Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
spyguy

And The He Earning Stats Start To Roll In ...

Recommended Posts

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f326e3f4-00b6-11e6-99cb-83242733f755.html#axzz45SgqCoNb

'Graduate earnings for men at more than one in 10 universities and colleges were lower than for non-graduates, according to a major new study that analysed student loans and tax data for England.'

These sort of stats are going to get worse + worse.

Two problems here -

1) Future funding for HE will struggle as the number of grads fail to reach earning hurdle to pay the graduate tax (which is what the student loan really is, at the mo - but might have to change to be more loan like).

2) A lot of graduates will struggle to get a mortgages as the loan repayment suck cash out.

Thank you Blair, you total tnuc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not enough graduate jobs many will get stuck at the bottom in dead end jobs.

Surely they are all getting high paid jobs in London banks or setting up ar entrepreneurs ( aka scum landlords )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to put a minor positive alternative view on this, most graduate roles start off poorly paid as employers are often paying for some form of training or qualifications for three or four years.

Particularly non-south east areas, people can often head straight out of school in to the trades and be earning £30 - £40k within a couple of years if they're willing to graft. Trouble is, they tend to hit a wall after that, with the only way to expand being to take on investment which the majority of them just aren't able to do, despite the Alan Sugar delusions of the majority of small town tradespeople.

Contrast that with trainee solicitors, surveyors, accountants or even doctors, who may even take till the mid to late 20s or more to break the £30k barrier but, by the time they're 40 or so might be earning £50k upwards with a lot of scope to develop further. They will likely (and usually do) outstrip non-graduates comfortably over the course of a working life.

The problem I guess is the number of graduates who aren't equipped or are just unwilling to take on a professional qualification or a trade after uni. These people will most likely either wind up in a default 'career' in London (can't afford anything more than a rented room but it pays £40k a year, yay I'm a success) or dwindling out the rest of their days in a call centre or worse. These are the people who will be the first to be pushed out of HE if the impending grad tax funding fiasco hits.

Good thing? In my view, investing in a more educated populace saves us money in all sorts of other ways...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New labour's target of 50% of school leavers going to university was a disaster, resulting in degrees being dumbed down & becoming less valuable just as the process of getting one became more expensive - what could possibly go wrong there? Loads of young people have signed up to do worthless degrees on the basis that they'll be able to get ahead in their careers are just in practice lumbering themselves with huge debts for no practical gain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to put a minor positive alternative view on this, most graduate roles start off poorly paid as employers are often paying for some form of training or qualifications for three or four years.

Particularly non-south east areas, people can often head straight out of school in to the trades and be earning £30 - £40k within a couple of years if they're willing to graft. Trouble is, they tend to hit a wall after that, with the only way to expand being to take on investment which the majority of them just aren't able to do, despite the Alan Sugar delusions of the majority of small town tradespeople.

Contrast that with trainee solicitors, surveyors, accountants or even doctors, who may even take till the mid to late 20s or more to break the £30k barrier but, by the time they're 40 or so might be earning £50k upwards with a lot of scope to develop further. They will likely (and usually do) outstrip non-graduates comfortably over the course of a working life.

The problem I guess is the number of graduates who aren't equipped or are just unwilling to take on a professional qualification or a trade after uni. These people will most likely either wind up in a default 'career' in London (can't afford anything more than a rented room but it pays £40k a year, yay I'm a success) or dwindling out the rest of their days in a call centre or worse. These are the people who will be the first to be pushed out of HE if the impending grad tax funding fiasco hits.

Good thing? In my view, investing in a more educated populace saves us money in all sorts of other ways...

Woo there on the solicitor's earning.

The market is flooded with lawyers.

I would guess 50% of law graduates never come to practise law.

Of those that do, the odds of mainlining a career is very poor.

The UK legal market has been in a state of carnage for a good 5 years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All this means is the loans will never be paid black.

SO they are being funded by tax payers....yet the chief execs are paying themselves as if it's all private money....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New labour's target of 50% of school leavers going to university was a disaster, resulting in degrees being dumbed down & becoming less valuable just as the process of getting one became more expensive - what could possibly go wrong there? Loads of young people have signed up to do worthless degrees on the basis that they'll be able to get ahead in their careers are just in practice lumbering themselves with huge debts for no practical gain.

New Labour the gift that keeps giving. I didn't like Thatcher but she looks like she had the wisdom of Solomon compared to Blair (a shame about the poll tax and the response to Muslim terrorism).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SO they are being funded by tax payers....yet the chief execs are paying themselves as if it's all private money....

Vice chancellors.

The basis of HE funding is itll be funded by future tax revenue.

Thats looking a long way from the truth.

The EduBubble needs popping and scaling back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New Labour the gift that keeps giving. I didn't like Thatcher but she looks like she had the wisdom of Solomon compared to Blair (a shame about the poll tax and the response to Muslim terrorism).

Precisely, the idea of expanding higher education was all about forcing students & graduates to become wage slaves - if you're up to your a**e in debt you don't have a vast amount of choice about whether to take a job or not & as a side effect working tends to result in paying taxes.....funny that. As far as I'm concerned Blair & Brown sold a generation down the river.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Precisely, the idea of expanding higher education was all about forcing students & graduates to become wage slaves - if you're up to your a**e in debt you don't have a vast amount of choice about whether to take a job or not & as a side effect working tends to result in paying taxes.....funny that. As far as I'm concerned Blair & Brown sold a generation down the river.

No.

It was more about keeping a core Labour voting lump, teachers/lecturers, in ungainful employment.

