Time To Revoke/reduce Existing Pension Pay-outs?

[newaccount99]

The bottom line is that although we are proud of our welfare state the country can't afford the welfare, social security, health and pension commitments it has promised. Sure everyone is entitled to 'health' etc....but the it has to be funded by somewhere and the bucket is limited.

Ultimately the taxation revenue for these services comes from industry in the form of NI, PAYE and VAT (from the spending of employee renumeration). Gordon Browns tactic has been to spend more and more and it's at the cost of industry productivity.

Industry is now pretty much all global - initally this was just manufacturing but service sector is also going east-bound too. Companies get upto 5 years tax free incentive to locate in Bagalore at the moment....guess what they are therefore doing. Right now I am sat at my desk and 1/2 of the employees in my office are Indian nationals there are as many again working in our offshore centre. As well asthe taxation benefit they are finding the work ethic and education of the Indian and Chinese is as comparable or better too.

5 years ago my office would have been all UK workers paying circa £30K per annum in taxation to the government.....I don't know what's happened to these UK workers perhapes they are now in the public sector. I reckon I have 5 years more tops myself before my job goes overseas.

[Boughtin95]

It's not they're fault they grew up in a golden age I agree - but that doesn't mean we're not entitled to grab it back off them and say "It's OUR TIME NOW".

I'm not quite sure how you intend to "grab it back from them", burglary & mugging perhaps?

As for saying "it's our time now", you're dead right it IS our/your time now, so get out there, get to work, earn a living and make your own way in the world, DON'T expect to have your bum wiped while you're doing it though.

[29929BlackTuesday]

I'm not quite sure how you intend to "grab it back from them", burglary & mugging perhaps?

As for saying "it's our time now", you're dead right it IS our/your time now, so get out there, get to work, earn a living and make your own way in the world, DON'T expect to have your bum wiped while you're doing it though.

Er.. ok dad.

Look, that is what I do anyway - don't fall into the trap of apeing your parents in the way you speak. It's just that sort of "Get out into the big wide world and stop whingeing" that covers our eyes to the fact that we're being USED!

I DO work hard - and pay all taxes. I'm married (like Elton but to a lady) and am fully prepared and glad to be a part of productive society so don't come all American Dad on me sunny Jim. Don't you see you're being DUPED?

Politeness from us / not arguing / not rocking the boat etc is NOT HOW THE BOOMERS GOT WHERE THEY ARE! We should take a leaf from their books and be LOUD, BELICOSE, FOOT STAMPING people who won't shut up (like you want us to) and do as we're told meekly.

Edited December 21, 2005 by 29929BlackTuesday

[Smell the Fear]

Well, I'm 26 and the view of me and my friends/colleagues of similar age is that we are on our own. No company pensions, so we're just going to pay our own way and plod on - DIY.

Just as we are told that there are no guarantees in life etc., we will have no qualms about taking it off the boomers.

After all, there may have been guarantees when they were young, but let's face it, they must have been stupid to believe it. Reality will bite them hard, as they aren't even expecting it.

Injustice will not be tolerated for ever.

[Solvent Celt]

Of course if people weren't spending such crazy proportions of their monthly salary servicing huge mortgages, personal loans and credit card repayments they might have more to spend on pension provisions?

Perhaps the Billions extra of our taxes that Blai just gave away to subsise the Polish underground system etc would have been better spent?

The government puts the net 'contribution' cost of our EU membership (1999) at £8.5 billion (equal to almost 4p of income tax) and current estimates put it at £11 billion. Wouldn't that extra 4p of income tax be better spent than on subsidising French farmers and the EU gravy train?

[MarkG]

so get out there, get to work, earn a living and make your own way in the world,

Indeed. Go to university, study hard and build up big student debts so you can pay 50% of your income in one tax or another, and can't afford to buy a house, or to get married and have kids. And remember that you'll be working until you're 70 and then will have to live in a cardboard box and eat dog-food because after 50% of your income was stolen from you to pay for the welfare state you couldn't afford a pension.

Screw that.

[ʎqɐqɹǝʞɐɥs]

Indeed. Go to university, study hard and build up big student debts so you can pay 50% of your income in one tax or another, and can't afford to buy a house, or to get married and have kids. And remember that you'll be working until you're 70 and then will have to live in a cardboard box and eat dog-food because after 50% of your income was stolen from you to pay for the welfare state you couldn't afford a pension.

Screw that.

But its okay everyone because 'Boughtin95' bought in 1995. Not that they like to gloat or anything.

[MarkG]

Of course if people weren't spending such crazy proportions of their monthly salary servicing huge mortgages, personal loans and credit card repayments they might have more to spend on pension provisions?

Yep, just think about that for a moment. If you start work at 20 on 25k a year and end up paying 10k of that in income tax, council tax, national insurance, VAT, petrol tax, alcohol tax and all the other taxes we're loaded up with.. what's that cost you?

10k?

Not quite. If you'd put that in an investment fund that only made 5% a year, then by the time you retired at 70, that 10k would have been worth 115k... pay the same every year for a decade, and you're down a million pounds by the time you retire. If that fund could make 10% a year, that 10k alone would cost you over a million by the time you retired.

Odds are we lose more money thanks to high taxes than most of us will ever earn in our lives.

Edited December 21, 2005 by MarkG

[ʎqɐqɹǝʞɐɥs]

Er.. ok dad.

Look, that is what I do anyway - don't fall into the trap of apeing your parents in the way you speak. It's just that sort of "Get out into the big wide world and stop whingeing" that covers our eyes to the fact that we're being USED!

I DO work hard - and pay all taxes. I'm married (like Elton but to a lady) and am fully prepared and glad to be a part of productive society so don't come all American Dad on me sunny Jim. Don't you see you're being DUPED?

Politeness from us / not arguing / not rocking the boat etc is NOT HOW THE BOOMERS GOT WHERE THEY ARE! We should take a leaf from their books and be LOUD, BELICOSE, FOOT STAMPING people who won't shut up (like you want us to) and do as we're told meekly.

Hear f***in' here mate!

[Smell the Fear]

I'm not quite sure how you intend to "grab it back from them", burglary & mugging perhaps?

As for saying "it's our time now", you're dead right it IS our/your time now, so get out there, get to work, earn a living and make your own way in the world, DON'T expect to have your bum wiped while you're doing it though.

People like to make money in the easiest way possible. It is what we have been taught by the free-riding boomers.

Soon, the easiest way to make a living will be to terrorise the unjustly wealthy over 60s. Easy pickings once the hips get stiff and the eyes and ears aren't up to much.

Obviously, I'm not speaking from my own point of view, but the truly disadvantaged will have no mercy.

The boomers will retreat abroad (but I reckon the locals there will be even less merciful) or into gated communities, leaving the housing stock for people who actually need it.

[MarkG]

Good point: the Boomers may soon come to regret having built 'a country fit for Chavs'.

[Boughtin95]

Er.. ok dad.

Look, that is what I do anyway - don't fall into the trap of apeing your parents in the way you speak. It's just that sort of "Get out into the big wide world and stop whingeing" that covers our eyes to the fact that we're being USED!

I DO work hard - and pay all taxes. I'm married (like Elton but to a lady) and am fully prepared and glad to be a part of productive society so don't come all American Dad on me sunny Jim. Don't you see you're being DUPED?

Politeness from us / not arguing / not rocking the boat etc is NOT HOW THE BOOMERS GOT WHERE THEY ARE! We should take a leaf from their books and be LOUD, BELICOSE, FOOT STAMPING people who won't shut up (like you want us to) and do as we're told meekly.

That's good to hear, one less for our taxes to be wasted on.

Sorry if you think I'm coming across as your Dad, that was never my intention.

I'm not suggesting you be polite, quiet or meek for a moment. Get out, stamp your feet, demonstrate constructively, DON'T shut up (last thing I want, we'd have no fun!) but don't whinge.

I don't think I'm being duped, I think I'm being ripped off. This Government will do absolutely nothing to help you, I and people like us (The employed. married, tax payer), come the next election I'll use my right to vote and TRY to change things.

In the interim period, I'll carry on as I always have done, saving for my own and my families future, because barring a lottery win, no-one is going to give it to me on a plate.

[Justice]

what you want to reduce pensions when 66% of police officers retire before the age of 50 due to ill health.

You got to be joking, i already get too many speeding fines :angry:

[miro2021]

I'd rather quit work, blow my savings on beer and loose women and live on welfare, thanks. If I was planning to continue living in the UK I would see absolutely no incentive to continue being a productive worker.

Exactly - I have so far not started a pension because I don't trust the government to be able to afford to allow me to benefit from my prudence when I retire.

[29929BlackTuesday]

That's good to hear, one less for our taxes to be wasted on.

Sorry if you think I'm coming across as your Dad, that was never my intention.

I'm not suggesting you be polite, quiet or meek for a moment. Get out, stamp your feet, demonstrate constructively, DON'T shut up (last thing I want, we'd have no fun!) but don't whinge.

I don't think I'm being duped, I think I'm being ripped off. This Government will do absolutely nothing to help you, I and people like us (The employed. married, tax payer), come the next election I'll use my right to vote and TRY to change things.

In the interim period, I'll carry on as I always have done, saving for my own and my families future, because barring a lottery win, no-one is going to give it to me on a plate.

Thanks for decent reply! Sorry to rant at you - it's not really you I want to rant at. And I do intend to vote my way out of it; revolution is a poor mother - she eats her children. Basically we need to get people our own age into power (D Cameron) so they can begin to legislate in our favour.

Have a happy Christmas and New Year etc.

[A late entrance..]

Stop your moaning - just wait for them to start popping their clogs and we'll inherit it all eventually. It may take another 30 or 40 years but that's how we'll 'aspire' to owning the assets of our parents generation

Edited December 22, 2005 by A late entrance..

[Smell the Fear]

Stop your moaning - just wait for them to start popping their clogs and we'll inherit it all eventually. It may take another 30 or 40 years but that's how we'll 'aspire' to owning the assets of our parents generation

Some of us have a more utilitarian approach to housing:

ITS FOR LIVING IN.

I don't give a damn about paper wealth - just quality of life.

[Justice]

Stop your moaning - just wait for them to start popping their clogs and we'll inherit it all eventually. It may take another 30 or 40 years but that's how we'll 'aspire' to owning the assets of our parents generation

I think all the immigrants flooding in will have something to say about that don’t you !

[Boughtin95]

Thanks for decent reply! Sorry to rant at you - it's not really you I want to rant at. And I do intend to vote my way out of it; revolution is a poor mother - she eats her children. Basically we need to get people our own age into power (D Cameron) so they can begin to legislate in our favour.

Have a happy Christmas and New Year etc.

No apologies necessary mate and no offence taken.

I agree, we definitely need radical change in this country, we're all being squeezed dry!

Like you I sincerely hope for the HPC to happen, I have two adult children who cannot afford to buy at current rates either.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and yours also.

[A late entrance..]

Some of us have a more utilitarian approach to housing:

ITS FOR LIVING IN.

I don't give a damn about paper wealth - just quality of life.

Sorry, it was just a joke - one I like to aim at my BB father: "why buy a house when I can just wait for you to pop your clogs?"

[29929BlackTuesday]

Sorry, it was just a joke - one I like to aim at my BB father: "why buy a house when I can just wait for you to pop your clogs?"

That's when you find out it's been left to the Cat's Protection League or the Donkey Sanctuary! Nooooo!!!

It's difficult isn't it? You're friends with your parents but are eaten up with anger at their luck at being born when they were. You want their house but you want them to be alive. Why do they sit there like fat chickens? It's their house though isn't it?

In the 60's and 70's everyone was in the Rotary Club and under 35. There was a club called the 41 Club for those over 41 and had VERY few members. Now almost ALL the members are in the 41 club. Wgat I mean is that the establishment was YOUNG and THEIRS! It's still theirs but old.

Did the boomers have similar problems about their parents? Mine had probs with theirs - all messed up 'cos of the war and kids just rebelled.

How can we rebel now? We're not teenagers so can't listen to Duran Duran anymore. What's left?

The boomers mottto was "Let's change the world to the way WE WANT IT"

Ours is "Wait... just a bit longer....maybe when you're 50....just don't complain"

Is it actually wrong to feel unhappy about this? Is it 'righteous anger'.....or petulance?

Edited December 22, 2005 by 29929BlackTuesday