Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

pl1

Web Site Comment Sections Vote Manipulation

Recommended Posts

Does anybody have any experience with Web sites who have comment sections having their votes manipulated either by organised groups or bot type software? My main complaint is the mailonline where it appears to be pandemic and many commenters cry "green arrow manipulation".

This page for example:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3533041/Warning-UK-Muslim-ghettoes-Nation-nation-developing-says-former-equalities-watchdog.html

If you then go to comments/best rated you can see that, as of writing, the left-wing type comment had 18,000+ upvotes, typically in < 1 hour.

How is this being carried out? I'm guessing some kind of scripting. I did have a look at this technically but can't determine if mailonline use IP tracking i.e. so you cant just clear cookies/refresh the page/up arrow rinse repeat or if it is just cookies so that this would work using something like Javascript.

I am also aware the CIA in the past has infiltrated certain boards and manipulated voting, this is well documented in Wikileaks.

Finally I have tried to complain to mailonline but simply can't find where you would address the complaint to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are supposed to be logged in to vote I think, so they should be able to track who is doing it.

Nottingham Evening Post site seems to have all the nice comments on anything the council does up voted a lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can complain direct to the Editor of the Daily Mail here and then IPSO with unhappy about the response

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/article-1227210/Contact-Us.html

The Mail on Sunday is a member of the Independent Press Standards Organisation (IPSO).
If you wish to report any concerns over accuracy, please email corrections@mailonsunday.co.uk.
To make a formal complaint under IPSO rules please go to www.mailonsunday.co.uk/readerseditor or write to Readers’ Editor, Daily Mail, Northcliffe House, 2 Derry Street, London W8 5TT.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/article-1227210/Contact-Us.html#ixzz45WaF5m9J
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

My experience is that the Editor rarely sends a considered response to these complaints and IPSO looks as toothless as the PCC used to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are supposed to be logged in to vote I think, so they should be able to track who is doing it.

Nottingham Evening Post site seems to have all the nice comments on anything the council does up voted a lot.

The Wail doesn't require you to be logged in. I'd guess that a simple wget run in a loop would do the trick, although I haven't looked. The button press will call a URL and the only protection against multiple votes would be a cookie set in the response, remove that and you can vote again. It's hard to block multiple votes from a single IP address because of NAT being so common.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anybody have any experience with Web sites who have comment sections having their votes manipulated either by organised groups or bot type software? My main complaint is the mailonline where it appears to be pandemic and many commenters cry "green arrow manipulation".

This page for example:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3533041/Warning-UK-Muslim-ghettoes-Nation-nation-developing-says-former-equalities-watchdog.html

If you then go to comments/best rated you can see that, as of writing, the left-wing type comment had 18,000+ upvotes, typically in < 1 hour.

How is this being carried out? I'm guessing some kind of scripting. I did have a look at this technically but can't determine if mailonline use IP tracking i.e. so you cant just clear cookies/refresh the page/up arrow rinse repeat or if it is just cookies so that this would work using something like Javascript.

I am also aware the CIA in the past has infiltrated certain boards and manipulated voting, this is well documented in Wikileaks.

Finally I have tried to complain to mailonline but simply can't find where you would address the complaint to.

I doubt they do any kind of IP blocking other than maybe some rate limiting. A lot of net acccess these days goes via NAT (parte mobile access) that doesn't really work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Mailonline uses a cookie system. If you delete the cookie you can vote again and again every time you delete the cookie. You do not have to be logged in to vote.

There are left of centre websites out there monitoring the comments on the Daily Mail website - I believe the below appeared on the Independent originally:

https://medium.com/@bestofthemail/i-was-upvoted-for-posting-nazi-propaganda-about-migrants-in-the-daily-mail-8996899810b4#.dpasoa3y9

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/what-happens-when-you-comment-on-daily-mail-articles-with-actual-nazi-propaganda--Zy4ccsnBEx

You are not the first person to question the voting - this article is from 2013:

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1797249

You could easily write a script to auomate the voting. I am surprised that it does not happen more often. Open Firefox, right click on either the red or green arrow (One that you have not voted on.) and then hit the Inspect Element. Whilst the Inspector is open click that arrow up, or down depending upon whether you are looking at a green or red arrow, and see what changes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's slightly more complex than that - I just looked - as all the comment stuff is generated on the fly so the inspector doesn't show anything beyond a div. However, a bit of jiggery pokery with Chrome's network debug tab will show you the URL called when you click the arrow. E.g.

From there, as you say, all you need to do is script it up, making sure to ignore any cookies, and you're good to go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's slightly more complex than that - I just looked - as all the comment stuff is generated on the fly so the inspector doesn't show anything beyond a div. However, a bit of jiggery pokery with Chrome's network debug tab will show you the URL called when you click the arrow. E.g.

From there, as you say, all you need to do is script it up, making sure to ignore any cookies, and you're good to go.

I suspect they do catch it - otherwise we would be seeing every vote manipulated by the SJWs. Saying that, every now and then you get some awful politically correct pro islam comment, with several thousand votes as the best comment, on some article about, usually, some horrific atrocity carried out islamists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Might be due to someone posting about it on a special interest forum? For example, if an HPCer posted a pro-HPC comment on an 'HPI forever' article and we all went and upvoted the comment. As you say though the timing makes that seem unlikely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Might be due to someone posting about it on a special interest forum? For example, if an HPCer posted a pro-HPC comment on an 'HPI forever' article and we all went and upvoted the comment. As you say though the timing makes that seem unlikely.

