Men Fighting A Liberation War Against What They See As Female Tyranny

[Saving For a Space Ship]

Jolyon Jenkins reports on the men fighting a liberation war against what they see as female tyranny, and the separatist "men going their own way" - who've given up on women.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b072mq8s

I thought this was interesting

[sPinwheel]

The MGTOW philosophy entering mainstream. This is the first time I've seen this type of discussion on the BBC, of all places!

Cue shaming.

[Bossybabe]

I listened to the discussion this morning on R4. Nothing more calculated to force the sexes apart, so perhaps it's a good idea. After all, the world is overpopulated enough.

[Sandwiches33]

The herbivore men are now a massive threat in japan and part of its population collapse.

[stormymonday_2011]

So whats new

[porca misèria]

Too much the extreme fringe. And kind-of mocking, like the one who went on about valentine's day. A nutter, or entrapped into a rant he didn't really mean? Or both? BBC line, let's find something ridiculous, so we can "do" the issue without admitting there is a real issue at all.

I was reminded of the "bigoted woman". That was about an Establishment that labels you a racist for expressing concerns; this was about labelling non-feminist men as nutters and losers.

Ironically the worst nutter of all was on an hour earlier. With the story of a woman jailed for murdering her husband and with a history of husband-abuse, Woman's Hour talked about abuse of men. Two guests, one of whom was a woman (I think an academic from a mickey-mouse 'university') who was in complete denial that women could ever be the guilty party and whenever she was challenged just veered off into the usual men-villains women-victims story. Even the presenter seemed to think she was at least evading the issue.

[MrPin]

"Women's hour" isn't about women. It's about people who have so much privilege, they can afford to make bizarre lifestyle choices, which most people can't afford.

[porca misèria]

"Women's hour" isn't about women. It's about people who have so much privilege, they can afford to make bizarre lifestyle choices, which most people can't afford.

This time it was the guest rather than the presenter who was totally out to lunch. Or rather, probably carving herself a comfortable career preaching extreme misandry.

I've been trying to remember how come I had it on the radio. Think it must've been that I just hadn't budged to turn it off.

[Executive Sadman]

There just seems a completely arbitrary definition of 'victim' today. (OK, in reality its actually a highly calculated process engineered by the left to ensure they have a constant stream of vote's as the class system...or their solutions to it...are no longer relevant)

This for example. You could never call for a 'lower retirement age for men' because its their biology and lifestyles that cheat them out of a few years of payments, but some filthy demogogue in the SNP uses the same reasoning to demand such a change for those poor, persecuted Scots.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3473434/SNP-calls-pension-age-Scotland-set-lower-rest-UK-Scots-healthy-die-younger.html

Or the whole 'gender gap'. It has about as much validity as a 'suicide gap' Men and women, on aggregate, make difference choices. That means different outcomes. Some good, some bad. Some more moderate feminists accept this is the case, and insist on forcing the idea we must get more women into engineering and so forth. Perhaps theyre right, perhaps not. I dont know how much of female career choice is biology and how much socialization. Regardless, they still seem to want to make society now pay for the 'incorrect' career choices women in the workforce today have been making for up to the past 40 years.

That said, I don't particularly want mens rights activists to get much attention for the sole reason all feminists have achieved since about 1970 is create the impression women are all essentially children incapable of achieving anything without the government seizing it for them. And the same pathetic, whiny mentality seems to be replicated in the 'manosphere'

[workingpoor]

The new Ghostbusters remake is all female cast.

[MrPin]

That said, I don't particularly want mens rights activists to get much attention for the sole reason all feminists have achieved since about 1970 is create the impression women are all essentially children incapable of achieving anything without the government seizing it for them. And the same pathetic, whiny mentality seems to be replicated in the 'manosphere'

Harumph! Sheds are available for both sexes! It's a temple.

[MrPin]

The new Ghostbusters remake is all female cast.

What was wrong with the "old" Ghostbusters? Why not think of a new idea for a film?

[Frank Hovis]

What was wrong with the "old" Ghostbusters? Why not think of a new idea for a film?

I read recently that a lot of the drive for remakes comes from the copyright owners seeking regular boosts to their incomes from these otherwise pointless remakes.

Going back to the OP I see self-declared feminists as awful humourless people like Emma Watson and I would see ?masculinists in the same vein.

There is no great patriarchy oppressing women; there is no great matriarchy oppressing men. Don't waste your time and energy fighting something that doesn't exist.

