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The Tide Is Turning

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Over the last couple of weeks, i have been looking at houses at the cheap end of the market, as my son has suddenly decided he is fed up renting. What is interesting, is that the majority belong to landlords, with sitting tenants. The EA`s are very quick to point out, that the reason they are selling, is the new SDLT rules, and a raft of new legislation coming down the line. They also told me, and i know this for a fact, that the houses we are looking at, would have sold very quickly, 12-18 months ago. Furthermore, they all virtually pleaded with us to put in offers below the asking price. Interesting times ahead, i think.

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I believe the tenants will be moved out prior to completion. What the EA`s are saying, is that there are no longer queues of landlords bidding up prices for every 2 bedder that comes on the market, as was the case not long ago.

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The SDLT surcharge will affect current holdings because it will reduce what buyers are able to pay (probably more than 3% given it will likely be paid out of funds that would have otherwise gone towards the deposit and thus higher overall borrowings) and it will therefore reduce the market value of current holdings. This is problematic for existing BTL landlords - even if they had previously intended to hold for the long term - because the raft of new legislation coming down the line in terms of finance cost deductibility changes and BCBS risk weights will impact on many of them heavily and so the more intelligent amongst them will be inclined to exit before these measures come into force, but now have to do so in the face of diminishing effective demand.

I agree with or in excess of: interesting times ahead, for sure.

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Over the last couple of weeks, i have been looking at houses at the cheap end of the market, as my son has suddenly decided he is fed up renting. What is interesting, is that the majority belong to landlords, with sitting tenants. The EA`s are very quick to point out, that the reason they are selling, is the new SDLT rules, and a raft of new legislation coming down the line. They also told me, and i know this for a fact, that the houses we are looking at, would have sold very quickly, 12-18 months ago. Furthermore, they all virtually pleaded with us to put in offers below the asking price. Interesting times ahead, i think.

The EAs must be stupid or lying, as SDLT does not affect current holdings and if buying to occupy I very much doubt any bank will loan money if there are sitting (assume AST) tenants as they will require vacant possession and the current prices will not be I guess the same or below the price of 12 - 18 months ago. How do you know when an EA is lying ...

Chill, satch. oieo's post clearly alludes to other changes, including Clause 24. Even the National Landlords Association are suggesting a fair amount of landlords selling down in response to Clause 24. Some of the landlord posters at PovertyLater are posting that they are selling down to some degree to reduce leverage. A few anecdotals supporting that supposed trend does not a summer make, but they are to be expected.

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I went to view a flat today that was clearly being rented out to students. Group viewing and there was at least 2 other landlords there to look at it, one with a building measuring up. So they are still in the market where I am.

Disgusting part for me was I realised that the landlord will be evicting the students a few weeks before their exams.

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I've been watching an area of the south coast I knew well when living there. No drop in prices, but I have seen 4 flats come on the market since Feb. In that specific seaside area, it's usually one a year.

I think straws in the wind, but a storm is coming.

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Over the last couple of weeks, i have been looking at houses at the cheap end of the market, as my son has suddenly decided he is fed up renting. What is interesting, is that the majority belong to landlords, with sitting tenants. The EA`s are very quick to point out, that the reason they are selling, is the new SDLT rules, and a raft of new legislation coming down the line. They also told me, and i know this for a fact, that the houses we are looking at, would have sold very quickly, 12-18 months ago. Furthermore, they all virtually pleaded with us to put in offers below the asking price. Interesting times ahead, i think.

Where are you looking to buy?

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Place next door to me went up for rent abut 6 weeks ago. Big top class 4 bed family home, but in a town where average wage is maybe 20k. They want 1800p/m for it - last time it was up for rent was 2012, and they were asking 1300 (a good price imho). Rented to US air force staff, so no actual money changed hands on the part of the occupant. However, that market has more or less gone now.

