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cashinmattress

Renewable Energy. Too Expensive? Or A Complete Farce And Scam?

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Interesting reading and stark truths about energy costs.

http://euanmearns.com/estimating-life-time-costs-for-renewable-energy-in-europe/#more-13150

Electricity generation by using gas-fired installations is significantly cheaper than Renewables in terms of both installation capital cost and Operation and Maintenance costs, even when accounting for the cost of fuel.

The € 1.1 trillion capital costs already spent on Renewables in Europe would have been sufficient to re-equip the entire ~1,000 Gigawatt European electricity generating fleet with Gas-fired power stations producing power effectively at ~90% capacity.

The European Renewable fleet with a nominal nameplate output of ~ 212 Gigawatts only contributes ~ 38 Gigawatts to the European Grid, a capacity percentage at about 18%.

CO2 emissions from Germany are now increasing, so the the vast investment in Renewable technologies to control man-made CO2 emissions is manifestly failing, most obviously in Germany.

This shows that for the 60 year costs involved supporting Renewable Energy, that Onshore wind power is about 10 times more costly overall for the power it produces, whereas both Offshore wind power and Solar PV are both almost 40 times less effective overall.

At the same time all other non-European nations are continuing to emit very large amounts of CO2 such that now Europe as a whole only accounts for ~10% of worldwide CO2 emissions with:

  • Germany ~2.1%
  • UK ~1.3%
  • France ~0.9%

Yet we are led to believe that Europeans (Brits) are supposed to levy large 'green' taxes to combat 'climate change'.

Yeah, the great climate change swindle thank to the Church of Al Gore.

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Guest eight

I think renewable only seems uneconomic because for apparently finite and dwindling resources, gas, oil etc. sure are cheap.

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I am sure the Saudi's turning the taps on for political reasons has skewed the current costs of energy obtained from fossil fuels.

But in the UK we opt for highly taxed electricity, and highly taxed energy. So production (e.g. steel) moves abroad to cheaper regimes where coal is king. So the energy consumption is moved away from nations that promote renewables. The consumption of fossil fuels moves elsewhere.

Foot - Aim - Fire.

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I am sure the Saudi's turning the taps on for political reasons has skewed the current costs of energy obtained from fossil fuels.

But in the UK we opt for highly taxed electricity, and highly taxed energy. So production (e.g. steel) moves abroad to cheaper regimes where coal is king. So the energy consumption is moved away from nations that promote renewables. The consumption of fossil fuels moves elsewhere.

Foot - Aim - Fire.

Brits have to stop competing with each other.

Communities and councils could then build or broker their own power deals, using whatever technology they wanted and whatever fuels they wanted, from whatever sources they wanted.

Ergo, the grid is outdated, inefficient, and unfortunately monopolised.

Heck, you could provide heat and power per housing schemes, borrowing from the Scandi's models.

Instead, we're all a shower of cvnts, each with their own little inefficient boilers and heaters.

For now, we are at the mercy of foreign owned private enterprise with a rather weak parliamentary oversight.

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Brits have to stop competing with each other.

Communities and councils could then build or broker their own power deals, using whatever technology they wanted and whatever fuels they wanted, from whatever sources they wanted.

Ergo, the grid is outdated, inefficient, and unfortunately monopolised.

Heck, you could provide heat and power per housing schemes, borrowing from the Scandi's models.

Instead, we're all a shower of cvnts, each with their own little inefficient boilers and heaters.

For now, we are at the mercy of foreign owned private enterprise with a rather weak parliamentary oversight.

Ah yes, abolish competition and hand over running of energy businesses to the state.

I am sure that will invigorate the industry.

<_<

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It may be now, but I think we will need it on some years time. What I object to are the middle-man schemes, where you rent your roof space to a "solar company" for twenty five years, in a contract that will be difficult to get out of. You will have to pay to get out of that when you sell up, and the purchaser doesn't want it. :blink:

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I think renewable only seems uneconomic because for apparently finite and dwindling resources, gas, oil etc. sure are cheap.

Incredibly cheap.

When the price of these fuels eventually does start rising then renewables will make more economic sense.

I think PV solar panels just about work financially now without any subsidy if you are at home a lot during the day.

Those hot water tanks were pretty much standard last time I was in Turkey, one tank for hot and one for warm. I guess they wouldn't work here for eight months of the year as I have yet to see one on a British roof.

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It may be now, but I think we will need it on some years time. What I object to are the middle-man schemes, where you rent your roof space to a "solar company" for twenty five years, in a contract that will be difficult to get out of. You will have to pay to get out of that when you sell up, and the purchaser doesn't want it. :blink:

And banks won't give you a mortgage on it. A house a few doors down (know them to say hi to) has panels on but I didn't know if they bought them or they were rent a roof. It went on the market last month and they had lots of interest and several viewings week one (I know somebody who knows the estate agent) and it rapidly went SSTC and the sign came down.

