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SarahBell

Labour Think About Citizen Income

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The think tank has published a detailed report proposing basic income of £3,692 for all qualifying citizens between 25 and 65, or £308 per month.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/universal-basic-income-policy-under-consideration-by-uk-labour-party-shadow-chancellor-john-a6878856.html

https://www.thersa.org/discover/publications-and-articles/reports/basic-income/Download

Edited by SarahBell

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From the above document:

Those aged 16-25 years-old would be expected to declare

publicly how this income would be used to support them in
learning, work, caring, volunteering or establishing a business.

year. Basic Income
would be receivable only by virtue of being on the electoral
register (for over 18 year-olds) so would underpin citizenship.

Basic Income has a number of advantages over the current
system. Benefit fraud is far less. [implying there is still other benefits, which defeats the object surely?]


Mulheirn and Masters propose a ‘lifecycle account’ to

provide additional income during a six-month period of unemployment.
16 A compulsory charge on income would be placed
in a personal account. If funds were insufficient to restore
income to 80 percent of previous levels then funds could be
borrowed to be paid back from future earnings. This would be
ensured by three guarantors who would apply social pressure
and support as they would be liable for some proportion of any
unpaid monies. This is the ‘Facebook’ element of the scheme.

(And they think the current system is hard?)

Our proposal is based on the Citizen’s Income Trust 2012-13
scheme with some important fiscal adaptations. Housing and
disability are not included in the model as a consequence. It is
referred to here as the ‘RSA Basic Income’.

Basic Income of £3,692 for all qualifying citizens
between 25 and 65.
•• Pension of £7,420 for all qualifying citizens over 65.
•• A Basic Income for children aged 0-4 of £4,290 for the
first child and £3,387 for other children aged 0-4:

There would be a reduction in the Basic Income
for a third child or more, potentially to zero. This
would reduce the cost of the system and would
align it even closer with prevailing political and
moral expectations.

From removing benefits, tax reliefs and allowances (excluding
those relating to disability and housing), the Citizen’s
Income Trust estimates total savings of £272bn

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Unfortunately that's not all it would be, which defeats the whole point of a citizen's income.

Imagine the shrieking from the benefit classes if they were told they were going to get £308 a month.

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Im creaming it in on tax credits at the moment, this started last November about the time that dumb women who paints nails was having an emotional breakdown about having to struggle on 20 odd thousand a year in working tax and child tax credits, housing benefit etc...

Anyway despite being a single parent for 3 years i never bothered with it applying for all this free money up until October 15 ish, anyway i looked into my account and about £100 a week was being put in just for WTC, so i called thinking there had been a mistake thinking it should be this amount a month, bloke looked into it and confirmed this figure is correct .... i was truly staggered.

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Unfortunately that's not all it would be, which defeats the whole point of a citizen's income.

Imagine the shrieking from the benefit classes if they were told they were going to get £308 a month.

Half the nation would be out of pocket.

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From the above document:

Those aged 16-25 years-old would be expected to declare

publicly how this income would be used to support them in

learning, work, caring, volunteering or establishing a business.

year. Basic Income

would be receivable only by virtue of being on the electoral

register (for over 18 year-olds) so would underpin citizenship.

Basic Income has a number of advantages over the current

system. Benefit fraud is far less. [implying there is still other benefits, which defeats the object surely?]

Mulheirn and Masters propose a ‘lifecycle account’ to

provide additional income during a six-month period of unemployment.

16 A compulsory charge on income would be placed

in a personal account. If funds were insufficient to restore

income to 80 percent of previous levels then funds could be

borrowed to be paid back from future earnings. This would be

ensured by three guarantors who would apply social pressure

and support as they would be liable for some proportion of any

unpaid monies. This is the ‘Facebook’ element of the scheme.

(And they think the current system is hard?)

Our proposal is based on the Citizen’s Income Trust 2012-13

scheme with some important fiscal adaptations. Housing and

disability are not included in the model as a consequence. It is

referred to here as the ‘RSA Basic Income’.

Basic Income of £3,692 for all qualifying citizens

between 25 and 65.

•• Pension of £7,420 for all qualifying citizens over 65.

•• A Basic Income for children aged 0-4 of £4,290 for the

first child and £3,387 for other children aged 0-4:

There would be a reduction in the Basic Income

for a third child or more, potentially to zero. This

would reduce the cost of the system and would

align it even closer with prevailing political and

moral expectations.

From removing benefits, tax reliefs and allowances (excluding

those relating to disability and housing), the Citizen’s

Income Trust estimates total savings of £272bn

Thats nuts.

Citizen income is a libertatrain thing where you look at how much the state speds on stuff and say, Screw it, just give them the money and leave them alone.

Labour's take on it is to give the money and then employ loads of people to check how its being spent!

And the 'excluded disabled.

Do they mnean the 10% who are properly disabled, or the other 90% who are winging it?

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From Sarah's post: (excluding those relating to disability and housing).

So it may be better or worse than the current system, but it fails to touch the fundamental problem and corruption-magnet of means-testing, and the long-term damage to our housing market.

