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The Beeb's Own Ftb, Five Live's Phil Williams

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Did anyone else hear this discussion on Five Live last night? Presented by Phil Williams, the discussion was about affordable housing. Williams himself started by saying "I've just become a first time buyer, it does actually cripple you to get on the ladder".

Some of the other comments made are also classic and leave you wondering, this is why we are were we are, yet no one can bring themselves to use the F-word, that prices need to FALL. Hardly surprising as one of the so-called experts is representing Estate Agents.

Listen out for the "I can't ever imagine a time when Chelteham & Gloucester don't own my house - it's impossible". :lol:

Go to this link and then forward on Real Player to 2hrs 12.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/networks/fi...elive/anita_mon

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Thanks for that. Much better than this mornings 4 minute attempt on the same subject.

What really annoys me is this 'Affordable Housing' label which seems to be a synonym for Cruddy sh!t box.

I don't want 'affordable housing'. I'd like conventional housing (i.e. with solid brick walls) at an affordable price.

I think there is a difference.

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I feel a bit snobbish when it comes to affordable housing or part ownership scheme’s.

But it’s like the government is just trying to add rungs to the bottom of the ladder.

If I’m not prepared to pay today’s prices for tomorrows housing why the hell do they think I will be prepared to pay today’s prices for yesterdays housing.

I don’t want to live in a slum and if that’s all the UK can offer, then thanks but no thanks.

Plane tickets are cheaper than affordable housing and as long as I’m renting I can relocate easily

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I feel a bit snobbish when it comes to affordable housing or part ownership scheme’s.

But it’s like the government is just trying to add rungs to the bottom of the ladder.

If I’m not prepared to pay today’s prices for tomorrows housing why the hell do they think I will be prepared to pay today’s prices for yesterdays housing.

I don’t want to live in a slum and if that’s all the UK can offer, then thanks but no thanks.

Plane tickets are cheaper than affordable housing and as long as I’m renting I can relocate easily

Yes, exactly, but this discussion quickly moves off the subject of renting as an affordable alternative, concentrating on the part buy/part rent sector of the market which is hardly affordable. They do mention Germany and one calling makes the scary suggestion that people there will soon start buying "if the Common Market frees it up to allow the Halifax in to offer 5% down (rather than the 25% deposits that the caller claims Germans have to find now + 10% taxes).

There have been plenty of threads on here about renting being a better option than buying into a bubble. The woman in this discussion (her name escapes me) even said that she thought there was nothing wrong in renting, but then goes on to talk about the nightmare of buying her own property in today's market! She was the one who said "I can't ever imagine a time when Cheltenham & Gloucester don't own my home". This is the mentality that we are up against. As long as there are enough gullible people buying onto the own home is your castle argument, the VI's will play it for all it's worth (which to them is billions).

When you hear people talking about how it is crippling them to buy into this market, if people don't get the message that they should not be buying now, then they never will (or only when it's too late and the debt collectors and repo men come calling).

Just a pity that this 14 minutes was not on at prime time rather than 12.30 at night.

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Yes, exactly, but this discussion quickly moves off the subject of renting as an affordable alternative, concentrating on the part buy/part rent sector of the market which is hardly affordable. They do mention Germany and one calling makes the scary suggestion that people there will soon start buying "if the Common Market frees it up to allow the Halifax in to offer 5% down (rather than the 25% deposits that the caller claims Germans have to find now + 10% taxes).

There have been plenty of threads on here about renting being a better option than buying into a bubble. The woman in this discussion (her name escapes me) even said that she thought there was nothing wrong in renting, but then goes on to talk about the nightmare of buying her own property in today's market! She was the one who said "I can't ever imagine a time when Cheltenham & Gloucester don't own my home". This is the mentality that we are up against. As long as there are enough gullible people buying onto the own home is your castle argument, the VI's will play it for all it's worth (which to them is billions).

When you hear people talking about how it is crippling them to buy into this market, if people don't get the message that they should not be buying now, then they never will (or only when it's too late and the debt collectors and repo men come calling).

Just a pity that this 14 minutes was not on at prime time rather than 12.30 at night.

True, entering now is madness. Unfortunately many of my friends bought this year (I told them to be patient). I’m 23 and in no rush whatsoever, I am more than happy to enjoy the greater disposable income renting allows me whilst I'm still young enough to go out three nights a week. I'm not even looking any more.

Truly in party mode,

for which as well as renting I get a lot of "You need to stop wasting money lectures" off friends who recently bought house (as recent as this month some of them). I can still afford to put a fair whack away each month. As soon as a HP drop becomes something everyone is aware of I will start saving a little more each month and going out a little less. My friends who bought recently have not been in a pub since. :unsure:

Their "great investment" is crippling them. Surely good investments do the opposite of this?? <_<

Currently I rent a nice 3 bedroom house in the middle of town with two friends, and love every minute.

I'm sure when we're all 30, 40 then 50 we will look back and know who took best advantage of their twenties.

Given the choice between sitting in watching the soaps and worrying about the £160,000 you owe the bank & the thought of paying them £1000 pcm for 20 years or going out for a meal with some friends then flirting with girls in a local nightspot three or four times a week (however unsuccessful I might be) I think a couple of years of social excitement is worth the risk of “missing the property ladder forever”.

The current climate (HPC approaching) puts me a young man who others perceive to be wasting thousands of pounds on nothing, in a position where in two or three years of patiently enjoying myself whilst waiting for the market to weaken, I will be able to look forward to mortgage repayments I can easily afford.