They've just put on a second agent. I cannot believe anyone could justify paying that sum out of actual local wages - the hugely greedy extra 500 makes all the difference - its the entire take home of someone earning 30k. This void is going to start hurting very soon - I give it a month before that 'To Let' changes to 'For sale'. They would have probably cleared 450k had they done that in feb thanks to the nutcases around here and the buying frenzy - but the times they are a changing as of April...

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Place next door to me went up for rent abut 6 weeks ago. Big top class 4 bed family home, but in a town where average wage is maybe 20k. They want 1800p/m for it - last time it was up for rent was 2012, and they were asking 1300 (a good price imho). Rented to US air force staff, so no actual money changed hands on the part of the occupant. However, that market has more or less gone now.

They've just put on a second agent. I cannot believe anyone could justify paying that sum out of actual local wages - the hugely greedy extra 500 makes all the difference - its the entire take home of someone earning 30k. This void is going to start hurting very soon - I give it a month before that 'To Let' changes to 'For sale'. They would have probably cleared 450k had they done that in feb thanks to the nutcases around here and the buying frenzy - but the times they are a changing as of April...

north yorkshire?

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Place next door to me went up for rent abut 6 weeks ago. Big top class 4 bed family home, but in a town where average wage is maybe 20k. They want 1800p/m for it - last time it was up for rent was 2012, and they were asking 1300 (a good price imho). Rented to US air force staff, so no actual money changed hands on the part of the occupant. However, that market has more or less gone now.

They've just put on a second agent. I cannot believe anyone could justify paying that sum out of actual local wages - the hugely greedy extra 500 makes all the difference - its the entire take home of someone earning 30k. This void is going to start hurting very soon - I give it a month before that 'To Let' changes to 'For sale'. They would have probably cleared 450k had they done that in feb thanks to the nutcases around here and the buying frenzy - but the times they are a changing as of April...

Keep us up to date with the place!

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Plymouth

I was taken some time ago with the seeming mass sell off attempt of portfolios/commercial property in Plymouth, which seems to be part of the same effect you describe. I refer to the waterside and nearby developments such as :

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-57499289.html?premiumA=true : 59 beds

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-for-sale/property-40388475.html?premiumA=true :19 beds

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-for-sale/property-50844193.html?premiumA=true : 13 flats

and

next 2 on right move are 7 and 10 bedrooms respectively. That's a lot of accommodation to be on the market at one time! I don't know the Plymouth market well enough to know whether this is BTL exits or overbuild in this sector in the area. Has the university built its own accommodation (like Bath on a similar thread) recently?

I know of a similar sell off in Huntingdon (feel free to check) and no large educationa demand there so it does seem that there is a significant move afoot.

I note that in none of these areas does there appear to be a consequent effect on prices!

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I look at property for sale at the cheaper end of the market and I too fins a lot of them come with sitting tenants.

A few weeks ago this flat now up far sale was put up for rent (£550 pcm):

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-40810611.html

(£40k more than I would be prepared to pay for it)

It soon disappeared off the radar (thought LL found a new tenant) but I am pleased to see it on the market.

Seems like the person who wanted to rent it out again had a change of heart and thought it best to sell up now as vacant and no onward chain. Sensible decision.

However the estate agent still thinks it will make an 'excellent first time buyer or buy to let investment '

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Plymouth

Plimuff is one place where there's still a helluva lot of property at very modest prices. Whether in-town (e.g. stoke/devonport, mutley, st judes, cattedown), suburban areas like PL5-7 (not to mention Saltash and Torpoint), and not least in inner suburbs from ford/keyham to laira/efford.

There are also premium areas, but they're very much the affluent minority.

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Plymouth

Same as me! yeah the market has stopped moving now. Reductions are creeping in. buy to let seems like it was a massive part of the Plymouth market.

there has been big job losses at the local companies, Kawasaki, princess, BD, Rittal etc etc. As the world economy has been getting very much worse the last 8-9 months.