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Private banks print money out of thin air at zero cost every day. Then price gouge you for the privilege with interest. Our economic system is debt based, which has an embed 'trickle up' dynamic towards the masters of money creation.

Want more money in the economy? We need more debt. Sound money/living within means/free market soundbites are pure fantasy within our financial system.

This policy would just balance the scales.

Edited by Assume The Opposite

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A citizens income is coming in,its just a case of when,and how.Universal Credit needs to fail first for families.Our welfare system as it stands doesnt have long left.Notice today the job numbers.Lots more in work but welfare bill going up and wages flat.Its all tax credit funded.

The last chance the left had to defend some form of means tested welfare system was to support the small tax credit cuts.By not doing so they have ensured means tested welfare will be a thing for the history books in a couple of decades.They just dont know it yet.

I am seeing more and more people dropping out of decent jobs onto 16 hour ones and pulling in the tax credits.

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As others have already said - this is not a citizens income. Not remotely close. Its just another overly convulated and complex benefits system.

We already have one of those thanks very much.

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No point doing this without a Land Value Tax. Otherwise gains will be sucked up by rentiers, just like Housing Benefit.

Very true,to ensure a CI works for the long term a Land Value Tax will be crucial.Thats probably what has stopped one so far.Our current welfare system sucks wealth from the middle class and working class who work,launders it through the welfare system and hands it to the rentiers.Keeps working people down and ensures the rentiers dont swing from lamposts.Fantastic system....for them.

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I quite like this, its the bureaucracy that needs removing and this helps get to the bottom of the problem. if you could sack most of the people who are employed by the government mafia that would move a good portion of workers into a productive environment. I think the problem with this is that it examples how poor we are as a nation because of past policies but its still a step in the right direction imo.

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At least it is getting some political discussion.

It needs to be simple, state lite, for UK citizens, and not incentivise certain behaviours (e.g., popping out kids) - children 0-4 getting more than adults? (Seems the same carry on as now.) Then how are older children 5+ treated. Children should be a lower rate forcing the question can you afford children?

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Cant edit the conflicting dates but applied October got free money November.

A citizens income is coming in,its just a case of when,and how.Universal Credit needs to fail first for families.Our welfare system as it stands doesnt have long left.Notice today the job numbers.Lots more in work but welfare bill going up and wages flat.Its all tax credit funded.

The last chance the left had to defend some form of means tested welfare system was to support the small tax credit cuts.By not doing so they have ensured means tested welfare will be a thing for the history books in a couple of decades.They just dont know it yet.

I am seeing more and more people dropping out of decent jobs onto 16 hour ones and pulling in the tax credits.

Yoo hoo!

Edited by shindigger

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No point doing this without a Land Value Tax. Otherwise gains will be sucked up by rentiers, just like Housing Benefit.

Agree....as it stands any CI will be funneled into increased rents and larger mortgages.......no help to anyone apart from land owners and mortgage providers......savings will further erode into oblivion.... ;)

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Unfortunately that's not all it would be, which defeats the whole point of a citizen's income.

Imagine the shrieking from the benefit classes if they were told they were going to get £308 a month.

You mean the bankers? or the landed gentry 'c-words' who offshore their income for tax reasons? All of who cost us more in every term you can imagine than the 'spongers' who lost their jobs or got old working a lifetime for crumbs. Only a tiny %age of benefit recipients actually do it on purpose as a career regardless of what 'Benefit Street' portrays many to be.

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You mean the bankers? or the landed gentry 'c-words' who offshore their income for tax reasons? All of who cost us more in every term you can imagine than the 'spongers' who lost their jobs or got old working a lifetime for crumbs. Only a tiny %age of benefit recipients actually do it on purpose as a career regardless of what 'Benefit Street' portrays many to be.

No. Disagree,

I see this sort of stuff on my (Northern) home town's FB page.

There are few landed gentry. They do no offshore their money.

Most is tied up in a trust.

If you want to screw over the landed gentry then scrap Farming subs. Thats all.

As far as a tiny percentage of benefits claimants. Balls.

There's entire towns in the NE scamming it.

Rather than public money beingpent on fantastic infrastructure like transport and schools, it gets given away and p1ssed down 'spoons and chumped in Greggs.

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You mean the bankers? or the landed gentry 'c-words' who offshore their income for tax reasons? All of who cost us more in every term you can imagine than the 'spongers' who lost their jobs or got old working a lifetime for crumbs. Only a tiny %age of benefit recipients actually do it on purpose as a career regardless of what 'Benefit Street' portrays many to be.

Fact is that there's no way this would get past the electorate, let alone the Labour electorate. Unless it had a lot of other bennies attached, which defeats the whole point of a CI.

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Any productive person in teh UK really needs to leave.

Right. Because the UK has such a strong productivity record right now with all those highly productive industries like property speculation and derivatives Ponzi schemes. Did you take a look at manufacturing lately? Have you looked at the balance of trade figures at any time this century?

Citizens wage, unlike means tested benefits, actually encourages growth, productivity and competition.

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