Gender Pay Gap Fearmongering On The Bbc

[Bloo Loo]

Here we go again, there is no gender pay gap for the same job.

But the BBC today on the News at 1 were happy to report that there is a10% pay gap on average between men and women.

That means, they say, women are £100 A WEEK worse off.

now, for £100 to be 10%, men must, on average be on £1000 a week.

In a country where the average wage is less than £500 a week.

Radio was bleating on about low pay for care workers...yes it is low paid, but for some reason, its because women are 80% of the workforce.

forget that being a qualified Nurse and you dont get much more..

[This time]

If caring or nursing were predominantly male jobs then they would be better paid. Society doesn't value what is seen as women's work hence the low pay for these jobs.

[Automotive Engineer]

Here we go again, there is no gender pay gap for the same job.

But the BBC today on the News at 1 were happy to report that there is a10% pay gap on average between men and women.

That means, they say, women are £100 A WEEK worse off.

now, for £100 to be 10%, men must, on average be on £1000 a week.

In a country where the average wage is less than £500 a week.

Radio was bleating on about low pay for care workers...yes it is low paid, but for some reason, its because women are 80% of the workforce.

forget that being a qualified Nurse and you dont get much more..

Thank you for a reasonable comment, I was going to loose my sanity after seeing all the headlines.

The pay gap originated from poor research as it throws in all men vs all women. In order to measure wage, you have to account for the same roles+experience+commission bonus for performance+age seniority etc etc etc

If you put a nail artist vs an engineer, who is going to be paid more?

If women where truly cheaper for the employer to hire, in this botom-line dog eat dog profit environment, women would have displaced men from the workforce, as Mr.Business CEO want's to cut overheads for profit maximisation.

Women have the maternity perk which is paid by ALL of us, as we have to subsidise. I wonder if that is taken into account for the wage gap calculations.

[This time]

Thank you for a reasonable comment, I was going to loose my sanity after seeing all the headlines.

The pay gap originated from poor research as it throws in all men vs all women. In order to measure wage, you have to account for the same roles+experience+commission bonus for performance+age seniority etc etc etc

If you put a nail artist vs an engineer, who is going to be paid more?

If women where truly cheaper for the employer to hire, in this botom-line dog eat dog profit environment, women would have displaced men from the workforce, as Mr.Business CEO want's to cut overheads for profit maximisation.

Women have the maternity perk which is paid by ALL of us, as we have to subsidise. I wonder if that is taken into account for the wage gap calculations.

You're completely forgetting that part of the problem is that men are far more likely to have the well paying jobs than women. There are societal reasons why women are more likely to work in a nail bar than be an engineer. We all know why employers don't hire women and why women tend to have less experience in the work place than men.

[winkie]

If men and women work the same hours doing the same job consistently......they should be paid the same.

Consistently is the key word.........take a few years break and you lose a few years pay rises and experience.......all things being equal both men and women should be paid the same.

[Oliver Sutton]

The reason is women are shit at doing proper jobs.

[winkie]

The reason is women are shit at doing proper jobs.

what did your last slave die of?.......there are good working men, the same as there are good working women.....the same as there are shit working both men and women......sex of a person has nothing to do with how good someone is doing their job.

[Maximus Skepticus]

If caring or nursing were predominantly male jobs then they would be better paid. Society doesn't value what is seen as women's work hence the low pay for these jobs.

hmmm don't think so. I reckon you're getting causation and association mixed up. Society doesn't value many jobs regardless of gender, and from my limited knowledge I believe pay scales are the same on any public sector position for either male or female right? I think Switzerland is one of teh few countries who actively pay females less for the same role.

So you may have mistakenly confused low paying jobs that predominantly women prefer to fill for whatever reason...job stability/ satisfaction etc. My credentials are in life sciences which was once predominantly male orientated, now very much female...and the men left most likely because it wasn't paying enough or were favourably promoted due to experience. Males are less risk adverse and 'seem' to earn more compared to females, overall. But I'm sure it balances out closer to the top, as usual.

[thewig]

The reason is women are shit at doing proper jobs.

Pregnant and barefoot in the kitchen, yeehah!!!

[Automotive Engineer]

And another thing. