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HOLA441

Throughout most of recorded history, the role of men was to protect their women, the tribe/collective/property etc etc and to hunt/kill/provide stuff to ensure the best life for their offspring.

Hunting, killing, providing and sex are basically what men are built to do.

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HOLA442

We are too selfish in the west, we are taught that the individual is more important than the group. This can make us feel very lonely though.

The individual is the most important thing there is, since that's what everyone is. If there's an importance to a group it only makes sense if it exists to benefit the individuals making up that group. Too much individual dominance / selfishness is a problem because it can negatively effect groups, but that's just a convenient shorthand for "a number of individuals." Placing importance on groups for their own sake is odd, to put it mildly.

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HOLA443

The individual is the most important thing there is, since that's what everyone is. If there's an importance to a group it only makes sense if it exists to benefit the individuals making up that group. Too much individual dominance / selfishness is a problem because it can negatively effect groups, but that's just a convenient shorthand for "a number of individuals." Placing importance on groups for their own sake is odd, to put it mildly.

Solitary confinement is a serious punishment in prison. Being isolated is worse than being forced to live with the dregs of society. We are social animals obsessed with our position within our group(s). Isolation from our most natural groupings of close friends and wider family, by targeted policies to reduce reliance and refocus all considerations to the individual or national scale are probably largely responsible for the loneliness and dissatisfaction of our time.
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HOLA444
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HOLA445

Solitary confinement is a serious punishment in prison. Being isolated is worse than being forced to live with the dregs of society. We are social animals obsessed with our position within our group(s). Isolation from our most natural groupings of close friends and wider family, by targeted policies to reduce reliance and refocus all considerations to the individual or national scale are probably largely responsible for the loneliness and dissatisfaction of our time.

Under those cirucmstances the group still exists to serve the individuals (although things like obsession with a position in a group leave me rolling my eyes at people).

I agree with those things that you label as problems being problems, and they'll only get worse because as a society we seem hell-bent in heading in that direction (it's efficient and good for the economy don'tyaknow). Increasing pace of living and the impersonalisation of just about everything are complete and utter disasters.

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HOLA446

I think it is even more basic than that. The brain is a muscle they say that can be developed with use. A very significant part of its health and well-being is stimulation. Language and its use is an extremely important part of that process. If you don't communicate, I believe it can actually cause your brain to wither and create mental health problems. It is probably a mental workout we all take too much for granted. Better to sit and chat over a cup of tea than complete a puzzle.

But yes, we are a social animal too and there all sorts of effects going on.

IMO it's the quality of what people say that counts, not the quantity.

In fact it seems to me that the people babbling on and spending all their time bitching and complaining are the people that are the most unhappy.

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HOLA448

The individual is the most important thing there is, since that's what everyone is. If there's an importance to a group it only makes sense if it exists to benefit the individuals making up that group. Too much individual dominance / selfishness is a problem because it can negatively effect groups, but that's just a convenient shorthand for "a number of individuals." Placing importance on groups for their own sake is odd, to put it mildly.

No man is an island. Of course one can say we are all individuals but a society is made up of them and is or I believe should be a whole or group or even tribe. I`m not saying tribalism or groups are a sort of nirvana...far from it, but it can give us a real sense of identity through, and with others.

We all validate ourselves through others. We need to be strong and healthy physically and mentally as a whole not as disparate parts. Its an appealing theory that the individual is all important but it gives rise to a sort of narcissism in many, and that leads to loneliness in itself because we need approval of others to validate the idea we are more important than others. Total individualism comes at a high cost.

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HOLA449

The loneliest feeling is that of...can't think of the word, but I can sum it up as it came to me reading the flat share thread.

I don't want to live on leaves and beans, or travel to bumfcknowhereistan and live out of a backpack for £1 a day. I've done many kinds of solo travelling. Not entirely sure what people see in it. Maybe they're just trying to convince themselves how great it is.

However I also don't want the flipside lease car and working every hour of the day etc etc etc.

I actually have a pretty good life. The loneliest part is not knowing anyone of a similar outlook. Everyone is polarised to the two extremes above.

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HOLA4410

I travelled by myself for a few months in central America. Loved it. Did what I wanted when I wanted - perfect.

Strange thing happened though - after maybe 6 weeks I actively started conversations with other people I met.

I usually try to avoid that as much as humanely possible.