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Thanks for that. Much better than this mornings 4 minute attempt on the same subject.

What really annoys me is this 'Affordable Housing' label which seems to be a synonym for Cruddy sh!t box.

I don't want 'affordable housing'. I'd like conventional housing (i.e. with solid brick walls) at an affordable price.

I think there is a difference.

Excellently put woohoo.

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Their "great investment" is crippling them. Surely good investments do the opposite of this??

Robert Kiyosaki (US real estate guru) defines an asset as "something that puts money into your pocket" and a liability as "something that takes money out of your pocket". I think you can work out which one UK housing currently is.

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I think you have it all wrong.

Many people on this forum would laugh at the ability of a 23 Yr old to afford his own dwelling.

They have been renting from thier early twenties, yet prices have moved ever higher all the time. The average age of a FTBer is now a mindboggling 36 - and still moving upwards.

Being frugal would not have helped. Working hard does not help. Saving does not help. A worker may have worked harder and longer and been more mobile and flexible than any of thier age group, yet unless they had bought and taken on debt, thier net worth would be much lower than thier 'plodder' unionised workers in thier age group, protected and increasingly getting housing subsidies targetted at them.

It is a battle that you cannot win however hard you work.

The only answer is to accept it and step down from scarifice, look to take advantage of all the benefits from tax credits to subsidies - think about unionising yourself in your own workplace to stop the decline in your living standards as property continues its climb upwards.

However productive you are, the results of the greater producitvity simply seem to be transferred to holders of real property, as the bank prints more money. Wages have not risen for many many years - hence the wage multiples.

Edited by brainclamp

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I don't want 'affordable housing'. I'd like conventional housing (i.e. with solid brick walls) at an affordable price.

I think there is a difference.

I think this is a really important point that the government is getting very wrong. One historic comparison is what happened after the war. There was a genuine need for housing. The Attlee government built mostly good housing - council estates with decent maisonettes, semi-detached, whatever, with decent room sizes and space outside where possible. But it takes time to build decent housing. The Tories won the election in 1950 (?) largely on the promise of speeding up the housebuilding program. They achieved this by lowering standards all round - lower room sizes, greater density of developments, crap tower blocks etc. The most awful housing of the fifties and sixties resulted, much of which ended up having to be demolished. But we're not learning from this. We're reacting to a short term blip in prices by lowering standards. The house price situation wil change, but shitty housing will last a generation or longer, and people will suffer in it. "Affordable housing" is being used as an excuse for lowering standards and that is a betrayal.

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I think you have it all wrong.

Many people on this forum would laugh at the ability of a 23 Yr old to afford his own dwelling.

They have been renting from thier early twenties, yet prices have moved ever higher all the time. The average age of a FTBer is now a mindboggling 36 - and still moving upwards.

Being frugal would not have helped. Working hard does not help. Saving does not help. A worker may have worked harder and longer and been more mobile and flexible than any of thier age group, yet unless they had bought and taken on debt, thier net worth would be much lower than thier 'plodder' unionised workers in thier age group, protected and increasingly getting housing subsidies targetted at them.

It is a battle that you cannot win however hard you work.

The only answer is to accept it and step down from scarifice, look to take advantage of all the benefits from tax credits to subsidies - think about unionising yourself in your own workplace to stop the decline in your living standards as property continues its climb upwards.

However productive you are, the results of the greater producitvity simply seem to be transferred to holders of real property, as the bank prints more money. Wages have not risen for many many years - hence the wage multiples.

Your description of what happened in the last years is probably correct. Yet I believe that your conclusions are wrong. All you said points to the fact that property is just another bubble. They always imploded in the past (and, by the way, the immigrants that are coming are not making any difference).

So work hard, focus on what you can control and enjoy your life.

The last thing you want is to be the sucker that is left with an overpriced property when the music ends....

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I think you have it all wrong.

Many people on this forum would laugh at the ability of a 23 Yr old to afford his own dwelling.

They have been renting from thier early twenties, yet prices have moved ever higher all the time. The average age of a FTBer is now a mindboggling 36 - and still moving upwards.

Being frugal would not have helped. Working hard does not help. Saving does not help. A worker may have worked harder and longer and been more mobile and flexible than any of thier age group, yet unless they had bought and taken on debt, thier net worth would be much lower than thier 'plodder' unionised workers in thier age group, protected and increasingly getting housing subsidies targetted at them.

It is a battle that you cannot win however hard you work.

The only answer is to accept it and step down from scarifice, look to take advantage of all the benefits from tax credits to subsidies - think about unionising yourself in your own workplace to stop the decline in your living standards as property continues its climb upwards.

However productive you are, the results of the greater producitvity simply seem to be transferred to holders of real property, as the bank prints more money. Wages have not risen for many many years - hence the wage multiples.

I suspect most on this forum would disagree, especially with the view that "property continues to climb upwards". I hope people will take the time to listen to this 14 minutes, it's an eye opener because it tells you everything that is wrong about the situation we find ourselves in. The people in this discussion are in denial if they think they have to get on the property ladder even if it cripples them financially.

The one thing they don't discuss is that prices should fall and as the presenter and 2 others in the discussion have only just bought and it's crippling them, the F-word is off the agenda. They are in denial and have fallen for the propaganda of it all. No one needs to buy into this bubble.

Listen to it and then decide that you will not be one of those financially crippled. It is a battle that can be won.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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