Nozick Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 English Housing Survey: The rise of Generation Rent and workers relying on housing benefit Every year, the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG) carries out its English Housing Survey. Researchers look at the statistics to discover trends and changes in England's housing market, from social renting to home ownership. And the 2014/15 survey is now out. Here are the eye-catching findings. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/english-housing-survey-rise-generation-rent-workers-relying-housing-benefit-1544914 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Democorruptcy Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 "They have also introduced a number of schemes for those first-time buyers struggling against high house prices, including Help to Buy and shared ownership" I'm not sure the wording is correct.... to make those first time buyers struggle more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverwhere Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 There's a link direct to the DCLG's report here, for anyone who's interested: English Housing Survey: Headline Report 2014-15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bland Unsight Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 There's a link direct to the DCLG's report here, for anyone who's interested: English Housing Survey: Headline Report 2014-15 I hope it explains that it's all down to feckless wasters playing X-box instead of working and blowing their meagre pay on i-phones. If it doesn't, talk to the hand, cos the face ain't listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverwhere Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I hope it explains that it's all down to feckless wasters playing X-box instead of working and blowing their meagre pay on i-phones. If it doesn't, talk to the hand, cos the face ain't listening. It explains that the decline in owner-occupation appears to have stopped this year. I wonder what could possibly have changed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bland Unsight Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 It explains that the decline in owner-occupation appears to have stopped this year. I wonder what could possibly have changed? Did they ban immigrants and build millions of houses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverwhere Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Did they ban immigrants and build millions of houses? No. No, I don't think so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The12YearWait Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) Did they ban immigrants and build millions of houses? Would overseas buyers not be classed as owner occupiers and/or first time buyers. Edited February 21, 2016 by The12YearWait Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) It explains that the decline in owner-occupation appears to have stopped this year. I wonder what could possibly have changed? The word among the housing statisticians on Twitter (e.g. http://twitter.com/resi_analyst ) is that last year's count for the number of private renters was probably an overestimate, so the year-on-year change in this survey is misleading. Edited February 21, 2016 by Dorkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bland Unsight Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Would overseas foreigners not be classed as owner occupiers and/or first time buyers. Overseas foreigners are the worst of the lot. Give me a decent British foreigner every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverwhere Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) I've only skimmed it but here are another few points of interest, to set against claims of rents rising significantly ahead of wages and general landlord provision of new housing stock: While social rents increased between 2013-14 and 2014-15, private rents remained stable. Although this was not the case in London. In 2014-15, the average (mean) rent (excluding services but including Housing Benefit) for households in the social sector was £99 compared with £179 per week in the private rented sector. For social renters, average rents increased between 2013-14 and 2014-15, from £94 to £99. Average private rents were unchanged. While private rents did not increase between 2013-14 and 2014-15 at the national level, in London there was a £17 per week increase, from an average of £281 per week to £298 per week. 2.16 Private rented dwellings were more likely to be older and therefore more likely to have defects to the damp proof course, roof covering, gutters or down pipes, which could lead to problems with rising or penetrating damp affecting at least one room in the property. Edited February 21, 2016 by Neverwhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The12YearWait Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) Overseas foreigners are the worst of the lot. Give me a decent British foreigner every time. I amended it prior to your posting when i noticed my mistake. Edited February 21, 2016 by The12YearWait Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverwhere Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) The word among the housing statisticians on Twitter (e.g. http://twitter.com/resi_analyst ) is that last year's count for the number of private renters was probably an overestimate, so the year-on-year change in this survey is misleading. That's interesting, thanks! I guess it may have been a little overly optimistic to think that we were definitely seeing a measurable effect this early on. * Edited to add 'definitely'. I think at the this point it's correct to say that there appears to be, at the very least, uncertainty around the data, but I'm not sure that it's enough to make any strong claims in either direction. Edited February 21, 2016 by Neverwhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverwhere Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 For context this is the DCLG tenure graph: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bland Unsight Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 When you think that maybe 25%-30% of those "buying with a mortgage" are actually mortgage prisoners with big interest-only liar loans that they'll never pay off that trend in the buying with a mortgage probably flatters reality. Between the renters in the PRS servicing a BTL interest-only mortgages and owner-occupier mortgage prisoners the percentage of people who are actually just renting from the bank is probably now the same size as the social renting sector. Magnificent work Team UK. Renting from the council with security of tenure to renting from the bank at twice the price with no security of tenure. Win-win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I guess it may have been a little overly optimistic to think that we were seeing a measurable effect this early on. A measurable effect of what? The only thing that will lead to a significant increase in homeownership is a drop in house prices relative to wages and that hasn't happened yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bland Unsight Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 We could get the government to pay a big chunk of the private rents via transfer spending - Tax Credits, LHA etc. Then it's really awesome. Oh. We did that already! Good job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bland Unsight Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I amended it prior to your posting when i noticed my mistake. If that's the worst typo you ever make which you don't get to fix before some t0sser makes a crap joke, you have a glorious posting career ahead of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The12YearWait Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 If