I think towards the end of next year will be a good time to buy. interest will dry up all this summer. people won't be able to keep previous properties, and the BTL's will pile out over the next 12 months.

other than the rush to avoid the stamp duty there is nothing acting to drive up prices anymore.

The market has been compressed hugely due to BTL's once you hit 160k there is lots on the market, and the crap 80k houses have all been selling for 130k. The BTL's are going to get a nasty shock when they try to sell all together

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Last night a friend, who's a London estate agent at a medium-size agency (has 3-4 branches) said a couple interesting things. Firstly, her agency made not one sale last week-- not one. Their phone has completely stopped ringing in the last few weeks. She's never known it so dead since she joined them seven years ago.

They only have 5 or 6 properties for sale available and only two for rent available -- and they are dross. Again, in seven years she's never known the market to be so utterly empty. What about the two dozen pictures in the window and online of properties? They're works of fiction -- they're properties that were taken off the market or sold/rented months ago. Sometimes they have a 'sold/let' sticker on them and sometimes they do not.

Finally she said that 'half' (I think she was exaggerating a bit) of all properties on 'well-known' aggregator property websites don't actually exist as for sale or rent. She said they're there to make the market appear to be busier and more robust than it really is. When people call to make an appointment to view a falsely-listed property, the agent uses one of several excuses not to set the viewing ("it's just gone!", or "ah actually it might come off the market, I'm just waiting to hear from landlord" etc). I didn't believe her, but to prove my point she asked me to look up 'flats available for rent' from the agency who rented my current flat to me -- I did, and lo and behold there was my actual flat listed as available, not with current photos but with photos from when the previous tenant still lived here before I took the flat EIGHT years ago.

The flat below my current flat has been available to rent for about 12 weeks. Same landlord as I have, same layout and size of flat as mine is. He has dropped the asking price 25% since it first went on the market - he's now asking less than what he's getting for my flat above it, and has had only three viewings, no takers.

The whole market is a bunch of lies. The sooner people realise this, the sooner we get to the bit when the prices fall through the floor.

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Last night a friend, who's a London estate agent at a medium-size agency (has 3-4 branches) said a couple interesting things. Firstly, her agency made not one sale last week-- not one. Their phone has completely stopped ringing in the last few weeks. She's never known it so dead since she joined them seven years ago.

They only have 5 or 6 properties for sale available and only two for rent available -- and they are dross. Again, in seven years she's never known the market to be so utterly empty. What about the two dozen pictures in the window and online of properties? They're works of fiction -- they're properties that were taken off the market or sold/rented months ago. Sometimes they have a 'sold/let' sticker on them and sometimes they do not.

Finally she said that 'half' (I think she was exaggerating a bit) of all properties on 'well-known' aggregator property websites don't actually exist as for sale or rent. She said they're there to make the market appear to be busier and more robust than it really is. When people call to make an appointment to view a falsely-listed property, the agent uses one of several excuses not to set the viewing ("it's just gone!", or "ah actually it might come off the market, I'm just waiting to hear from landlord" etc). I didn't believe her, but to prove my point she asked me to look up 'flats available for rent' from the agency who rented my current flat to me -- I did, and lo and behold there was my actual flat listed as available, not with current photos but with photos from when the previous tenant still lived here before I took the flat EIGHT years ago.

The flat below my current flat has been available to rent for about 12 weeks. Same landlord as I have, same layout and size of flat as mine is. He has dropped the asking price 25% since it first went on the market - he's now asking less than what he's getting for my flat above it, and has had only three viewings, no takers.

The whole market is a bunch of lies. The sooner people realise this, the sooner we get to the bit when the prices fall through the floor.

Do us all a favour and contact trading standards.

The soone e.a.s are held to account for any crimes they commit the better.

I complained on twitter to the council about ea signs on what appears to me to be on public land...the council blocked me !!!

Of course the signs on public land were all at the start of estates, on main roads and invariably were SOLD. if you see a sign in the garden on properties nearby they were invariably unsold.

