tax profit of between £57,500 and £72,500.

Less taxes and expenses, of course.

So, how will they fare on the all-important rental market?

In the rental market, I believe these properties would achieve

something in the region of £475 per calendar month.

On the rental market, I can see £500 per calendar month, each.

I think 500, perhaps, is possible. 475 is a little bit low.

Actually, this property is already on the market for 525.

Even the lower £475 per calendar month would generate

a healthy annual rental yield of 12%.

So perhaps it was worth the wait, after all.

What's next for Alicia?

Not a lot!

As of today....

Source :- http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION%5E583&insId=1&sortType=1&numberOfPropertiesPerPage=10

[renting til I die]

We need at least 10 more years of this, plus a big crash in the SE to put the final nail into property investing and that stupid HUTH!

[nome]

The show is a complete joke with entirely made up costs and valuations in almost every single episode (Yet I still watch it occasionally!)

Probably the most annoying aspect for me is something that no one else ever seems to notice...when they interview the agent in the pre auction segment, who says 'once renovated this property would be worth around £150k'

Then along comes our btl/developer hero who overspends, paying £150k purchase price, plus perhaps another £20k on refurb costs, plus legals.

Oh dear it looks like he's set to make a loss, but wait, what's this...

The SAME agent only a couple of months later comes along and now values the property at £200k, ensuring our btl/developer hero has made a healthy profit due to them being wise,diligent and savvy... cue the happy music and smiling faces all round.

The ONLY times they show someone overpaying or making a loss is when the the buyer is an OO... because, of course, all OO's are just incompetent amateurs when compared to the 'professional' property 'investors'

And don't even get me started on some of the ludicrous claimed refurb costs that you see in almost every episode, i.e. new roof, new windows, re-wire, re-plaster, new damp proof, new central heating, new kitchen, new bathroom, redecorated throughout all done by paid tradesman ''It came in bang on budget at £12,000''

[GreenDevil]

HUTH only works while property is cheap as chips. Problem now it aint any more. With rip off HPI and 3%-5% taxes before you even get started, you need a healthy depsoiti and bank balance to even get anywhere near auction property.

Expect that program to bite the dust in the next few years.

[Guest eight]

I thought this was going to be about Leicester City's title run-in.

[Wurzel Of Highbridge]

We all know this is 'entertainment'. but the problem is that many people take this as investment advice and that's partially the reason for the $hit we're in now.

If I had a reality 'entertainment' program about buying shares and the getting someone to value them +50% a month later, whilst in reality I couldn't make a penny on them would that be allowed to be broadcast? I think not as it would be our right deceptive and look like investment advice. I can't see the difference between this and property programs - in fact property speculation programs are worse as they appeal to peoples emotuions of buying a nice family home / doing a good turn for a poor rental couple.

These property speculation programs should all be band IMO.

[ccc]

The show is a complete joke with entirely made up costs and valuations in almost every single episode (Yet I still watch it occasionally!)

Probably the most annoying aspect for me is something that no one else ever seems to notice...when they interview the agent in the pre auction segment, who says 'once renovated this property would be worth around £150k'

Then along comes our btl/developer hero who overspends, paying £150k purchase price, plus perhaps another £20k on refurb costs, plus legals.

Oh dear it looks like he's set to make a loss, but wait, what's this...

The SAME agent only a couple of months later comes along and now values the property at £200k, ensuring our btl/developer hero has made a healthy profit due to them being wise,diligent and savvy... cue the happy music and smiling faces all round.

The ONLY times they show someone overpaying or making a loss is when the the buyer is an OO... because, of course, all OO's are just incompetent amateurs when compared to the 'professional' property 'investors'

And don't even get me started on some of the ludicrous claimed refurb costs that you see in almost every episode, i.e. new roof, new windows, re-wire, re-plaster, new damp proof, new central heating, new kitchen, new bathroom, redecorated throughout all done by paid tradesman ''It came in bang on budget at £12,000''

Yep this happens a lot. Yet unless you are watching it carefully - you wont notice. Not to be focusing on one sex more than the other here - but I think a lot of wives sitting at home whilst hubby is out making some $$ get completely sucked in by this show. And the fact they don't have the attention to detail to even notice it's basically fiction - means they really aren't going to be great at doing it themselves.

