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SarahBell

Low-Income Households 'need Energy Cap'

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As always the government arrives to completely mess up the system with aribary caps which don't change with technology, time, inflation or market conditions. These are then gamed by the market and its participants for mutual benefit of all....except the poor saps it was meant to help.

Agree that the best way to protect the poor is either - a free mandatory upgrade to smart meters so they can add fuel via app/online/phone and thus lower costs to near direct debit customers. Better infrastructure for everyone and a sustainable system to protect the poor which has benefit to the suppliers through lower admin costs and better information for their energy purchases.

Who would have thought you could come up with a reasonable hypothesis, spent 20k testing it out and then come to a conculsion without hiring a "top establishment cronie" on £500K a year to hire his friends to spent £20m to come to a conclusion that they need "a cap for the poor".... We live in a kleptocracy....most evidence seems to prove this. What what is done, not what is said.

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From the link:

"It has also proposed that the regulator, Ofgem, keeps a database of customers that have been on a standard rate for three years.
This database will then be opened up so these customers can be targeted directly by other suppliers."
More abuse of personal details?

That one will SURELY be rejected? There has to be a limit to our rulers' stupidity when someone points out how the junkmail will play out. Even if political correctness has driven ability out of Sir Humphrey's job, they can't be completely impervious to that message?

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If I've read their webpage correctly, nPower's pre-payment is the same as their conventional quarterly billing price.

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There is a scandal of pre-paid meters which cost a lot more than other meters.

I once looked at renting a house that was cold and damp and had a pre-paid electricity meter.

The landlord informed me it was "very convenient and easy to use". Of course it would have meant an extra £1000 a year or so for me - which is not so convenient.

If the government was serious about this they would do some of the things written above.

Also, for peak electricity usage times - why are we having to wait years to see if it's safe to have your fridge or heating switch off for a few minutes? It all seems to move very slowly.

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Are energy bills in MMR assesment requirements these days? Every pound paid in energy bills is a pound that cannot be leveraged up 4.5 times to obtain mortgage debt. (h/t Democorruptcy)

For each £1 that cannot be leveraged up, the mortgage term will have to be extended further. Until the bankster's computer says "affordable". Without a fixed 25 year term, the MMR affordability is too stretched in my mind. People are paying lots more in mortgage interest to make something falsely cost less because over the term it will cost much more. 50 year mortgages here we come.

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I know another solution to switching supplier as "they" (TPTB/media) keep on at us to do.

Just use less. Put on more clothing; wrap up in a duvet on your sofa to watch TV; go for a brisk walk to warm up; drink a hot cup of tea (OK you need some fuel to boil the kettle); go to the library/coffee shop to read etc.

Unless I have visitors I do all of the above and just turn my CH on very briefly. As long as you keep your rooms aired you're unlikely to get damp in the home. Then you'll have low bills and everyone is happy.

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There is a scandal of pre-paid meters which cost a lot more than other meters.

I once looked at renting a house that was cold and damp and had a pre-paid electricity meter.

The landlord informed me it was "very convenient and easy to use". Of course it would have meant an extra £1000 a year or so for me - which is not so convenient.

If the government was serious about this they would do some of the things written above.

Also, for peak electricity usage times - why are we having to wait years to see if it's safe to have your fridge or heating switch off for a few minutes? It all seems to move very slowly.

How long ago was that?

These days the pre pay meters are usually no different in price. I think offgem have stoped allowing DD discounts.

Just like they stopped tarrifits without a SC, so all have to have a SC even if is 0...

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From the link:

"It has also proposed that the regulator, Ofgem, keeps a database of customers that have been on a standard rate for three years.
This database will then be opened up so these customers can be targeted directly by other suppliers."
More abuse of personal details?

Looks like it.

Presumably you can opt out - otherwise the Information Commissioner might have something to say.

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The other thing the government does is play around with the prices of different energy supplies so they get the mix they want.

Well, if they tendered for the supply in the first place they could get the mix of energy supplies they wanted.

All this stuff about the market knows best and then trying to play around with the prices and rules to get the answer they wanted in the first place is so pointless.

My council is doing a scheme with OVO:

Cheshire East Council has partnered with OVO, a recognised national energy supplier to bring you the new Fairerpower tariff offering. It is our aim to obtain the most competitive and sustainable energy prices, for both gas and electricity, so we can pass the benefit on to our customers

https://switch.fairerpower.co.uk/get-quote

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If I've read their webpage correctly, nPower's pre-payment is the same as their conventional quarterly billing price.

That is correct. It is a legal requirement that pre payment meters be offered on the same tariff as credit meters.

But the devil is in the detail. There are massive hidden discounts by paying by monthly direct debit instead of quarterly billing. Credit meters also have the h option of choosing a specific fixed price tariff for a lock in period; these can have substantially lower rates than the standard variable rate tariff.