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HOLA4411

Throughout most of recorded history, the role of men was to protect their women, the tribe/collective/property etc etc and to hunt/kill/provide stuff to ensure the best life for their offspring.

Hunting, killing, providing and sex are basically what men are built to do.

Which in modern times becomes "work to pay tax". Thus enabling the state to "protect their women, the tribe/collective/property etc etc and to hunt/kill/provide stuff to ensure the best life for their offspring."

The transition from provider and protector to slave labourer probably explains why so many men are so glum.

Or, rather, it might if men actually were glum. IME, men are far more fun and positive than women.

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HOLA4412

The loneliest feeling is that of...can't think of the word, but I can sum it up as it came to me reading the flat share thread.

I don't want to live on leaves and beans, or travel to bumfcknowhereistan and live out of a backpack for £1 a day. I've done many kinds of solo travelling. Not entirely sure what people see in it. Maybe they're just trying to convince themselves how great it is.

However I also don't want the flipside lease car and working every hour of the day etc etc etc.

I actually have a pretty good life. The loneliest part is not knowing anyone of a similar outlook. Everyone is polarised to the two extremes above.

This is why I believe we need to feel much more alike with others, and have common goals as others. Being different isn`t all that many crack it up to be. Your point about not knowing anyone of a similar outlook sort of proves my point. If we spend time with someone who thinks and behaves like us (which surely leads to a similar outlook) then that validates us and we feel lees lonely.

I think we change our views on this as we age anyway. When I were a lad (tarar), I really wanted to be like others and it wasn`t till I got to a certain age I realised I was, but just in different ways. Its called society.

The problem we have today I reckon is that we have so many choices and ways of being different that its very confusing and distances us from everyone else, or so it feels.

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HOLA4413

Throughout most of recorded history, the role of men was to protect their women, the tribe/collective/property etc etc and to hunt/kill/provide stuff to ensure the best life for their offspring.

Hunting, killing, providing and sex are basically what men are built to do.

Historically, yes you are right........but as times are evolving the system is pressurising women to compete equally with men....both for the better and for the worse.......after all we are all equal. ;)

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HOLA4415

Be grateful you aren't a male angler fish.

During the 19th century, when scientists began to discover, describe, and classify anglerfish from a particular branch of the anglerfish family tree—the suborder Ceratioidei—that’s what they thought of, too. The problem was that they were only seeing half the picture. The specimens that they were working with were all female, and they had no idea where the males were or what they looked like. Researchers sometimes found some other fish that seemed to be related based on their body structure, but they lacked the fearsome maw and lure typical of ceratioids and were much smaller—sometimes only as long as six or seven millimeters—and got placed into separate taxonomic groups.

It wasn’t until the 1920s—almost a full century after the first ceratioid was entered into the scientific record—that things started to become a little clearer. In 1922, Icelandic biologist Bjarni Saemundsson discovered a female ceratioid with two of these smaller fish attached to her belly by their snouts. He assumed it was a mother and her babies, but was puzzled by the arrangement.

“I can form no idea of how, or when, the larvae, or young, become attached to the mother. I cannot believe that the male fastens the egg to the female,” he wrote. “This remains a puzzle for some future researchers to solve.”

When Saemundsson kicked the problem down the road, it was Charles Tate Regan, working at the British Museum of Natural History in 1924, who picked it up. Regan also found a smaller fish attached to a female ceratioid. When he dissected it, he realized it wasn’t a different species or the female angler’s child. It was her mate.

The “missing” males had been there all along, just unrecognized and misclassified, and Regan and other scientists, like Norwegian zoologist Albert Eide Parr, soon figured out why the male ceratioids looked so different. They don’t need lures or big mouths and teeth because they don’t hunt, and they don’t hunt because they have the females. The ceratioid male, Regan wrote, is “merely an appendage of the female, and entirely dependent on her for nutrition.” In other words, a parasite.

When ceratioid males go looking for love, they follow a species-specific pheromone to a female, who will often aid their search further by flashing her bioluminescent lure. Once the male finds a suitable mate, he bites into her belly and latches on until his body fuses with hers. Their skin joins together, and so do their blood vessels, which allows the male to take all the nutrients he needs from his host/mate’s blood. The two fish essentially become one.

With his body attached to hers like this, the male doesn't have to trouble himself with things like seeing or swimming or eating like a normal fish. The body parts he doesn’t need anymore—eyes, fins, and some internal organs—atrophy, degenerate and wither away, until he’s little more than a lump of flesh hanging from the female, taking food from her and providing sperm whenever she’s ready to spawn.