The best one I saw was in Scotland. I think it was a shop and a couple of flats behind. Bought by a family that owned the shop next door. I cant remember the details but it ended up looking like they would be down something like £100k.

I was sitting thinking to myself - how the ****** are they going to spin this one. I needn't have worried. The final 'valuation' decided to include another derelict property that they ALREADY owned behind their own shop - and the POTENTIAL profits they MAY make if they developed that into a couple of flats.

Hey presto - massive loss becomes massive gain in one fell swoop. Smiley happy music all round. They may as well have added in their pension pot, savings accounts and great Uncle Bob's future inheritance into the total.

[sPinwheel]

http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2015/06/25/09/Huth.jpg

[Steppenpig]

27 Chesterfield Rd, Belper

2008 paid 93k, spent arounf 30k, total around 120k

Valuation, 135 to 140k, rental valuation 500 pm.

2014, property withdrawn, marketed at 135k

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property-history/27-chesterfield-road/belper/de56-1ff/34109427

2010 let 575 pm

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-26529331.html

So failing to achieve bottom 2008 valuation 6 years later. Rent better than predicted though.

[XswampyX]

6 Years later £125,000 @ 5% interest = £37,512 all for £575 pm - interest @ 5% = £521 = £575 - £521 = £54 pm (profit)

£37512 / £54 = 57.8 years to pay back the interest you have paid in the last 6 years!

Way to f**king go!

[Steppenpig]

One thing I find interesting and surprising about HUTH, is that many amateur developers are actually really talented at the design, use of space, choice of materials, and decoration generally. (Most professional trades and buildings persons are completely useless at the "attractiveness" part of buildings). Also, I think having the cameras round might encourage people to go for a higher spec, which may be the reason the EAs come back with a higher valuation (Actually, today the EA came back with a lower valution on one property, and not because it was crap, I just think there is some randomness to their guesses).

I do think that some of these people are genuinely adding value through their development, while many others are simply benefitting from holding property in a rising market, and could have saved themselves all the bother of the redeveloping.

I do think the BBC/producers should be in some way be held liable for the mass misinvestment they are causing. Candidates regularly say "I enjoy the show" etc. and it gives a very misleading impression of the risks involved. And it is amazing how many people don't get the property they were intending, and buy some other on spec. It doesn't seem to occur to them, that (assuming the auction market is rational) that the property they are buying on spec is probably as overvalued as the one they had failed to buy becuse having done their homework, they judged it tooexpensive.

This morning there was a couple who must have been in their mid to late seventies, who were building up a small portfolio of "non standard construction" properties, because they were cheap. I think the bloke was actually quite financially sensible, but I'm not sure it occurred to him funding the twighlight years by offloading "hard to sell" properties might turn out badly. He got a bit sniffy about one EA valuing his home at less than his total investment.

45 Bretton Avenue, Littleover, Derby

bought 2015, 71k, total cost 83k, estate agen valuations 80 ~ 100k

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detail.html?country=england&locationIdentifier=STREET%5E2102455&searchLocation=Bretton+Avenue&propertyType=1&referrer=listChangeCriteria

So unlikely to have made any significant profit

[Steppenpig]

Tracked down a recent one

181 Cog Lane, Burnley

paid 33.5k Feb 2015, renovation 8k, EA valuation 50 ~ 60k, sold 51.5k Dec 2015

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=36887265&sale=2550340&country=england

That's a sale at the bottom end of the valuation again, a nominal profit of 10k max

I am beginning to think HUTH is an even bigger scam than I thought.

[MattW]

^ Nice house! I like the decor. The developer done well to get a bathroom upstairs and retain 3 bedrooms.

