TheCountOfNowhere Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Doesn't matter what the investment product is, putting every penny you own into one thing is rarely a good idea as it makes you vulnerable to shocks, in this case tax changes. It may have worked well for the Wilsons and many others over the years but putting every penny into housing with little room for cash flow problems doesn't make it a good investment. Putting evey penny you don't own then levering off the back of it is even more. Stupid. What do these people expect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 If these types had a clue...they would have got out after the 2007 collapse reprieve that many were handed off our backs. Now...they might find it difficult...understatement of the year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Btl are sitting ducks to be shafted. For those with money maybe they'll get to stay in the game and pay the tax. However those on lower incomes who've played the property game face ruin from their great to get rich quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bland Unsight Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 When you reckon she bought them? 17 is pure B+B madness, so 10 years ago ID guess. A bit of googling throws up this testimonial from Shirleyann and Matthew Haig on the Hayes Finance website: Hayes Finance came highly recommended from a friend of ours, and we have been delighted with the service we have gotten from them over the last year. We embarked on a new career as property investors and despite the current climate and market conditions they have worked really hard in obtaining us 8 mortgages for all our buy to let properties over the last year. With a clear understanding of our needs they have ensured the best deal around is secured and that it meets our requirements. We started out knowing very little about the finance side of things but through patience, clear and concise explanations we feel we have learnt a lot from them. We would not hesitate in recommending Hayes Finance as mortgage brokers, and in fact have done so to at least 2 of our friends, who have also used them and are very pleased with the service. People talk about getting a power team together when you want to start a small business and Hayes Finance have been at the centre of everything we have done, we feel without them we wouldn't be where we are today. Thank you Kieran for all of your support, and we look forward to working with you even more this year and in the future. Source A Companies House search shows that Hayes Finance only incorporated in 2004 and their turnover is absolutely tiny until about 2010, hence suggestive evidence that over half the portfolio has been bought within the last five or six years. Anyway, I'd love to chat more, but I must get my power team together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 A bit of googling throws up this testimonial from Shirleyann and Matthew Haig on the Hayes Finance website: Source A Companies House search shows that Hayes Finance only incorporated in 2004 and their turnover is absolutely tiny until about 2010, hence suggestive evidence that over half the portfolio has been bought within the last five or six years. Anyway, I'd love to chat more, but I must get my power team together. they are right though...without the borrowing, they wouldnt have the 17 properties. yet people still insist prices are set by a shortage of property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thombleached Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 The weather's absolutely beautiful today. Had a great cycle with the kids earlier, relaxing with a nice cup of tea and cooking a roast dinner. I thought today couldn't get any better, then I logged on to read this thread. I'm firmly with Venger on this, no sympathy at all. "I thought I was helping people"???? No you didn't. You're a parasite, a naive one yes. But I save all my sympathy for the families who could have bought those houses at a fair market rate and our now having their income (or ours if it's HB) harvested to fund these spivs game. Scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mancghirl Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 The weather's absolutely beautiful today. Had a great cycle with the kids earlier, relaxing with a nice cup of tea and cooking a roast dinner. I thought today couldn't get any better, then I logged on to read this thread. I'm firmly with Venger on this, no sympathy at all. "I thought I was helping people"???? No you didn't. You're a parasite, a naive one yes. But I save all my sympathy for the families who could have bought those houses at a fair market rate and our now having their income (or ours if it's HB) harvested to fund these spivs game. Scum. She thought she was helping people. By soaking the taxpayer for HB. Honestly, people like this won't learn, even if they do lose it all. Too thick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dances with sheeple Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Under the photo reads "The Haigs are racing to buy a home of their own" ..."At 39 the mother-of-two owns 17 buy-to-let properties on the council estate where she grew up, in Knowsley, Liverpool." They rent? Yep, the guy had to move for work or something. To be fair to them they say they might help tenants out with a rent drop if they get in trouble, and only charge up to the HB limit, but is this because of their good nature, or because they have to in order to keep the properties occupied? They seem to have over-stretched, and are being caught in the tax net that was probably not on many BTL`ers radar. BTW, have the Wilsons sold yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahBell Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 What is the business plan for their business? Who lent them the money? Did they ask to see the business plan first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eight Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 What is the business plan for their business? Who lent them the money? Did they ask to see the business plan first? I accidentally got talking to an amateur "property developer" / HMO slumlord on Friday; probably the only bona fide one I've met despite my long time membership of this site. In short - it's all over I think he got quite a surprise how well informed I was about his problems, which basically boiled down to how to avoid being trampled to death in the stampede for the exit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverwhere Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 The pretence that the whole thing was an exercise in charity doesn't read as naivety to me, it reads as calculated (but poorly considered) manipulation born of narcissism, special pleading, and post hoc rationalisation for investment returns that have not lived up to expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 I accidentally got talking to an amateur "property developer" / HMO slumlord on Friday; probably the only bona fide one I've met despite my long time membership of this site. In short - it's all over I think he got quite a surprise how well informed I was about his problems, which basically boiled down to how to avoid being trampled to death in the stampede for the exit. Thing is, Basel3 has not kicked in.When that happens they'll e totally screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mancghirl Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 I accidentally got talking to an amateur "property developer" / HMO slumlord on Friday; probably the only bona fide one I've met despite my long time membership of this site. In short - it's all over I think he got quite a surprise how well informed I was about his problems, which basically boiled down to how to avoid being trampled to death in the stampede for the exit. Sad to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bland Unsight Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 She thought she was helping people. By soaking the taxpayer for HB. Honestly, people like this won't learn, even if they do lose it all. Too thick. You can't be too thick for the BTL game. The thicker you are, the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bland Unsight Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 I thought today couldn't get any better, then I logged on to read this thread. And as spyguy suggests, we're barely getting started. The Summer Budget mortgage interest relief changes don't even start tapering in till April 2017. At present Basel changes are sufficiently distant and uncertain that lenders are actually lowering BTL mortgage rates to attract more business, (shades of the famous Chuck Prince remark, "As long as the music is playing, you’ve got to get up and dance."). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryrot Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 (edited) Another header into the cesspitt that is UK BTL. I noted this sentence: "All the properties are mortgaged at around 70pc of their price and they are jointly owned by her and her husband Matt, 37." Well why dont they sell? Make a 30% profit. OK they'll pay CGT but thats only a portion of the profit and they'll still be up. .... Unless the 70pc LTV is a little optimistic. Anyone on HPC want a portfolio of rented ex-council propertiesin Liverpool? Edited March 20, 2016 by dryrot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mancghirl Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 You can't be too thick for the BTL game. The thicker you are, the better. I know, but I'm still always shocked when over-leveraged idiots haven't done basic maths. It was her pension, I suppose. I've got a pension. I check it regularly and make sure the sums add up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonSays Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 I think he got quite a surprise how well informed I was about his problems, Better informed than most landlords! Im by no means an expert, I have an interest in how the housing crisis might play out as it will affect me personally with my decision to eventually buy, these people should know better than me, but they simply don't. Many claim to do it full time, how can they be so ignorant? The whole BTL mess in recent years has been a moron harvester, now there they all are in the holding pen together, walking into one another, tripping over their own feet, calling one-another 'entrepreneurs'. "To the mincer you go." "The what?". They look baffled for a moment, look at one another, and try to hide behind one-another. Bye bye! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dances with sheeple Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 A bit of googling throws up this testimonial from Shirleyann and Matthew Haig on the Hayes Finance website: Source A Companies House search shows that Hayes Finance only incorporated in 2004 and their turnover is absolutely tiny until about 2010, hence suggestive evidence that over half the portfolio has been bought within the last five or six years. Anyway, I'd love to chat more, but I must get my power team together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dances with sheeple Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Better informed than most landlords! Im by no means an expert, I have an interest in how the housing crisis might play out as it will affect me personally with my decision to eventually buy, these people should know better than me, but they simply don't. Many claim to do it full time, how can they be so ignorant? The whole BTL mess in recent years has been a moron harvester, now there they all are in the holding pen together, walking into one another, tripping over their own feet, calling one-another 'entrepreneurs'. "To the mincer you go." "The what?". They look baffled for a moment, look at one another, and try to hide behind one-another. Bye bye! This is going to be a funny thread I think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amiinsane Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 I hate this 'i'm doing it to help people' crap. If you stockpiled any other commodity to increase scarcity and made people pay a higher price for it you'd be labelled a profiteer. I hate landlords and the more of the greedy feckers that lose their 'pensions' the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dances with sheeple Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 How many "landlords" like this are there in all the cities and towns up and down the land? This is going to be an interesting social experiment as it all unwinds I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mancghirl Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 I hate this 'i'm doing it to help people' crap. If you stockpiled any other commodity to increase scarcity and made people pay a higher price for it you'd be labelled a profiteer. I hate landlords and the more of the greedy feckers that lose their 'pensions' the better. Every time I see these pathetic attempts at claiming landlordism as some sort of social enterprise, my blood pressure rises. No-one was in it to make money? GTF, they knew what they were doing, now they can live with the consequences of the inevitable come down. I hope every single house is bought by some young people doing worthwhile jobs, when they're being auctioned off by the mortgagee in possession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bland Unsight Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 (edited) The whole BTL mess in recent years has been a moron harvester, now there they all are in the holding pen together, walking into one another, tripping over their own feet, calling one-another 'entrepreneurs'. "To the mincer you go." "The what?". They look baffled for a moment, look at one another, and try to hide behind one-another. Bye bye! This is an essential difference between HPC and the BTL fora. The BTL fora are places where you go in order to work out how best to do something that is supposedly a one-way bet. HPC is many different things and different things to different posters, but part of what takes place here is a sustained conversation about what the f**k is going on, and that allows us to entertain the possibility that late entrant BTL is a money pit - a mincer. The BTL gang cannot see that. They are people who know you can't go wrong with property. This is one of the good things about the rash of articles as BTLers awareness of Clause 24 extends beyond the BTL fora and into the mainstream. For the first time since 2008-ish you're getting articles where people are accepting that you can go wrong with property and that maybe what they did was a mistake. Even the benighted Haig can see it, "I’ve ruined my own life by taking a decision which I thought would be good." That should be the real marketing slogan for BTL; "Ruin your finances with decisions you thought would be good" Of course, appearing the the Telegraph is just another bad decision. They should be selling, not spooking potential buyers. Edited March 20, 2016 by Idlewild Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bland Unsight Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 How many "landlords" like this are there in all the cities and towns up and down the land? This is going to be an interesting social experiment as it all unwinds I think. Once you get into the 10+ level, the numbers are pretty small. I'd be astonished if it was much more than 50,000. Property118 looks to be a hugely unrepresentative sample of the BTLer in the wild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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