Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
Sign in to follow this  
workingpoor

Pip Wrag & A Potential U-Turn.

Recommended Posts

Tensions are mounting over the proposed changes to PIP which (if passed) will become effective from January 2017.

Are we going to see another defeat in the House of Lords?

http://news.sky.com/story/1661319/bid-to-stop-tory-revolt-over-disability-cuts

Iain Duncan Smith is battling to head off a growing Tory rebellion in a Commons vote on the Budget next week against cuts in benefits to disabled people.

After protests at proposed cuts worth £4.4bn, the Work and Pensions Secretary has written to Conservative MPs stressing that consultation with disability groups will continue.

But less than 24 hours after George Osborne's Budget, Tory rebels are writing to the Chancellor claiming the Government will be defeated if it tries to push the changes through.

Edited by workingpoor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wish I knew where the truth lies. Is the underlying story one of reducing payments to the seriously disabled? Or one of defining who is disabled?

I have a couple of disabilities that reduce my ability to work. One is that my eyesight is too poor to drive a car, which is a requirement for huge numbers of jobs - many in my line of work that don't need it but just insist on it because you sometimes have to travel to meet clients. Should I have been claiming over the years? Would I be losing my benefits now?

By extension, is the system one where (almost) every Tom, Dick and Harry might have a claim of some kind?

Edited by porca misèria

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Always had u turn written all over this. Question is where will they cut instead?

Yes, it's too much of a ****-up with recent events and an army of advisers. Got to be a smokescreen, either for something nestled in the budget or maybe he is going to sigh and say TC's or disabees? Having said that, watching Morgan squirming in defence on QT last night; maybe it was just incompetence?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apparently there has been extensive consultation with Disabled groups and there has been agreement that once these aids are fitted or purchased for the home

(like a handrail or a higher toilet seat in the bathroom for example)

Then there are unlikely to be anymore ongoing costs.

Annecdote: i recently suffered a broken leg and had to by some aids for the home, they were incredibly cheap £12 delivered for a new 100mm higher toilet seat for example.

Also there were alot of charities that provide a myriad of these aids for free or on loan and they will deliver it to your house, i was offered a wheelchair on temporary loan from the Red Cross.

Another point which i think is not being talked about is that lots of those who may lose points for the aids may subsequently fall into the WRAG group,

the work related activity group,

whereas currently they are exempt from working.

I think this is what's at the heart of it.

Edited by workingpoor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, it's too much of a ****-up with recent events and an army of advisers. Got to be a smokescreen, either for something nestled in the budget or maybe he is going to sigh and say TC's or disabees? Having said that, watching Morgan squirming in defence on QT last night; maybe it was just incompetence?

Has CCHQ sewed her eyelids back on yet?

image_update_img.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apparently there has been extensive consultation with Disabled groups and there has been agreement that once these aids are fitted or purchased for the home

(like a handrail or a higher toilet seat in the bathroom for example)

Then there are unlikely to be anymore ongoing costs.

Annecdote: i recently suffered a broken leg and had to by some aids for the home, they were incredibly cheap £12 delivered for a new 100mm higher toilet seat for example.

Also there were alot of charities that provide a myriad of these aids for free or on loan and they will deliver it to your house, i was offered a wheelchair on temporary loan from the Red Cross.

Another point which i think is not being talked about is that lots of those who may lose points for the aids may subsequently fall into the WRAG group,

the work related activity group,

whereas currently they are exempt from working.

I think this is what's at the heart of it.

Yes, people who need adaptations should have them.

How much will it affect motability cars?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wish I knew where the truth lies. Is the underlying story one of reducing payments to the seriously disabled? Or one of defining who is disabled?

Ditto. Are the government really proposing to rob severely disabled people or do they just want to dock people with professed anxiety (not knocking genuine anxiety sufferers) who would rather not visit the people at the job centre and explain why they're not trying to find a job?

The system of assessing people for disability was a good idea but implemented in the usual p*ss-poor fashion by using people unqualified to make the assessment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All the previous talk of The Idiot being a switched on cat of a politician is now showing as complete horse shyte. The 2015 manifesto was a negotiating document, meant to win votes - not power. He / they have pulled a silly face, and I'm pleased the wind has changed direction. I can see a U-turn, and loosing in 2020, as the Economy goes to shyte - a good Friday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wish I knew where the truth lies. Is the underlying story one of reducing payments to the seriously disabled? Or one of defining who is disabled?

I have a couple of disabilities that reduce my ability to work. One is that my eyesight is too poor to drive a car, which is a requirement for huge numbers of jobs - many in my line of work that don't need it but just insist on it because you sometimes have to travel to meet clients. Should I have been claiming over the years? Would I be losing my benefits now?

By extension, is the system one where (almost) every Tom, Dick and Harry might have a claim of some kind?

