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Brexit Referendum Poll - In Or Out?


warpig
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OK I understand. Somewhere between 1 and 2. The conclusion I came to was Britain was far more likely to be blackmailed in to staying because the conditions of our exit could be considered EU reparations...

I wasn't sure what you meant by "As I said, it took a while to pull all the information together and I agreed in the end, it is a concern."

Re the rule change March 2017, is your position 1 or 2?

1. It means a member state like us cannot leave unless the other states agree to let us.

2. You are just concerned that negotiations about anything will be harder for us

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We can't sort the country out whilst we're in the EU. Why do you keep saying that?

Yes we can.

Why do you refuse to address the points I have made? We have NEVER determined the direction of our country, and exposing the best country in the world to political upheaval doesn't make sense.....discuss.

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The risk for Britain is in staying in the EU, not leaving. The risk for the EU is in Britain leaving, it will cause contagion. The political and economic upheaval will happen irrespective of BREXIT, The EU is in dismal economic decline the same as the rest of the world, why on Earth would you want to be part of a bigger mess. We should leave, pull up the drawbridge and start to sort this mess out.

Apologies. It appears my grammar was so atrociously bad that you were unable to address my point. Let me put it another way....

Out of all the countries you have lived in across the globe, you have came to the conclusion that the UK is the best (I assume your living in Scotland then?).

You now want to risk the BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, in your opinion, by exposing it to massive political upheaval. That is nonsensical.

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Ah i see so that's all going to change if we stay in the EU ? i know it`s not going to change if we leave

BTW ECB just lowered interest rates to 0% and increased QE from £60 bil to £80 bil per month

You misunderstand me. I don't actively support the EU as such. As you point out, they are every bit in thrall to the money as the Westminster/The City. However, EU legislation relating to workers rights or consumer safety, for example, would never be implemented, and maintained, by a Westminster government.

In my opinion, the EU has done more for the Scottish voter than Westminster. It isn't much, but it's enough to sway my vote.

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I see that a as way forward a working class girl made good has anyone ever voted anyone into the house of Lords ?

I'm afraid I see it as the elevation of a hypocrite.

No the population of the UK has never voted for a single member of the 'overseers' of UK legislation. That is my point. House of Lords, European Commission, why attack one and not the other?

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You misunderstand me. I don't actively support the EU as such. As you point out, they are every bit in thrall to the money as the Westminster/The City. However, EU legislation relating to workers rights or consumer safety, for example, would never be implemented, and maintained, by a Westminster government.

In my opinion, the EU has done more for the Scottish voter than Westminster. It isn't much, but it's enough to sway my vote.

I see nothing for workers rights

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I'm afraid I see it as the elevation of a hypocrite.

No the population of the UK has never voted for a single member of the 'overseers' of UK legislation. That is my point. House of Lords, European Commission, why attack one and not the other?

The EU commission only has a mandate to the EU as a whole (read the stronger economic countries ours would probably be included in that group )

The lords work for the wellbeing of the UK

What the EU have forced upon the weaker countries of late is criminal all to further the VI`s of the stronger countries and the people who made these decisions are unelected ....this is the major concern for me

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Nope you stated we have never had a say so i assumed you must know who had the say

Ah, one more post then...

Sorry, I thought you were asking which countries population has had a say in the past.

The 1% have the say on how this country is run. Always have done, always will, unless we do something about it.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30875633

I'm encouraged by the refusal of the Yanks to vote for the Republican political elite, the refusal of the labour party to elect the political norm and the Scottish voters for not returning to political apathy after the referendum, but it seems slightly hypocritical to advocate change in our relationship with the EU before we've addressed the problems in our own country?

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The EU commission only has a mandate to the EU as a whole (read the stronger economic countries ours would probably be included in that group )

The lords work for the wellbeing of the UK

What the EU have forced upon the weaker countries of late is criminal all to further the VI`s of the stronger countries and the people who made these decisions are unelected ....this is the major concern for me

No problem with your first sentence, the second is HIGHLY debatable, and I don't see how the UK leaving the EU would change the third?