I wish there was a 'HUTH' database of locations of the properties and what price they sold for. I would like to do a survey of Norfolk properties which have occasionally been featured.

[Steppenpig]

May as well complete the troika

21 Campion Way, Liverpool

purchased 133k Oct 2014, renovation (allegedly) 5k, valuation 170 ~ 173k

Actual currently under offer for under 150k

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/37506997#uV4yR72vFK21EfTC.97

Thats 7 months development and 10 months on market later. (claimed "straight back on the market")

nominal profit of 12k rather than the claimed 35k

I am beginning to think this is a scandal ("things have gone pretty well for chris, on his first auction purchase")

The last 3 properties are all from series 19, episode 40, broadcast yesterdy, presumably a repeat.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06j67z1/homes-under-the-hammer-series-19-episode-40

edit:Oh, the rental was 750 to 850 pm, so he would have made more by buying the property in finished condition and renting it out for the 17 months,

Edited April 30, 2016 by Steppenpig

[Steppenpig]

^ Nice house! I like the decor. The developer done well to get a bathroom upstairs and retain 3 bedrooms.

Lots of nice, cheap houses in Burnley. I didn't like the long corridor.

[MattW]

I didn't like the long corridor.

I wasn't keen on the corridor layout either tbh.

[ccc]

HUTH is mostly fiction. It doesn't take long to work it out.

The fact that it's sold as 'fact' and is encouraging people to follow suit - which is adding to the already ******ed up UK housing market - and is funded by the licence fee and has had almost 700 episodes made on the BBC - is an absolute scandal

[Steppenpig]

S-20-7 broadcast yesterday

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b079vjwg/homes-under-the-hammer-series-20-episode-7

109 Peasehill, Ripley

2-bed terrace

June 2015, guide 46k, paid 65k, costs 17.5k, total 82.5k

valuation 105 - 115k

the purchaser did the renovation work himself. 12 - 14 weeks.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=38465961&sale=53854148&country=england

**************************

294 Slade Rd, Erdington, Birmingham

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=52301359&sale=1957693&country=england

4-bed mid terrace

April 2015, guide 75k, paid 104k, renovation costs 20k, total 124k

valuation 175 - 180k

Appears to have been marketed post renovation at 169,950

http://www.paulcarrestateagents.co.uk/pdfs/E002564.pdf

but there is one similar and less attractive nearby for 179,950

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-56663216.html

****************

12 Pulleyns Avenue, East Ham

3-bed mid terrace

July 2015 guide 180k, paid 320k, spend18k. total 338k

Dec 2015 valuation 410 - 425k

currently on market and under offer for 400k

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-38385789.html

what it looked like before

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=46807030&sale=54120368&country=england

[Mrs Bear]

I'm another who can't believe some of the renovation costs quoted. A relative has bought and done up a couple of flats that were in a dire condition and the costs of a major refurb that has to include new boiler, plumbing and electrics, were far more. And she freely admitted that the net profit made wasn't anything to shout about, but she said it was a reasonable return for the huge amount of time and effort put in (not doing it all herself but organising and choosing everything, and constant checking up on the tradesmen). Not that she bought these at auctions, but they were probably bought at comparatively reasonable prices since the state of them would have put so many other buyers off.

However in her case (and I can imagine in others) there was enormous satisfaction in turning horrible filthy dumps you wouldn't leave a dog in overnight (well, OK, the dog probably wouldn't care) into something really nice.

I think in some cases, serial doing up and selling on could be addictive from that POV alone.

[nome]

The programme doesn't deserve the respect we're paying it by even discussing it here.

Just about every aspect of it is quite obviously ******** and fantasy figures... As others have already said if any other finance or investment programme claimed to offer factual and accurate info when in fact all the figures are just made up fantasy numbers and very best case scenarios then I'm sure the various regulatory bodies and watchdogs would come down on it like a tonne of bricks.