Yeah, but look at the comment.... "daily scaremongering". Is that worth 18688 up votes? :blink:

What about the other posts, made at the same time. Comment above 1 up vote, comment below 2 up votes. :lol:

Manip_zpscqf9itoo.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, but look at the comment.... "daily scaremongering". Is that worth 18688 up votes? :blink:

What about the other posts, made at the same time. Comment above 1 up vote, comment below 2 up votes. :lol:

Manip_zpscqf9itoo.jpg

It's clearly manipulation & it's pretty obvious to me that it's some kind of script that's being used. The big problem I have is that it's been going on for over a year now, the mailonline must be aware of it but do nothing to either delete the comments or improve their voting system so that it's not possible to do. That last bit I don't get.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's clearly manipulation & it's pretty obvious to me that it's some kind of script that's being used. The big problem I have is that it's been going on for over a year now, the mailonline must be aware of it but do nothing to either delete the comments or improve their voting system so that it's not possible to do. That last bit I don't get.

They are more interested in the number of clicks. They want to dominate the internet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to bump this, has anyone else stopped reading the comments on Mail Online because of this problem? Surely the average time on site is going down which I believe is an important metric used by Google.

there's a website tracking it which shows how bad it is - http://www.fakegreenarrows.com. Does seem extremely odd the largest news website in the western world can't get a grip on something so basic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't reduced my reading of it or looking at the comments but it is so obvious when they have been hacked that you think they would do something about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to bump this, has anyone else stopped reading the comments on Mail Online because of this problem? Surely the average time on site is going down which I believe is an important metric used by Google.

there's a website tracking it which shows how bad it is - http://www.fakegreenarrows.com. Does seem extremely odd the largest news website in the western world can't get a grip on something so basic.

I read the comments section a lot less - it's dominated by SJW B/S upvoted to the top by bots, and therefore much less interesting. I guess this is mission accomplished as far as they're concerned, as their objective seems to censorship and drowning out alternative opinions, dressed up as 'no platforming for fascists' and similar soviet style cobblers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read the comments section a lot less - it's dominated by SJW B/S upvoted to the top by bots, and therefore much less interesting. I guess this is mission accomplished as far as they're concerned, as their objective seems to censorship and drowning out alternative opinions, dressed up as 'no platforming for fascists' and similar soviet style cobblers.

Indeed. I am beginning to wonder if it's coming from the inside. it just seems so odd that they don't stamp it out. it'd be incredibly easy from a technical viewpoint.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am often awake overnight and often, from around past midnight till about 8AM, it is almost impossible to get any comments uploaded to the DM site. I assume this iis because their web staff are not working.

IIt is therefore interesting that you can suddenly have a top-rated SJW comment appear with many thousands of green votes. Clearly something or someone is fixing this to happen.

I was up a few days ago and there was some article - think it was about immigration or the bombings in NY - and there were very few comments on the article and low green or red arrow counts. Sometime between 7 and 8 suddenly a bunch of SJW comments appeared as the top 3 or 4 comments and one of them had something like 7,000 plus green arrows. Clearly manipulation IMPO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is clearly manipulation.

I have seen a few articles where teh top rated comments 3 - 10 were all in support of a prticualr view and the diametrically opposed SJW view had teh top two commenst and a stupid number of green arrows. They're clealry not from people who actually read the DM and presumably not from individuals at all. They shoudl just be deleting any that show obvious hacking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How much extra influence does a heavily upvoted comment under an article acheive anyway? Because this is the purpose of the manipulation, isn't it?

i can't imagine there are many people who would re-align their opinions to those of an anonymous commentator's 3 lines of ramblings (either SJW nonsense or not) simply because they have the backing of "18,000" other anonymous commentators?

In any case, does anyone even order comments by best rated?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How much extra influence does a heavily upvoted comment under an article acheive anyway? Because this is the purpose of the manipulation, isn't it?

i can't imagine there are many people who would re-align their opinions to those of an anonymous commentator's 3 lines of ramblings (either SJW nonsense or not) simply because they have the backing of "18,000" other anonymous commentators?

In any case, does anyone even order comments by best rated?

Yes where there are hundreds of comments. What's the altenrative - read every single one?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How much extra influence does a heavily upvoted comment under an article acheive anyway? Because this is the purpose of the manipulation, isn't it?

i can't imagine there are many people who would re-align their opinions to those of an anonymous commentator's 3 lines of ramblings (either SJW nonsense or not) simply because they have the backing of "18,000" other anonymous commentators?

In any case, does anyone even order comments by best rated?

The SJWs clearly thought that it would influence the BREXIT vote. It did not. Nor did the disgusting bias of the BBC and name calling of people who expressed anything but the pro-REMAIN BBC line.

They clearly think that they can do the same thing now with both Immigration and with the US election.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes where there are hundreds of comments. What's the altenrative - read every single one?

Personally, I just keep to 'newest first' and read enough to get a general idea of opinion as it stands now ( I'd imagine it can change over time as/when new information is out?) Not really interested in who has the 'best' comment, which I'd imagine gets to be 'best' partly because it was posted early and has had more time to accrue ticks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The SJWs clearly thought that it would influence the BREXIT vote. It did not. Nor did the disgusting bias of the BBC and name calling of people who expressed anything but the pro-REMAIN BBC line.

They clearly think that they can do the same thing now with both Immigration and with the US election.

Hopefully they'll give up trying after a few more failures.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Next General Election   92 members have voted

    1. 1. When do you predict the next general election will be held?


      • 2019
      • 2020
      • 2021
      • 2022

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.