Should Snp Vote Out

[rahhhh]

If there is an out vote in the upcoming EU referendum there is a chance of a new referendum on Scotland leaving the UK. Is that a chance worth taking?

[XswampyX]

Well we live in hope.

[long time lurking]

If there is an out vote in the upcoming EU referendum there is a chance of a new referendum on Scotland leaving the UK. Is that a chance worth taking?

I find it hard to see how the SNP could square that circle after their "once in a lifetime" opportunity fearmongering

But as someone has already pointed out to me on another thread there are other parties that could push for it, but i cant see them brushing aside the likes of the SNP/labour in the short term so it`s not even worth thinking about at this moment in time

[Sheeple Splinter]

This was covered on QT last night and the audience and panel's lively responses were broadly:

1. SNP - Project Fear 2014 threatened that Scotland would have to re-apply to the EU if it voted out. If the vote is to leave then there should be another Independence referendum. It was pointed out repeatedly that everyone knew there was going to be an EU Referendum before 2017.

2. The SI referendum was a 'once in a generation' event - 55% voted to stay in - respect vote and shut up.

3. SNP voters are in both camps for the EU - as in other parties.

Programme gave a good indication that the EUR debate is not going to go away - whatever the outcome.

[AThirdWay]

This was covered on QT last night and the audience and panel's lively responses were broadly:

1. SNP - Project Fear 2014 threatened that Scotland would have to re-apply to the EU if it voted out. If the vote is to leave then there should be another Independence referendum. It was pointed out repeatedly that everyone knew there was going to be an EU Referendum before 2017.

2. The SI referendum was a 'once in a generation' event - 55% voted to stay in - respect vote and shut up.

3. SNP voters are in both camps for the EU - as in other parties.

Programme gave a good indication that the EUR debate is not going to go away - whatever the outcome.

There is a rather heated discussion here in Dundee over the make up of that audience. Hardly a Dundonian to be seen!

The short dumpy lass with the masculine hair cut that asked a question, she was a candidate for a labour councillor last time around, but had to step down when she described the children of SNP supporters as akin to the Hitler Youth. There was also a bloke in the audience who got a fair amount of airtime... turns out he was the labour candidate for the constituency of Gordon, where he failed miserably to stop Salmond taking the seat in 2015.

In a city that has returned all SNP mp's and msp's, every question asked was by someone who was clearly biased against the SNP. It has become common knowledge that the beeb are the propaganda arm of Westminster over the last couple of years, ir appears they no longer bother to hide the fact now

In response to the OP, I would imagine that if the Uk votes out, but Scotland votes decisively in, the SNP will call a referendum, and likely win this time. The don't give a flying frig what was said last time about some generational nonsense, and neither do I.

Whether you think that is reason to vote in or out, well that is entirely up to you

[Sheeple Splinter]

There is a rather heated discussion here in Dundee over the make up of that audience. Hardly a Dundonian to be seen!

The short dumpy lass with the masculine hair cut that asked a question, she was a candidate for a labour councillor last time around, but had to step down when she described the children of SNP supporters as akin to the Hitler Youth. There was also a bloke in the audience who got a fair amount of airtime... turns out he was the labour candidate for the constituency of Gordon, where he failed miserably to stop Salmond taking the seat in 2015.

In a city that has returned all SNP mp's and msp's, every question asked was by someone who was clearly biased against the SNP. It has become common knowledge that the beeb are the propaganda arm of Westminster over the last couple of years, ir appears they no longer bother to hide the fact now

In response to the OP, I would imagine that if the Uk votes out, but Scotland votes decisively in, the SNP will call a referendum, and likely win this time. The don't give a flying frig what was said last time about some generational nonsense, and neither do I.

Whether you think that is reason to vote in or out, well that is entirely up to you

If Scotland votes to remain in the EU with 55%, will you accept that?

[AThirdWay]

If Scotland votes to remain in the EU with 55%, will you accept that?

If the UK does, do you think that you should wait a generation for EU referendum #2?

[Sheeple Splinter]

If the UK does, do you think that you should wait a generation for EU referendum #2?

Brilliant question!

[geezer466]

There is a rather heated discussion here in Dundee over the make up of that audience. Hardly a Dundonian to be seen!

The short dumpy lass with the masculine hair cut that asked a question, she was a candidate for a labour councillor last time around, but had to step down when she described the children of SNP supporters as akin to the Hitler Youth. There was also a bloke in the audience who got a fair amount of airtime... turns out he was the labour candidate for the constituency of Gordon, where he failed miserably to stop Salmond taking the seat in 2015.

In a city that has returned all SNP mp's and msp's, every question asked was by someone who was clearly biased against the SNP. It has become common knowledge that the beeb are the propaganda arm of Westminster over the last couple of years, ir appears they no longer bother to hide the fact now

In response to the OP, I would imagine that if the Uk votes out, but Scotland votes decisively in, the SNP will call a referendum, and likely win this time. The don't give a flying frig what was said last time about some generational nonsense, and neither do I.

Whether you think that is reason to vote in or out, well that is entirely up to you

Do you know everyone in Scotland?

[EUBanana]

If there is an out vote in the upcoming EU referendum there is a chance of a new referendum on Scotland leaving the UK. Is that a chance worth taking?

It should be irrelevant IMO.

Scottish independence is a separate issue. So long as they are part of the UK it's neither here nor there what the UK does; they agreed to be in it and that's what being in it means. If in the future they decide not to be in it, then fine.

Certainly it should not be used as an attempt to blackmail the rest of the UK into staying. If they dislike the UK that much they'll be off anyway at some point no matter what concessions are made.

[AThirdWay]

Do you know everyone in Scotland?