Sorry, I'm out of here for tonight :)

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Ah, one more post then...

Sorry, I thought you were asking which countries population has had a say in the past.

The 1% have the say on how this country is run. Always have done, always will, unless we do something about it.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30875633

I'm encouraged by the refusal of the Yanks to vote for the Republican political elite, the refusal of the labour party to elect the political norm and the Scottish voters for not returning to political apathy after the referendum, but it seems slightly hypocritical to advocate change in our relationship with the EU before we've addressed the problems in our own country?

Well the mystical overlords will never be voted out anywhere in the world will they

Edited by long time lurking
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I will almost certainly be voting out.

I can rationalise it, but it just comes down to a gut feeling that the EU style ever-larger government will lead to a dystopian illiberal future.

It's not because I dislike what they have done - I think they have made many sensible laws - it's because I don't trust that they will continue to be benign, and I think when they start to turn on the people, we won't be able to vote them out.

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You misunderstand me. I don't actively support the EU as such. As you point out, they are every bit in thrall to the money as the Westminster/The City. However, EU legislation relating to workers rights or consumer safety, for example, would never be implemented, and maintained, by a Westminster government

So you're ok with technocracy so long as it does things you approve of?

That strikes me as an incredibly short sighted view. And i don't understand how people can approve of a democratic government being overruled by an unelected bureaucracy and thinking this is a good thing.

Democracy is the worst system aside from all the others and such. Unfortunately Europe as a whole has never really seemed to get that with the exception of the UK. And perhaps nowadays not even the UK gets it.

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The most efficient way to deal with a mess, is to get rid of the biggest mess first and that certainly isn't London it's Brussels. Not only is it a mess, they're non-elected officials, so they go first.

We do determine the direction of our country, we always have apart from when the EU morphed from a trade agreement in to some political and economic behemoth. You seem to have a problem with politics in general and as such you should vote to rid yourself of this extra layer of bureaucratic nonsense that we didn't sign up to.

Yes we can.

Why do you refuse to address the points I have made? We have NEVER determined the direction of our country, and exposing the best country in the world to political upheaval doesn't make sense.....discuss.

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And the House of Lords is utterly irrelevant. Compare a revising chamber which basically does skut work that the MPs can't be bothered to deal with with a European Commission wielding executive power. Comparing British democracy unfavourably with the EU technocracy is a sick joke tbh.

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All the same but the ones in westminster are democratically elected they are voted in and they can be voted out it`s not perfect but it`s a million miles better than European commissioners version of democracy

Last time around were we ruled by Peter Mandelson (by proxy) and then Gordon Brown. Neither of whom were voted in as PM. This time around we are ruled by a bunch of old etonians who said one thing in their manifesto and are doing precisely the opposite in power. Is there anything we can do about it? Nope. It's the illusion of democracy - and makes no difference to me if it's the EU or our own lot that are turning us over. However the downsides that I listed earlier are real reasons, I believe, to not bin off the EU because we are in love with the impossible dream of deciding our own fate.

Edited by repetitive bleats
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Last time around we we ruled by Peter Mandelson (by proxy) and then Gordon Brown. Neither of whom were voted in as PM. This time around we are ruled by a bunch of old etonians who said one thing in their manifesto and are doing precisely the opposite in power. Is there anything we can do about it? Nope. It's the illusion of democracy - and makes no difference to me if it's the EU or our own lot that are turning us over. However the downsides that I listed earlier are real reasons, I believe, to not bin off the EU because we are in love with the impossible dream of deciding our own fate.

Maybe so but we all had a chance to vote ,our system is not perfect (first past the post ) but we have a post and we have a chance to vote for the politicians who stand as candidates we can also vote for which candidate stands for the parties of one`s choosing

Is there anything we can do about it? Nope.

Of course there is, there will be another vote in a few years vote them out you have no chance of doing so with the EU

You detest what we have because you have no say but you are happy to vote for much more of the same ?because of economic arguments that are all hypothetical from both sides

All the same the sky will fall in arguments were had when the country was deciding on whether to use the euro or stick with the pound what happen sweet fa nothing changed

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