A couple of weeks later the sign went up again, so I looked at it in the internet. Whilst the panels were clearly visible on the photos that weren't listed in the text. Ergo rent a roof and good luck selling that one.

I await the campaign to get the government to change the law as more and more people realise that they have made their home unmortgageable and so pretty much unsellable.

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And banks won't give you a mortgage on it. A house a few doors down (know them to say hi to) has panels on but I didn't know if they bought them or they were rent a roof. It went on the market last month and they had lots of interest and several viewings week one (I know somebody who knows the estate agent) and it rapidly went SSTC and the sign came down.

A couple of weeks later the sign went up again, so I looked at it in the internet. Whilst the panels were clearly visible on the photos that weren't listed in the text. Ergo rent a roof and good luck selling that one.

I await the campaign to get the government to change the law as more and more people realise that they have made their home unmortgageable and so pretty much unsellable.

Is it the contract, or the panels, that make the home unsaleable/ unmortgagable? Presumably, the contract?

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Frank. I think I made a comment about these "schemes" a while back. I would would be quite happy to have my own solar cells, all paid for by me maybe, with the help of a Gov loan, if they did one. Then I get all the feed in tarriff, and the resposibility for them is mine alone, and they go with the house, if you want them with it. No problem! :rolleyes::o

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Is it the contract, or the panels, that make the home unsaleable/ unmortgagable? Presumably, the contract?

I think you sign up for 25 years of "Mr Solar" getting your feed in! Not a good deal. You would have to buy your way out of the contract. I am no lawyer, so I don't know whther many people have been stung by this. :blink:

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Is it the contract, or the panels, that make the home unsaleable/ unmortgagable? Presumably, the contract?

The contract and charge upon the property, the panels in isolation are a plus as it's free electricity even if you don't get the FiT.

Often these charges aren't registered with the land registry and the existing mortgage company was not informed.

The other case I know was somebody trying to buy somewhere with rent a roof and the above problems, gave up after several months as nothing that they or the seller could come up with would satisfy the buyer's solicitor sufficient for them to sign off on their OK for mortgage checklist.

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Frank. I think I made a comment about these "schemes" a while back. I would would be quite happy to have my own solar cells, all paid for by me maybe, with the help of a Gov loan, if they did one. Then I get all the feed in tarriff, and the resposibility for them is mine alone, and they go with the house, if you want them with it. No problem! :rolleyes::o

Go get them, it's about £6k for the biggest allowable domestic system (4kW, 16 panels) which is half what it was five years ago. FiT rates fell substantially in January but it still probably makes sense if you have the cash, but not if you need to take out a loan, do the sums.

(By "allowable" I mean eligible for the higher domestic rate. If Chateau Pin can take a thousand panels you can put them on but it's then FiT at the lower commercial rats).

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Castle Pin is nowhere as big as that, and I wouldn't have stuff on the roof. I've got a long garden with a big fence where nobody could see the things. I think I could put them up on frames, and not annoy anyone. Could be an idea?

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Castle Pin is nowhere as big as that, and I wouldn't have stuff on the roof. I've got a long garden with a big fence where nobody could see the things. I think I could put them up on frames, and not annoy anyone. Could be an idea?

They are every badly affected by any kind of shading (it has a disproportionate effect, for reason I have forgotten) which is why they're usually put on the roof. If you have a big lawn and put them in the middle of it that should be ok.

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They are every badly affected by any kind of shading (it has a disproportionate effect, for reason I have forgotten) which is why they're usually put on the roof. If you have a big lawn and put them in the middle of it that should be ok.

You have to get panels with the diodes in them so the shaded part does not cut down from the current from the parts in light. That helps. Not sure I have much of a "lawn". It's just a space.

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Castle Pin is nowhere as big as that, and I wouldn't have stuff on the roof. I've got a long garden with a big fence where nobody could see the things. I think I could put them up on frames, and not annoy anyone. Could be an idea?

That's what Kevin McCloud from Grand Designs did (put them on frames) so it must be a good idea.

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That's what Kevin McCloud from Grand Designs did (put them on frames) so it must be a good idea.

I don't know who Kevin is, but I am thinking more of easy maintenance. Climbing on roofs putting up an antenna, led to a mate of mine sliding down, and damaging his ******** on the chimney.

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Guest eight

I don't know who Kevin is, but I am thinking more of easy maintenance. Climbing on roofs putting up an antenna, led to a mate of mine sliding down, and damaging his ******** on the chimney.

Flashing?

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Severn barrage would be the first to build

Almost certainly a non-starter. Even the most optimistic cost estimates put it at more than 2x the cost per MWh of offshore wind, and that's assuming a 120 year life time.

A similar project for the Mersey estuary has been estimated at 4x the cost of a Severn barrage - i.e. £1200/MWh.

There may be scope for tidal lagoons which have the advantage of being much simpler to build and easier to build at small scales, with lesser environmental impacts. The need for mitigation of effects on the estuary environment is devastating to tidal barrage projects.

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