[developer]

I don't like how Jolyon picks on the guys he is interviewing. And making straw man arguments like that they are making their personal views affect their political ones. I mean WTF, so any personal experience a person have can't be taken into account when forming a view of society and culture?

Then when these men come together and have similar experience I think they can justify saying it's part of our culture. This Jolyon guy is just being mean to them because he knows his viewers will be laughing at these men for not being macho and for admitting they have feelings. As men aren't allowed to have feelings in our shallow society.

I really feel sorry for those guys. They probably ended up dating women in their late 20's/ early 30's who had got tired of the c0ck carousel and just wanted a guy to pay for their life.

If they knew how shallow British women are I think they would try to date foreign women. But then most guys just think it's the same everywhere, it's not.

[MrPin]

I read recently that a lot of the drive for remakes comes from the copyright owners seeking regular boosts to their incomes from these otherwise pointless remakes.

Going back to the OP I see self-declared feminists as awful humourless people like Emma Watson and I would see ?masculinists in the same vein.

There is no great patriarchy oppressing women; there is no great matriarchy oppressing men. Don't waste your time and energy fighting something that doesn't exist.

Donkey Hotey did! Cervantes' classical story about windmill construction, about a million years ago in Spain.

[Sandwiches33]

of course in true bbc style they completely avoided anyone who could have proposed a rational argument. They pick the nutters and try to smear the argument.

Sargon of akkad, thunderfoot,Paul Elam, girlwriteswhat, milo yianoppolis on youtube are worth a listen to anyone interested in the subject. Its as much about free speech versus feminism than anything else.

Male suicide 5x higher than women, male homelessness 10x higher than women, Men get far harsher prison sentences for the same crime and men are failing at all levels of education. Men are twice as likely to be violently attacked. Male rape numbers unreported dwarfs female rape. The death rate for workplace accidents for men is something stupid like 99.9% I think it has even been 100% some years in the US. Then on top of that there are some extremely unjust rulings in the united states regard divorce and children where men are jailed for not paying impossible alimony.

A lot of men are a little bit ******ed off and sick of getting the blame. Sick of being villified. Japan is way ahead of the curve and this is causing catastrophic population decline as most men would choose to just do there own thing than work 90 hour weeks to raise a family.

Regardless of what you may think about men they make sure society is running, they do all the shitty dangerous essential jobs and yet they are dropping out in ever record numbers. Of course the more men who think ****** this and dont buy a 250k 3 bed semi the better it is for all of us on here.

[Austin Allegro]

I read quite a lot of MGTOW forums. One of the great things about the 'movement' is that it isn't really a movement. Feminists and lefties on Radio 4 can hand wring about it all they like, but there's nothing they can do about it. Western civilization is dying, or at least, transmuting into something different, just as the ancient world changed into the medieval world. MGTOW is just a part of that change. It can't be resisted any more than the changing of the tides or the seasons.

[Executive Sadman]

I read quite a lot of MGTOW forums. One of the great things about the 'movement' is that it isn't really a movement. Feminists and lefties on Radio 4 can hand wring about it all they like, but there's nothing they can do about it. Western civilization is dying, or at least, transmuting into something different, just as the ancient world changed into the medieval world. MGTOW is just a part of that change. It can't be resisted any more than the changing of the tides or the seasons.

No, I think you are correct. Dying is the right word. Less not sugar coat it with 'transmuting' rubbish.

People in general, male and female, don't realize just how rare the levels of freedoms we've enjoyed in the last 100 years are, historically speaking. Women uniquely seem to have been coaxed into seeing the culture war as between feminism and the patriarchy. If thats how they truly see the status quo, thats one war they really don't want to win. Its all very well feminists saying 'if women ruled the world there would be less violence, less wars, less corruption. Debatable itself, but regardless, so long as there are masculine, macho and imperialist cultures, cough, Islam, any 'matriarchal' culture will be swatted like a fly. As Frau Merkel is kindly demonstrating with the Turks, this 'turn the other cheek' mentality is only of any value if the other guy has the same end in mind.

The real culture war is between secularism and the twin threats of big brother state (particularly to men) and Islamic theocracy. (particularly to women)

Be careful what you wish for ladies.

[Turned Out Nice Again]

[Bloo Loo]

No, I think you are correct. Dying is the right word. Less not sugar coat it with 'transmuting' rubbish.