The combination of direct debit discounts and option to chose term contracts means that credit meters can be much cheaper than prepayment.

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Funnily enough I've just moved to ecotricity. Not because I'm particularly 'green' although that is nice...no, it is because they just have one tariff as policy. No tariff for new customers, fixed rate products etc where added complexity is designed to delude people and sort out the wheat from the chaff.

No, I firmly believe the distribution of this commmodity should never have been privatised in this way. It has simply led to unnecessary complexity, misselling and a huge amount of extra cost in terms of marketing and sales and churn - not to mention ALL of ours wasted time trying to fight our way thru' the fug.

Not least I stongly dislike the way that the stupid, ignorant, unergetic, poorer and old are discriminated against whereas the more intelligent, energetic, better off and switched on often manage to get a better deal....for what overall purpose to society I ask? Especially when it ends up having to go back and try and thwart the pricing signals with trying to resolve the problem for poor people.

Government is best placed to act as a large, expert buyer on our behalf to deal with the private electricity producers.Then they can separately tender out billing (like the National Lottery in fact).

In the absence of that I chose to use Ecotricity so I know everyone they have is on the same tariff, new and current, rich and poor, young and old - even if it might be more expensive for some like me in the short run. AND I'm not forced to waste my time shopping around for the best deal all the time.

+1

Unlike the provision of weightless digital telecoms services, the transmission of physical media like electricity and water over long distances inevitably involves losses. Losses which contribute significantly to the cost of delivery to the end user, an intractable charge on the operating margins of privatised utility companies. They compensate by using the misleading and obfuscatory pricing tactics you identify, and by speculating in spot and futures markets. The minor cost savings that competition brings are then forfeit by unsophisticated consumers, and the risks of industry-wide failure massively escalated with the use of financial derivatives.

Enron had been constructing the biggest derivatives trading operation in the world at the time of its collapse in 2001.

Edited by zugzwang

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I know another solution to switching supplier as "they" (TPTB/media) keep on at us to do.

Just use less. Put on more clothing; wrap up in a duvet on your sofa to watch TV; go for a brisk walk to warm up; drink a hot cup of tea (OK you need some fuel to boil the kettle); go to the library/coffee shop to read etc.

Unless I have visitors I do all of the above and just turn my CH on very briefly. As long as you keep your rooms aired you're unlikely to get damp in the home. Then you'll have low bills and everyone is happy.

Whilst this is good advice most of the population are mentally unable to give up comforts . the gym near me is populated by people on running machines, its next to a beautiful park that stages weekly park runs . They like the gym because its not cold and damp and are willing to pay for those facilities. They walk around their homes in February in shorts and t shirts. Personally i would use very little heating but the 3 women in my household think i'm a mad skin flint. Btw have a wood burner which is fuelled by scavenged timber, its great .

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Those with the least and earn the least get charged the most.....more in taxes, more in charge for credit, rents per area of space and quality of area, and more for utilities as a percentage of income.....same as it has ever been.

Edited by winkie

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As far as I can see these "energy companies", are useless middle man traders, adding an extra cost to the product in the name of choice! :unsure: You get to choose the logo on your bill. :lol:

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Key meters are a complete rip-off.......like most pay as you go products and services....not as if you will leave a big debt and do a runner.

With energy and other services, it is those that stick and are complacent, loyal to firms that are taking them for a ride that are keeping the prices down for others that shop around and check prices........IMO the collective tariffs offer the best deals, but your energy company can't offer it, have to go via a intermediary company to get it...nothing that saves money is made easy.

Edited by winkie

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Key meters are a complete rip-off.......like most pay as you go products and services....not as if you will leave a big debt and do a runner.

With energy and other services, it is those that stick and are complacent, loyal to firms that are taking them for a ride that are keeping the prices down for others that shop around and check prices........IMO the collective tariffs offer the best deals, but your energy company can't offer it, have to go via a intermediary company to get it...nothing that saves money is made easy.

Also before you got the opportunity to choose between a standing charge or a first units at set rate and extra units at another lower rate....for some people the two price units worked out better for them, now they no longer offer that option......there is little difference between any of them, so call them and test out how long it takes them to answer the phone and how long it takes to talk to a real person....better companies offer a better service, help and good advice.....talk honestly, and do not want to tie you into a long-term commitment without a getout clause or very expensive penalty for wanting to leave them......why would anyone want to leave a good company?....

Edited by winkie

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Symptoms... not the cause.. The cause being that probably half their income or more goes on housing.

Got a pay rise this year.. Chewed back up by the private rent increase. Yeah, indeed 'work pays'. It pays my ******ing landlord

Edited by Assume The Opposite

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