Bbc News - Why Is There A Shortage Of Teachers - Take A Guess At The Main Reason Cited

[Principia]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35895321

Watch at least the first 50 seconds. The article gives a specific example of a school in Oxford. Head teacher is asked why she she got zero responses to adverts for five teachers. First answer - "House prices are too high".

I wonder how many other recruitment problems (not necessarily teachers), have exactly the same reason? It seems to me that there are many other societal problems that exist, for which the main reason is probably "house prices are too high".

[houses-do-my-head-in]

my reasons for not applying for teaching jobs.

1. shit school

2. stress due to point 1 above

3. workload due to school being a grade 2 despite the fact that it really isn't. more box ticking, more lesson obs gestapo that are in SMT because they are useless teachers.

4. commute

5. turn down job after interview due to a head on £80k a year having the cheek to offer me M3 payband.

the paybands are ludicrous.

a paltry 23k or whatever paltry wage you start on. rising to 36k which I am not exactly grateful for tbh.

I worked 6 days a week in a management role (successful) but jacked due to wanting a life. teaching makes that look like a part time jolly. now I have 3 jobs. teach 3 days a week, locksmith, sales, help my mate as a builder. teaching just 20 lessons a week is a sure fire way to an early death

[houses-do-my-head-in]

Rather than back a useless militant union I actually like the fact teachers are voting with their feet. freedom of choice rather than group force.

When moronic parents who barely do the token gesture of 16 hours a week in tesco to kick in the tax credits have the cheek to whine about teachers getting holiday, you don't need to respond. it's freedom of choice in action.

either help us or find someone whos better.....I can make alot more money doing 2 lock changes a day than I do from teaching little jonny.

now it seems it's a recruitment AND retention problem.

what is needed.

pay more,

more power to exclude

teach less (3 lessons a day)

more one to one time for quality feedback with students where you actually have a conversation with them....wow what a radical idea. the best system I stumbled upon was marking work with the student sat at the side of you. you talk them through your though process as you read it. based on that conversation they then think of how they could improve and set targets and explain to you how they will do those next time. 5 minutes per kid......is that impossible to organise? well yes it is actually when you have 34 in a class.lol.

scrap pensions

fewer holidays

get rid of levelling completely. teachers fudge them anyway to keep the gestapo away. I actually laugh when parents say that jonny is doing well as he is in year 6 and is a level 5.....so when jonny comes to me in year 7 why can't he string a sentence together, doesn't start sentences with a capital letter and has the attention span of a fly?

reduce workload by creating a national bank of lessons for different abilities that are optional of teachers want to use them, that are designed by the right people. this avoids militant unions opposing virtually anything. the planning is ridiculous if you are actually bothered about the quality of lessons you teach.

my grammar is appaling cuz it's the holidays bruv

Edited March 28, 2016 by houses-do-my-head-in

[pl1]

my reasons for not applying for teaching jobs.

1. shit school

2. stress due to point 1 above

3. workload due to school being a grade 2 despite the fact that it really isn't. more box ticking, more lesson obs gestapo that are in SMT because they are useless teachers.

4. commute

5. turn down job after interview due to a head on £80k a year having the cheek to offer me M3 payband.

the paybands are ludicrous.

a paltry 23k or whatever paltry wage you start on. rising to 36k which I am not exactly grateful for tbh.

I worked 6 days a week in a management role (successful) but jacked due to wanting a life. teaching makes that look like a part time jolly. now I have 3 jobs. teach 3 days a week, locksmith, sales, help my mate as a builder. teaching just 20 lessons a week is a sure fire way to an early death

Sounds like you're fairly flexible. Ever consider doing Ubering? Might give you even more flexibility.

[houses-do-my-head-in]

now googling "ubering"----------------------------->

I have always been flexible and have always found my own way to be good at whatever I do....but I have to say...teaching is by far the most demanding job I have ever had. In a run of the mill school it is a death sentence. It took me less than a month to pick most locks, strip, replace and solve on the job problems....it took me 18 months in the classroom before I would describe myself as good, and another 2 years before I would describe myself as an awesome teacher. It is such a difficult and tiring job. Seriously, in a run of the mill school teaching 20 lessons a week I would only do it for £80k a year. and then I wouldn't last longer than 10 years max. holidays mean nothing. I am not grateful for them whatsoever. god help the poor souls in inner city shit holes.

I am not biased, I speak the truth.

[houses-do-my-head-in]

Some more suggestions:

1. Unable to enforce discipline, leading to stress.

2. High proportion of female teachers who drop out or go part time after having kids (similar issue with doctors).

3. Hassle from know it all parents, more stress.

4. Paedo hysteria.

maternity/paternity cover is an absolute joke. so many are off. cover teachers, supply left right and centre due to it... a real problem.