Ditto the education til 18.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All this means is the loans will never be paid black.

Which was the whole point. I see the student loan system as essentially printing money and putting it into the system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Which was the whole point. I see the student loan system as essentially printing money and putting it into the system.

And using it for some public sector troughers to pay themselves a fortune.

#Criminal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New labour's target of 50% of school leavers going to university was a disaster, resulting in degrees being dumbed down & becoming less valuable just as the process of getting one became more expensive - what could possibly go wrong there? Loads of young people have signed up to do worthless degrees on the basis that they'll be able to get ahead in their careers are just in practice lumbering themselves with huge debts for no practical gain.

Chindia have more graduates than we have people. We were never going to compete on quantity. Quality should have been the focus but that horse has long bolted.

Of course the real issue was creating new debt cows to milk and securitise, not at all about education.

Graduate tax sounds bad, plus it can't be invested in. Debt on the other hand...

Sub prime mk2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to put a minor positive alternative view on this, most graduate roles start off poorly paid as employers are often paying for some form of training or qualifications for three or four years.

The problem is most graduates never make it into those type of "graduate roles". Being a graduate just isn't that rare anymore, or that valuable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is most graduates never make it into those type of "graduate roles". Being a graduate just isn't that rare anymore, or that valuable.

Plus one

That's the killer. Even in the 90s people were sold the lie about walking into jobs with your golden ticket. Nowadays graduate schemes are very attractive but becoming ever fewer. Plus the ladders enabling progression are being leaned out/desimated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

USA has a mega bubble of this, some speculate the trillions locked in student debt might be a major factor in collapsing the economy. Most degrees are total ********, 50k of debt for no real skills.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Plus one

That's the killer. Even in the 90s people were sold the lie about walking into jobs with your golden ticket. Nowadays graduate schemes are very attractive but becoming ever fewer. Plus the ladders enabling progression are being leaned out/desimated.

This morning I have seen a table which I'm sure was based on this study, but I can't find the damn thing now. Anyway, it showed that 10 years after graduation only those with degrees in medicine and economics had a median salary above £30,000 a year. Every other subject, the median income was less, some considerably so.

And these are historical figures. What is that table going to look like in 2026?

The problem for young people when making a decision about university is that incomes for non-graduates are already even lower.

Edit: found the table http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36028368

Edited by Snugglybear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was funny watching about 10 years or so ago the rationale they used to justify why forcing more people into uni was socially good...their reasoning being 'graduates pay more tax, therefore uni will pay for itself as more higher taxpayers will exist'

No mention on why they pay more tax...like their scarcity makes them worth more. Make everyone a grad and suddenly the premium employers pay for a degree goes right down.

Most people I talk to nowadays simply dont cite higher earning ability as a reason for going. They know its ********. They say its a 'social experience' Frankly, you can get the same experience working part time and house sharing with people your age rather than going to uni. Some people say it 'but broadens your mind and worldview' But having done business/economics, I cant say I noticed that. Maybe its different for some subjects, although with all the safe space nonsense going around, I highly doubt that too. Universities look more and more like concentration camps of unpaid labour where your behaviour is highly monitored and if you have a ***** you are probably seen as a rapist. Its actually beginning to repulse me every time I see new student flats go up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to put a minor positive alternative view on this, most graduate roles start off poorly paid as employers are often paying for some form of training or qualifications for three or four years.

Particularly non-south east areas, people can often head straight out of school in to the trades and be earning £30 - £40k within a couple of years if they're willing to graft. Trouble is, they tend to hit a wall after that, with the only way to expand being to take on investment which the majority of them just aren't able to do, despite the Alan Sugar delusions of the majority of small town tradespeople.

Contrast that with trainee solicitors, surveyors, accountants or even doctors, who may even take till the mid to late 20s or more to break the £30k barrier but, by the time they're 40 or so might be earning £50k upwards with a lot of scope to develop further. They will likely (and usually do) outstrip non-graduates comfortably over the course of a working life.

The problem I guess is the number of graduates who aren't equipped or are just unwilling to take on a professional qualification or a trade after uni. These people will most likely either wind up in a default 'career' in London (can't afford anything more than a rented room but it pays £40k a year, yay I'm a success) or dwindling out the rest of their days in a call centre or worse. These are the people who will be the first to be pushed out of HE if the impending grad tax funding fiasco hits.

Good thing? In my view, investing in a more educated populace saves us money in all sorts of other ways...

The days of surveyors being on big money are long gone.I've a few friends in the game and most are earning less now than ten years ago.Commercial.

As for sols,the number doing law degrees doesn't correlate to the number who get articles or pupillage in any way shape or form.

Legal aid reforms,conveyancing supermarkets,ambulance chasers etc have caned the job for life.

My sol is a case in point.He tried to gift his firm to the younger guys at the practice.None wanted it due to the public liability that's £50,000 per annum for 6 years plus associated running costs.Midlands practice,mix of criminal,property(resi/comm),trust planning etc,all normal high st stuff.In the end,he merged it with a regional partnership just so he could retire and not have to pay his public liability for 6 years(statute of limitations)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This morning I have seen a table which I'm sure was based on this study, but I can't find the damn thing now. Anyway, it showed that 10 years after graduation only those with degrees in medicine and economics had a median salary above £30,000 a year. Every other subject, the median income was less, some considerably so.

And these are historical figures. What is that table going to look like in 2026?

The problem for young people when making a decision about university is that incomes for non-graduates are already even lower.

Edit: found the table http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36028368

Economics??? So there's hope for charlatan degrees.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   100 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.