People in general, male and female, don't realize just how rare the levels of freedoms we've enjoyed in the last 100 years are, historically speaking. Women uniquely seem to have been coaxed into seeing the culture war as between feminism and the patriarchy. If thats how they truly see the status quo, thats one war they really don't want to win. Its all very well feminists saying 'if women ruled the world there would be less violence, less wars, less corruption. Debatable itself, but regardless, so long as there are masculine, macho and imperialist cultures, cough, Islam, any 'matriarchal' culture will be swatted like a fly. As Frau Merkel is kindly demonstrating with the Turks, this 'turn the other cheek' mentality is only of any value if the other guy has the same end in mind.

The real culture war is between secularism and the twin threats of big brother state (particularly to men) and Islamic theocracy. (particularly to women)

Be careful what you wish for ladies.

TBH, I havent met a single woman who would support the BS you hear from SJWs.

I DO have a male friend who thinks everyone is equal, that borders are racist and that Islamist Terrorists are not Muslims.

[JoeDavola]

TBH, I havent met a single woman who would support the BS you hear from SJWs.

I've met loads of 'em - but then again that is social media types and dating website types. Basically the dregs who don't represent real people maybe?

It seems to be very popular among the under 30's - I snapped the other day and removed someone from my facebook because I'd seen enough feminist garbage from them. Some crap about how a post from several years back that they had made showed their "Internalized Misogyny" at the time. Yawn.

Most women I work with (who have familes and all that) don't give a toss about SJW stuff cause they've got better things to do. And they're mostly really easy to get on with.

[Bloo Loo]

I think you might have hit the nail on the head, Joe....People with too much time on their hands, blame others for their predicament and start seeing wolves on the Streets, when there are none.

And giving them a response on the web makes them feel useful.

Shame that the only thing that have to say is "I'm a victim"....

[Sandwiches33]

http://www.erinpizzey.com/

Inventor of the "shelter" she was banned from the bbc for suggesting domestic violence can be a two way street.

MGTOW is the best form of protest against this current system, a refusal to participate in a system which relies on taxing your labours is a wonderfully passive aggressive means to fight back. I try to incorporate some of it into my life. Its not just good against feminism but its very effective against this debt slavery consumption ******** too.

Unless they start rounding up men at gun point they have no means of defending against it and regardless of all the right on folk it is men who engineer and build civilization. Japan has already discussed taxing single men more heavily.

personally I believe feminism was funded and designed to destroy the family unit and allow the state more control of peoples lives. There is nothing stronger than a community with strong families of men and women cooperating together. The stronger a community/family the less "state" is needed, the state has worked very hard these past few years to destroy the family.

[Executive Sadman]

TBH, I havent met a single woman who would support the BS you hear from SJWs.

I DO have a male friend who thinks everyone is equal, that borders are racist and that Islamist Terrorists are not Muslims.

I think the problem goes back to George Carlin's 'people are great, its groups that scare me'

Individually, most women arent going to make a point of pushing SJWism, because its so flawed, to the extent of seeming like satire to non-political folk. But in an echo-chamber, where groupthink rules, and no one wants to question the foundations of their premise (because continued funding demands them not to!) it grows like a cancer. And thats how these things create problems. Its groups and think tanks that get politicians attention.

Take the 'gender pay gap' narrative that the BBC seem to be pushing obsessively at the moment. The foundations of the premise for a gender pay gap simply arent questioned. Its just assumed that there is one, and it must be the result of 'patriarchy'. No other explanations are even considered. The only thing to discuss is how to deal with it. And even then, if you want to deal with it in the 'wrong' way (ie, not throwing more money at said think tanks) than you are still mysogynist.

I too have a couple of lefty male friends too. Well, one actually knows its crap, but chooses to push it anyway. He freely admits Islam is problematic, but has this kind of 'we're f*cked anyway, so why fight it attitude. The other has political views that simply havent developed since he was 16 or 17. And at 16 or 17 I was a standard lefty too. We used to have the same views. Not sure how deep his leftism is, he just doesnt really have the time or inclination to question the status quo and gets virtually all his political info from the Daily Show and similar.

[Errol]

The herbivore men are now a massive threat in japan and part of its population collapse.

So it's all the fault of men? Are the Japanese women not partly responsible?

Quite obviously if the Japanese women made themselves desirable or worthwhile to the men then the 'herbivore' issue would not exist (as much). This is the same in the West as well.