A parent once laughed when I rang home about Jonnys behaviour... my reply. " well that says it all"....

mum" what did you mean by that"?

me " you figure it out"

mum " I will complain"

me "no problem, do you want me to put you through to the head?"

then fact that society is so fkd means that teachers need lots more support, backing, power in school as parents are clearly inept... I mean they blame obesity on Mcdonalds adverts FFS, rather than accept that they are useless and should actually use the cooker and buy cabbages.

[winkie]

You could become a private teacher doing it your own way working after 3.30pm.....teachers working from home if they have one.....upskilling all that school teachers do not have time to do.

[The Knimbies who say No]

Their numbers are thinned as some have taken their public service ethos to the next level and have become BTLers?

[porca misèria]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35895321

Watch at least the first 50 seconds. The article gives a specific example of a school in Oxford. Head teacher is asked why she she got zero responses to adverts for five teachers. First answer - "House prices are too high".

I wonder how many other recruitment problems (not necessarily teachers), have exactly the same reason? It seems to me that there are many other societal problems that exist, for which the main reason is probably "house prices are too high".

Of course it's not just teachers. See for example this little rant.

On the other hand, there must be teachers living in Oxford and other expensive places. Not least, those who are there because a partner has a job that's specifically there. House prices probably do make the difference between there being more jobs than applicants vs more applicants than jobs (as here), but they're not the whole story.

It seems from elsewhere in this thread they do still have severely sub-normal teachers. Though I guess one could also infer that from the continued existence of the NUT.

[Principia]

@HDMHI - Yep, I am sure you are right, and that in reality there are a host of reasons for problems recruiting teachers. I just thought it was interesting that, in this example, the first reason quoted for the problem was not "poor class discipline" or "workload" or "government interference", but house prices.

Yeah - maybe teachers salaries aren't exactly stratospheric - but, as has been said many times before on this website, the problem of unaffordability of house prices is not because salaries (in general) are too low, but that house prices are too high. I think this is the first time I've seen it stated so plainly in a report like this.

[dougless]

I have to say that as a teacher who is reaching the end of their tether (and career) I am delighted to see this teacher shortage really starting to bite.

There is so much nonsense talked about 'teaching' by those that have no experience of it. In my experience, teachers are mostly very hard working and put upon. Their Unions are divided and thus weakened which is a great shame IMO. Head teachers are, on the whole, a complete nightmare but are paid significantly more than the average teacher so it has been in their interest to drive through unacceptable working practices which have further weakened the profession.

You could, broadly, divide the profession into three demographic groups and it is the middle band I feel most sorry for.

• The oldest teachers like me can see a light at then end of the tunnel and may well get out alive even if it means taking a reduced pension. This group (the over 50's) are leaving in large numbers because they have had enough.
• The middle ground (teachers in their late 30's to late 40') are often too far into a career which curiously 'deskills ' you. They can find it difficult to visualise anything else. To make matters worse they have had the carrot of an early retirement taken from them just as the occupation gets harder and harder.
• The youngest (mid to late 20's) will either flourish (this is a minority IME) or will leave and find something much easier/lucrative to do. They have youth on their side and have time to change.

Teaching is very stressful and its frightening to see the impact it has on people in their later years. I wish I could recommend it as an occupation but I really wouldn't at the moment. Hopefully in years to come this will change but at the moment the more teachers that leave the better. With luck and market forces it will eventually become better for those left behind.

Edited March 28, 2016 by dougless

[Motor_Blade]

House prices certainly don't help, that said there'd be be problems with both recruitment & retention even if house prices weren't a problem. The disillusionment from the posters who are teachers (or have been) is palpable & sadly most other professions are going the same way; long hours, constant pressure, politics & pointless metrics. Is it any wonder TPTB are so keen for us to mortgage ourselves to the hilt to buy overpriced properties? There's nothing like a massive mortgage debt to keep people chained to jobs they hate.

[stormymonday_2011]

Threads like this make me thank God that I gave up teacher training and took up alligator wrestling instead.

[Frugal Git]

House prices at these levels are slowly going to destroy the ambition of every non executive working individual who doesn't already own one (I'll ignore age). No job is immune.

At least finally it's beginning to be acknowledged as an issue outside of this site. The point of being a cassandra is that it takes a long time for the world to catch up with you.

[nothernsoul]

Im afraid I am unable to quote and unfortunately fit into Dougless's middle band of teachers. I want to leave teaching but as Dougless mentioned find it hard to visualise anything else after so many years. Any advice from teachers or non teachers would be much appreciated on this.

[Si1]

House prices at these levels are slowly going to destroy the ambition of every non executive working individual who doesn't already own one (I'll ignore age). No job is immune.

At least finally it's beginning to be acknowledged as an issue outside of this site. The point of being a cassandra is that it takes a long time for the world to catch up with you.