As you say...its a big con if you ask me.

Its false advertising, I think, so any one guilty of it should be punished

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Last night a friend, who's a London estate agent at a medium-size agency (has 3-4 branches) said a couple interesting things. Firstly, her agency made not one sale last week-- not one. Their phone has completely stopped ringing in the last few weeks. She's never known it so dead since she joined them seven years ago.

They only have 5 or 6 properties for sale available and only two for rent available -- and they are dross. Again, in seven years she's never known the market to be so utterly empty. What about the two dozen pictures in the window and online of properties? They're works of fiction -- they're properties that were taken off the market or sold/rented months ago. Sometimes they have a 'sold/let' sticker on them and sometimes they do not.

Finally she said that 'half' (I think she was exaggerating a bit) of all properties on 'well-known' aggregator property websites don't actually exist as for sale or rent. She said they're there to make the market appear to be busier and more robust than it really is. When people call to make an appointment to view a falsely-listed property, the agent uses one of several excuses not to set the viewing ("it's just gone!", or "ah actually it might come off the market, I'm just waiting to hear from landlord" etc). I didn't believe her, but to prove my point she asked me to look up 'flats available for rent' from the agency who rented my current flat to me -- I did, and lo and behold there was my actual flat listed as available, not with current photos but with photos from when the previous tenant still lived here before I took the flat EIGHT years ago.

The flat below my current flat has been available to rent for about 12 weeks. Same landlord as I have, same layout and size of flat as mine is. He has dropped the asking price 25% since it first went on the market - he's now asking less than what he's getting for my flat above it, and has had only three viewings, no takers.

The whole market is a bunch of lies. The sooner people realise this, the sooner we get to the bit when the prices fall through the floor.

Interesting anecdotal, thanks for posting.

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Finally she said that 'half' (I think she was exaggerating a bit) of all properties on 'well-known' aggregator property websites don't actually exist as for sale or rent. She said they're there to make the market appear to be busier and more robust than it really is. When people call to make an appointment to view a falsely-listed property, the agent uses one of several excuses not to set the viewing ("it's just gone!", or "ah actually it might come off the market, I'm just waiting to hear from landlord" etc).

This happens round here.

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Last night a friend, who's a London estate agent at a medium-size agency (has 3-4 branches) said a couple interesting things. Firstly, her agency made not one sale last week-- not one. Their phone has completely stopped ringing in the last few weeks. She's never known it so dead since she joined them seven years ago.

They only have 5 or 6 properties for sale available and only two for rent available -- and they are dross. Again, in seven years she's never known the market to be so utterly empty. What about the two dozen pictures in the window and online of properties? They're works of fiction -- they're properties that were taken off the market or sold/rented months ago. Sometimes they have a 'sold/let' sticker on them and sometimes they do not.

Finally she said that 'half' (I think she was exaggerating a bit) of all properties on 'well-known' aggregator property websites don't actually exist as for sale or rent. She said they're there to make the market appear to be busier and more robust than it really is. When people call to make an appointment to view a falsely-listed property, the agent uses one of several excuses not to set the viewing ("it's just gone!", or "ah actually it might come off the market, I'm just waiting to hear from landlord" etc). I didn't believe her, but to prove my point she asked me to look up 'flats available for rent' from the agency who rented my current flat to me -- I did, and lo and behold there was my actual flat listed as available, not with current photos but with photos from when the previous tenant still lived here before I took the flat EIGHT years ago.

The flat below my current flat has been available to rent for about 12 weeks. Same landlord as I have, same layout and size of flat as mine is. He has dropped the asking price 25% since it first went on the market - he's now asking less than what he's getting for my flat above it, and has had only three viewings, no takers.

The whole market is a bunch of lies. The sooner people realise this, the sooner we get to the bit when the prices fall through the floor.

Recruitment agents do this with fake jobs. Its to give job seekers and clients the impression that they are legit. They will always say the market is good.

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