Sorry to hear about your eyesight and how that stops you from driving

For PIP none of the members of my local group (for people with Neurological disease) were awarded any points for not being able to drive.

The mobility component is based on walking and being able to plan a journey. This is just the walking part.

12. Moving around.

12 a. Can stand and then move more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided. 0 points

12 b. Can stand and then move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided. 4 points

12 c. Can stand and then move unaided more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres. 8 points

12 d. Can stand and then move using an aid or appliance more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres. 10 points

12 e. Can stand and then move more than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided. 12 points

12 f. Cannot, either aided or unaided, –(i) stand; or (ii) move more than 1 metre. 12 points

To be eligible for the mobility component of PIP you need to score:

8-11 points to be awarded the standard rate; or

12 points or more to be awarded the higher rate.

My own impression of PIP (and before that DLA) was that for a seriously disabled person it was a bit like a lottery and an obstacle course.

The lottery part means that some people get through who shouldn't. It's been said on other threads of this forum that people are claiming who shouldn't and the papers have had cases of people who recover from their disability and keep taking the money. The checks don't seem to occur once people have a benefit like this long term but as DLA is changing to PIP that may change.

The obstacle course part means that it is very difficult to claim (physically and mentally hard, long complicated forms, getting medical reports, being forced into deadlines that are impossible, medical examinations miles from your home and in buildings not designed for the disabled, having to appear at tribunals, this all going on for years and years and then repeat)

The richer and less disabled you are paradoxically the easier it seems to me. The more money you have the more you can spend on medical reports, aids and legal help to argue your way through the process. Fighting at a Tribunal level can be very hard as you need to challenge their decisions on points of law. I've done it for others.

I've seen members of my own group denied DLA because at the Tribunal they simply refused to accept any of the medical advice and medical tests.

All through my own young disabled working years I didn't claim DLA although I would have qualified.One of the reasons why was that few young people I knew in my own group were getting DLA without having to provide expensive medical reports and appearing before tribunals. and pay for legal help to challenge some quite arbitrary decisions made. In London the usual avenues for help (CAB, disabled groups, pro-bono groups) were so overloaded that it wasn't available.

I simply wasn't well enough physically to work and to fight this battle at the same time.

Edited by Flopsy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to hear about your eyesight and how that stops you from driving

For PIP none of the members of my local group (for people with Neurological disease) were awarded any points for not being able to drive.

The mobility component is based on walking and being able to plan a journey. This is just the walking part.

12. Moving around.

12 a. Can stand and then move more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided. 0 points

12 b. Can stand and then move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided. 4 points

12 c. Can stand and then move unaided more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres. 8 points

12 d. Can stand and then move using an aid or appliance more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres. 10 points

12 e. Can stand and then move more than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided. 12 points

12 f. Cannot, either aided or unaided, –(i) stand; or (ii) move more than 1 metre. 12 points

To be eligible for the mobility component of PIP you need to score:

8-11 points to be awarded the standard rate; or

12 points or more to be awarded the higher rate.

I don't understand how any of the adults I know have a motability car.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand how any of the adults I know have a motability car.

Neither do i.

Is it true that if points are lost for these mobility aids someone could find themselves dropping into the WRAG group with less points?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The mobility section of PIPs is the most abused. You only have to see how many people use blue badges when they shouldn't either by deceiving their GPs/examiners or by using someone else's. I heard of a local family who have two mobility cars for their "disabled" (ADHD) children.

Authorities just won't grasp the issues. Its about time they did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Always had u turn written all over this. Question is where will they cut instead?

I'd happily give back the 8% cut in Capital Gains Tax to protect the (genuinely) disabled. Or preferably George can whack another 8% again onto property CGT.

There's a massive morality issue here with a budget gifting money to better off members of society, and taking from the disabled. Whatever the detail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cameron didn't have foresight to see that a Brexit vote would cause a complete fissure in the Tory Party. It's splitting in half. IDS, whatever his real thoughts on disability benefit, is Team Brexit and is free to say what he likes now, with the other players on the back benches. I predict he he starts sidling up to Boris now, with his eye on Cameron getting the boot.

My local Greater London paper for today, has the front page headline "Hit the road Zac", referring to an article about how Goldsmith has been removed as patron from a disability charity (Thurs 17th) after he voted to cut disabled benefits by £1,500 pa. Good luck becoming Mayor.

These cuts are never making it through parliament.

Edited by Starla

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There's a massive morality issue here with a budget gifting money to better off members of society, and taking from the disabled. Whatever the detail.

This really surprised me too. Whatever the merits of changing the PIP rules- by making these changes in a budget that also included tax cuts for the well off Osborne was either being arrogant or just plain stupid. You can't use austerity to justify cuts to the disabled while at the same time cutting taxes at the top-it's incoherent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   100 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.