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HOLA4417

I think it is even more basic than that. The brain is a muscle they say that can be developed with use. A very significant part of its health and well-being is stimulation. Language and its use is an extremely important part of that process. If you don't communicate, I believe it can actually cause your brain to wither and create mental health problems. It is probably a mental workout we all take too much for granted. Better to sit and chat over a cup of tea than complete a puzzle.

But yes, we are a social animal too and there all sorts of effects going on.

Yes, there is a lot to this. Loneliness causes lack of socialisation and hence a lack of communication. It cna rapidly become a self-fulfilling downward spiral of depression.

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HOLA4418
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HOLA4419
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HOLA4420

Loneliness or 'lonerness' with occasional realisation that one is lonely?

Look at the rates of mental illness among men. Schizo type disorders tend to occur more among men and a major component of that is social isolation. I'm not saying there's loads of men out there with severe mental illness, rhe rates are low among the general population, just that I think men have a bigger propensity toward that kind of thinking than women.

You also see this with autism too, men feature more than women and again you don't have to be severely autistic to have autistic traits. Maybe I shouldn't be trying to link the two in a decisive way, just women don't tend to hide their emotions as much as men and that can lead to crisis and breakdown because all that shit can build up until it's utterly overwhelming.

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HOLA4421

If you are feeling lonely, you should join a club for people with similar interests.

Unfortunatlely I don't have similar interests, so it's lucky I don't feel lonely.

Yes, Mr Gardener, the local church would have been the social centre of your village once. It's only empty because they can see Mr Council Dweller coming, and they all hide. :o

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HOLA4422

Sounds like some of you need to get wise and get to Church.

Amen.

I find too many people who junked religion as teenagers because it wasn't cool, and then feel unable to go back to it until (in some cases) they get married and have kids.

But they have nothing with which to replace it and that leaves a void.

If you're as clever as Richard Dawkins then sheer rationalism can fill that void but most people need the spiritual consolation of teligion yet refuse to admit it.

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HOLA4424

Sounds like some of you need to get wise and get to Church.

Why not slip-on over to "The Triple Rock" and catch the Reverend Cleofus...? ;)

On second thoughts, perhaps a local 'Fight Club" could help rescue these lost souls...

XYY

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HOLA4425

Why not slip-on over to "The Triple Rock" and catch the Reverend Cleofus...? ;)

On second thoughts, perhaps a local 'Fight Club" could help rescue these lost souls...

XYY

?

Somebody spotted the quote from The Blues Brothers ?

Seriously though, what Frank said - spot on.

Too many people trash religion with an almost religious zeal ?.

I'm a Roman Catholic and yes I strayed from regular attendance at Church from my teens until my mid-thirties. It was having children that brought me back full-time. Realising that if I didn't introduce them to the Church then I would be depriving them of what could be an important part of their spiritual development. As they grow they will question more and perhaps reject it but that will be their decision. By then they will know what its about and whether to continue, leave or whatever.

Being part of the Catholic Church (or any Church) for that matter brings many benefits quite apart from the purely spiritual dimension. For example, prayer and ritual are very contemplative and meditational. Taking time to quiet the mind, away from the distractions of the modern, noisy world, and listen to God can be a wonderful experience. Sharing this experience with others is very enriching.

Through the Church I have made many friendships and acquaintances with people from so many walks of life. We have many recent immigrants, Poles, Slovaks, Phillipinos, Nigerians, Ghanaians and other more established immigrants - Irish, Italians, Polish.

I've had the opportunity to contribute to our Catholic Community, running Children's Liturgy, Holy Communion programmes for example. Getting involved with our local Catholic school - becoming a Governor there. Joining in with social events, even networking and picking up business through fellow parishioners, sharing resources and skills, making regular charitable donations and generally thinking more of others and what I can give to the community and not what I can get from it. Though strangely enough I've found the more I give, the more I seem to receive in return (not talking monetary terms though that has been true also).

My faith has brought healing to me in troubled times and given me more opportunities to contribute to society than I would ever had had without it.

It really is a pity that so many throw the baby out with the bathwater when they reject religion outright as being for the weak-minded and gullible. Sadly they don't seem to be able to fill the void left behind with anything meaningful and enriching for themselves or society.

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