No, but I can do my research

[rahhhh]

"In response to the OP, I would imagine that if the Uk votes out, but Scotland votes decisively in, the SNP will call a referendum, and likely win this time. The don't give a flying frig what was said last time about some generational nonsense, and neither do I."

Aye, but if the UK votes in there is no future chance for a further scottish referendum. Scotland is not a country within this vote.

[Alba]

The SNP leadership should put their money where their mouth is and include a statement in their manifesto to the effect that a vote for them in the coming election is a vote for a fresh referendum. The leadership keep repeating that a fresh referendum will take place when the Scottish people ask for it. Give us the opportunity then! How else can we collectively convey our feelings? They are chicken!

I voted NO but they did not respect my decision along with that of all the other NO voters. I don't believe that a second referendum should be spuriously linked to the EU referendum. Scotland voted by a majority to stay within the UK, and this is a UK REFERENDUM! Where does the SNP get their mandate to separate the Scottish EU vote from the overall UK vote?

I intend to exercise my NO vote for an SNP Government in May. I sincerely hope that they don't get anywhere near a similar sized majority as in the last election.

They need to be properly held to account for their governance. Thus far they have had a really easy ride. I truly hope that this will end following the May election.

I want the 'Neverendum' to be stopped in it's tracks once and for all, and at the very least for a generation..............as was promised!

[AThirdWay]

"In response to the OP, I would imagine that if the Uk votes out, but Scotland votes decisively in, the SNP will call a referendum, and likely win this time. The don't give a flying frig what was said last time about some generational nonsense, and neither do I."

Aye, but if the UK votes in there is no future chance for a further scottish referendum. Scotland is not a country within this vote.

Agreed, in the short to medium term.

That is Sturgeons stated position, but never forget that the SNP will always have their eye on the prize!

[Lurkst]

If there is an out vote in the upcoming EU referendum there is a chance of a new referendum on Scotland leaving the UK. Is that a chance worth taking?

If both Scotland and the UK vote to leave where would the justification be for another independence referendum?

[thevaliant]

If both Scotland and the UK vote to leave where would the justification be for another independence referendum?

There wouldn't. What the SNP (probably secretly) hope for is a UK LEAVE vote but with Scotland having voted REMAIN (Given we will get results area by area we will know this pretty quickly) which could be used to trigger another referendum on Scottish independence.

Of course, this causes problems. If SNP supporters vote LEAVE, they increase the likelihood of an overall UK LEAVE vote, but also run the risk of accidently tipping Scotland to LEAVE as well.

[CunningPlan]

As I read it, If Scotland votes remain but the UK as a whole votes out, Scots see that as undemocratic and will want another referendum.

It is much more likely that Scotland and Wales will overwhelmingly vote remain but England will, on a tight margin, vote out.

If this means that England has to remain despite not voting that way, can the English have an independence referendum?

[CyberNat]

As I read it, If Scotland votes remain but the UK as a whole votes out, Scots see that as undemocratic and will want another referendum.

It is much more likely that Scotland and Wales will overwhelmingly vote remain but England will, on a tight margin, vote out.

If this means that England has to remain despite not voting that way, can the English have an independence referendum?

Such a situation would be glorious for us pro Scottish Independence types! Scotland keeping England in the EU against its will!

[Lurkst]

It is much more likely that Scotland and Wales will overwhelmingly vote remain but England will, on a tight margin, vote out.

If this means that England has to remain despite not voting that way, can the English have an independence referendum?

I can't see how that scenario would be much more likely. It would require an incredibly close (and therefore less probable) result in England...

[geezer466]

I can't see how that scenario would be much more likely. It would require an incredibly close (and therefore less probable) result in England...

Don't underestimate the leave vote in Scotland......

Scots Nats may be the largest local party but they aspire to a free Scotland. Casting off the so called bonds of Westminster to swop them for the bonds of Brussels is not logical....

Particularly now that taxation and welfare powers are about to devolved.

[AThirdWay]

Don't underestimate the leave vote in Scotland......

Scots Nats may be the largest local party but they aspire to a free Scotland. Casting off the so called bonds of Westminster to swop them for the bonds of Brussels is not logical....

Particularly now that taxation and welfare powers are about to devolved.

You think? Given the poor showing of UKIP this week, I can't see it. I'm guessing it'll be 30-40% for out in Scotland

[geezer466]

You think? Given the poor showing of UKIP this week, I can't see it. I'm guessing it'll be 30-40% for out in Scotland

UKIP is United Kingdom Independence, logical that they will not do well in Scotland as Nationalists want Scots Independence for themselves not UK independence from Brussels.

The Independence moment in Wales is not as 'fervent' as the Scots and a large majority wish to stop in the Union, demonstrated by Plaid not doing nearly so well as the SNP and the traditional support for the other parties not evaporating. Even UKIP have got a footing now in the Welsh Assembly so again this tells us something.

You more than ever should understand what it is to want independence!! Achieving that from the Union hard fought for at that then throwing your lot in with Brussels on an unknown set of joining criteria is illogical in the extreme.

Some very fervent Scots Nats over at the army rumour service (the independence argument has rolled on for years there) are as anti EU as they are Westminster and have declared they will vote out.

[Steppenpig]

Scotland will have more visible status at the Brussels trough, than it does at Westminster. Scots (politicians) are treated as a annoying inconvenience by London. They will be feted by the EU. All much more fun.

[copydude]

Interesting discussion. I'm rather of the opinion that referenda on staying or leaving should be held as often as election cycles, for all member states. I think the same consideration should be given to countries where the Euro clearly doesn't work, and some mechanism for exit of the Eurozone devised.

Imagine if we had elected New Labour for a generation. Doesn't bear thinking about . . . politicians must be held to account.