that's the worst typo you ever make which you don't get to fix before some t0sser makes a crap joke, you have a glorious posting career ahead of you. The point still stands, many thousands of houses/flats are sold to foreign investors, if they are categorised as FTB and or OO that sways the numbers significantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverwhere Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 A measurable effect of what? The only thing that will lead to a significant increase in homeownership is a drop in house prices relative to wages and that hasn't happened yet. I was just interested that there might have been a slowdown in the expansion of the PRS after the Summer Budget tax changes. Plausibly a small, but measurable, impact on trends in tenure might show up prior to a significant increase in homeownership, which I agree would require a drop in house prices relative to wages. For instance they might become increasingly static, rather than actively reversed. Before looking through this report it hadn't really occurred to me to anticipate this as being reported prior to price falls, but I'm open to the possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bland Unsight Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 The point still stands, many thousands of houses/flats are sold to foreign investors, if they are categorised as FTB and or OO that sways the numbers significantly. You'd have to look at the EHS methodology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverwhere Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) The point still stands, many thousands of houses/flats are sold to foreign investors, if they are categorised as FTB and or OO that sways the numbers significantly. The report covers trends in tenure. If they're investors rather than residents their properties will either be holday homes or empty, and so AIUI not included at all, or privately rented and included in the PRS figures. Edited February 21, 2016 by Neverwhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearishonhouses Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 When you think that maybe 25%-30% of those "buying with a mortgage" are actually mortgage prisoners with big interest-only liar loans that they'll never pay off that trend in the buying with a mortgage probably flatters reality. Between the renters in the PRS servicing a BTL interest-only mortgages and owner-occupier mortgage prisoners the percentage of people who are actually just renting from the bank is probably now the same size as the social renting sector. Magnificent work Team UK. Renting from the council with security of tenure to renting from the bank at twice the price with no security of tenure. Win-win. I see repeatedly remarks along the lines suggesting that folks with mortgages (especially large ones) are 'renting from the bank. This practice comes across as if the writer has a big chip on their shoulder because they themselves do not have the burden of owning property are not owners, but think that property owners see themselves as 'superior- in some unknown way, to renters. This belief is garbage. While undoubtedly there are some 'owners' that consider themselves 'superior' to renters, those whose opinions you might care about, do not. (And there are probably a bunch of stupid men/women/chelsea supporters/accountants/teachers/Irish/conservatives/socialists that might fall into these categories too, but so what! Don't worry about such idiots. The distinction between renters and owner occupiers - even those with big mortgages - is that the owner occupiers are responsible for the maintenance and upkeep of the property, and carry all the risk of the forthcoming decline in prices when they revert back to long-term sustainable levels. At that time, renters from landlords will not wish to be in the same boat as those whom many refer to as 'renters from the bank'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverwhere Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 I think the phrase "renting from the bank" was in reference to people with interest only mortgages specifically, and not people with repayment mortgages. Anyone with an interest only mortgage, whether they are a buy-to-let landlord or an owner occupier, isn't actually paying off any of the money that they've borrowed and so their equity in the property only increases if house prices rise and they resist the temptation to engage in mortgage equity withdrawal. Otherwise their lender retains a hold over their property indefinitely. This is, of course, a much riskier proposition than taking out a repayment mortgage which the borrower will eventually pay off and, in so doing, take full ownership of the property in practice as well as in name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bland Unsight Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 I see repeatedly remarks along the lines suggesting that folks with mortgages (especially large ones) are 'renting from the bank. This practice comes across as if the writer has a big chip on their shoulder because they themselves do not have the burden of owning property are not owners, but think that property owners see themselves as 'superior- in some unknown way, to renters. This belief is garbage. Please don't hold back on the cod-psychoanalysis on my account. With your 85 posts in 90 months it is good to see that we have a subject which has captured your imagination, if not your attention. In my post (and naturally enough in your quote of it also) I specifically identify "mortgage prisoners with big interest-only liar loans that they'll never pay off" as renting from the bank. In conflating that group with "folks with mortgages" you betray an inclination to leap before you look, though I wouldn't propose to offer any analysis of how your actions were informed by your circumstances or any psychological scars you carry. The attitude of overly-aggressively jumping on other commenters is what has already changed what were once valuable internet forums to desolate waste grounds. (e.g. many on Reddit - especially re SERIAL, Yahoo in general). I find much discussion on this site civil and informed, but the comments which impugn others by asserting that they are driven by resentment, jealousy, anger offer very little to the community.* While undoubtedly there are some 'owners' that consider themselves 'superior' to renters, those whose opinions you might care about, do not. (And there are probably a bunch of stupid men/women/chelsea supporters/accountants/teachers/Irish/conservatives/socialists that might fall into these categories too, but so what! Don't worry about such idiots. The distinction between renters and owner occupiers - even those with big mortgages - is that the owner occupiers are responsible for the maintenance and upkeep of the property, and carry all the risk of the forthcoming decline in prices when they revert back to long-term sustainable levels. At that time, renters from landlords will not wish to be in the same boat as those whom many refer to as 'renters from the bank'. Your interesting post continues. Having decided that my motivation is a chip on my shoulder you then explain to me that whilst some owner-occupiers consider themselves superior to me as a lowly renter, I shouldn't worry, (hence implying that I was worrying). And then finally, just in case there was any doubt regarding how disturbed, thick and ignorant you are willing to suppose that I am, you explain to me the difference between renting and owning. Thanks - I really appreciate that. Very constructive. You should post more. * You see what I did there? Fixed your typos too, because I am a nice guy. 100% chip-free. I still haven't bothered to look up what SERIAL is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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