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wonderpup

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This is the entirely predictable outcome of mass surveillance combined with big data and recent developments in AI; a new paradigm of guilt and punishment.

Well don’t look now, but China is attempting to use big data, a military contractor, and a camera network known as “Skynet” to predict crimes before they happen.

“China’s effort to flush out threats to stability is expanding into an area that used to exist only in dystopian sci-fi: pre-crime,”Bloomberg reports. “The Communist Party has directed one of the country’s largest state-run defense contractors, China Electronics Technology Group, to develop software to collate data on jobs, hobbies, consumption habits, and other behavior of ordinary citizens to predict terrorist acts before they occur.”

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-03-07/china-goes-full-minority-report-creates-pre-crime-program

Such a system offers one huge advantage over previous totalitarian arrangements- in a 'pre crime' environment proof of guilt need neither be gathered or manufactured since the accusation of an intent to transgress in some near future scenario will be self validating- thus surveillance and trial become one seamless process in which guilt is established by the very fact of being tagged by the system as being worthy of it's attention in the first place.

It is, after all, impossible to defend yourself against the accusation that you might have done something in the future had you not been prevented from doing so in the present.

It's all nonsense of course-predicting the future is impossible- but this need not be a problem if enough people believe it is possible- perhaps even the accused might come to accept in time that their punishments are entirely justified by the crimes they would certainly have committed had they not been stopped in time.

Edited by wonderpup

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You don't need a conviction to have your life wrecked. The FBI claims hundreds of successfully disrupted terrorists annually - far more than there are trials. What they mean by "disrupted" is that lawful behaviour is prevented - permits denied, jobs lost, etc, etc.

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Why would China start this now? Is it because exports and imports are tanking. GDP stats turn out to be fictional. Stock market and housing market continue to dive. State encouraged investments turn out to be a ponzi. What's up, worried about a revolt?

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Dave and Theresa are already on the plane to Beijing to sign up for a trial no doubt.

Honest question. Will Minority Report be the next generation's "1984"...?

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This is the entirely predictable outcome of mass surveillance combined with big data and recent developments in AI; a new paradigm of guilt and punishment.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-03-07/china-goes-full-minority-report-creates-pre-crime-program

Such a system offers one huge advantage over previous totalitarian arrangements- in a 'pre crime' environment proof of guilt need neither be gathered or manufactured since the accusation of an intent to transgress in some near future scenario will be self validating- thus surveillance and trial become one seamless process in which guilt is established by the very fact of being tagged by the system as being worthy of it's attention in the first place.

It is, after all, impossible to defend yourself against the accusation that you might have done something in the future had you not been prevented from doing so in the present.

It's all nonsense of course-predicting the future is impossible- but this need not be a problem if enough people believe it is possible- perhaps even the accused might come to accept in time that their punishments are entirely justified by the crimes they would certainly have committed had they not been stopped in time.

Dont all despots do that ?

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I've been doing this for the past few months ie zero tolerance. I've been sorting out other peoples' rubbish in their overflowing bins; picking up litter in the surrounding streets; removing the dog poo deposited on my front lawn the minute it appears (unfortunately I've yet to identify the culprit) and I have an ongoing project of removing cigarette butts from my neighbour's garden (when he's out).

Result :D he put his house up for sale today and I'm overjoyed :). I thought I was the one who was going to have to move.

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It's great! Other than for people who want to live in a world of prehistoric lawlessness.

how did we survive before police forces?.....a recent innovation.

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So? Some new stuff is good, some isn't.

point is, people dont need 24/7 surveillance on them unless they are up to no good, and local society knows the bad eggs in their community and watch what they are up to normally...the miscreants either get the message and desist, or the locals do something about it. Thus was the way it ever was.

This trend towards everyone is a suspect makes everyone feel bad about everybody else...is that Muslim up to no good as he gets on my plane..it is insanely improbable that he is...but all this security makes you feel uneasy.

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Indeed it does, as do various other things all prevalent in the modern world for different but similar reasons, and is why I'm rather contemptuous towards people who readily embrace it all.

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Programming a fleet of drones to watch over us and keep us safe?

Armed with stun guns.

I remember watching this video a couple of years ago, and being totally blown away - you can bet that the tech is even more advanced now. Not just increidbly high resolution images, but real time object tracking for thousands of objects (cars, people etc). You can bet your life that these things will be hovering over cities 24/7 within a few years, especially once battery tech improves.

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Dont all despots do that ?

They do- but even the most despotic seem to feel the need to present their activities as being somehow legitimate- I can't think of a single dictator who ever described himself as being a dictator- there's almost always some narrative in which the dictator is portrayed as being legitimate- either through birthright or due to some pressing national crisis that needs his particular personal talents to be brought to bear.

The attraction of the 'pre-crime' concept is that one's opponents could be dispatched far more conveniently without the need for even a show trial- you just convict them of the things they might have done in the future- no evidence required because none could exist- beyond the predictive power of the technology itself.

Even Orwell did not consider that Big Brother might extend it's social control techniques by co-opting the future.

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It's great! Other than for people who want to live in a world of prehistoric lawlessness.

I think it's one of the most toxic ideas ever conceived- not because it would work but because people might be persuaded that it did work-at which point the entire concept of legal responsibility as we know it is effectively eliminated and replaced by something far more speculative.

In a world in which the idea of predictive crime detection was taken seriously you could be convicted of things that you have not yet done- things for which by current definition you could bear no personal responsibility for.

And while it sounds far fetched that people could ever come to believe in the idea of 'pre-crime' as a serious investigative tool consider the fact that juries readily convict people on the basis of complex DNA evidence that they do not understand purely on the basis that some 'expert' has assured them that his technology is foolproof.

So if in some future courtroom some expert assures the jury that his predictive technology is capable of identifying a crime before it occurs, a claim backed up by a plethora of impressive looking data and research would that jury be prepared to convict? I'm not entirely certain they would not.

Edited by wonderpup

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