This. And the fact that your taxes pay for pensioners unearned perks.

[SarahBell]

Why do schools have business managers?

And multiple heads of department?

[RentingForever]

@HDMHI - Yep, I am sure you are right, and that in reality there are a host of reasons for problems recruiting teachers. I just thought it was interesting that, in this example, the first reason quoted for the problem was not "poor class discipline" or "workload" or "government interference", but house prices.

A head teacher isn't going to admit to the other reasons, which in some ways reflect badly on the profession and their own school. Much easier to reach for the external reason - house prices. That's not to say it's not a problem in Oxford, but one among many.

Just on a related note - are the key worker schemes for reduced price housing still running for teachers?

[dances with sheeple]

Im afraid I am unable to quote and unfortunately fit into Dougless's middle band of teachers. I want to leave teaching but as Dougless mentioned find it hard to visualise anything else after so many years. Any advice from teachers or non teachers would be much appreciated on this.

Write novels based on your experiences

Create a fake accident and sue the school/county/borough

Get work privately from rich people with really thick kids so you get lots of overtime

Create a web-site selling advice for new entrant teachers

Create a web site for kids selling pre-filled exam papers in a range of writing styles (or do they do exams in headgear linked to satellites now?)

Try actually visualising something else, properly seeing it as a "mental movie", that might just work.

[dances with sheeple]

A head teacher isn't going to admit to the other reasons, which in some ways reflect badly on the profession and their own school. Much easier to reach for the external reason - house prices. That's not to say it's not a problem in Oxford, but one among many.

Just on a related note - are the key worker schemes for reduced price housing still running for teachers?

More likely a BBC propaganda piece tied in to the pretence that the government give a f*uck until the Brexit danger passes. IMO.

[reddog]

My personal opinion is that the main problem with teaching is the discipline of kids not the salary. If something could be done about the problem kids the job would not be too bad.

Re: the salary it is a tough one, in say London / South East it doesn't seem very high if you want to buy a house. But if you had a married couple teaching in the north east for example, they would probably be in the top 5% of family incomes in the area, even if they were plain old teachers on the lower bands of the scale.

Edited March 28, 2016 by reddog

[Maynardgravy]

A head teacher isn't going to admit to the other reasons, which in some ways reflect badly on the profession and their own school. Much easier to reach for the external reason - house prices. That's not to say it's not a problem in Oxford, but one among many.

Just on a related note - are the key worker schemes for reduced price housing still running for teachers?

Don't know about teachers but I have a story about key worker flats for nhs essential staff:

Anyone remember the hundreds of key worker flats that were opened with gusto by Prescott?

Managed by a private company - can't remember who - but all the nurses etc. they were meant for couldn't afford the rent ~600 quid a month (going back a few years) for a tiny box room and communal kitchen. All the Filipino nurses went and rented shared houses instead as was cheaper and better conditions.

The result? Blocks of empty flats, so did they drop the rents? No, they sublet them to the council and it's now basically a council estate within the hospital grounds.

[Si1]

Don't know about teachers but I have a story about key worker flats for nhs essential staff:

Anyone remember the hundreds of key worker flats that were opened with gusto by Prescott?

Managed by a private company - can't remember who - but all the nurses etc. they were meant for couldn't afford the rent ~600 quid a month (going back a few years) for a tiny box room and communal kitchen. All the Filipino nurses went and rented shared houses instead as was cheaper and better conditions.

The result? Blocks of empty flats, so did they drop the rents? No, they sublet them to the council and it's now basically a council estate within the hospital grounds.

Lovely. Did the NHS managers responsible get performance related bonuses for that?

[Mancghirl]

We're benefiting from this slightly in the far North as we've had decent applicants for some teaching posts, fleeing the HPI in the South East (last 2 appointments were exiting Cambridge and Kent). However, people are quitting in larger numbers and we're finding it impossible to appoint Maths, English and Science at the moment.

Things will only get worse, if the projected numbers coming into the system up to 2022 (800,000 extra pupils) are accurate. Current government have moved from denying shortage to acknowledgment, whilst continuing to slate the profession. Should improvement recruitment numbers no end.

FWIW, I would love to go and take on a role in London, but every time I look at a post, a quick search on Rightmove puts me off.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Mancghirl

[janch]

Im afraid I am unable to quote and unfortunately fit into Dougless's middle band of teachers. I want to leave teaching but as Dougless mentioned find it hard to visualise anything else after so many years. Any advice from teachers or non teachers would be much appreciated on this.

I heard a female stand-up comic (who's name I didn't catch) on the radio the other day saying her training ground was as a science teacher. One day she realised she may as well get paid to be a stand-up comedian as it would be easier and that was what she was doing every day anyway. She said the hecklers she got as a stand-up were child's play to deal with compared to the children when she was a teacher!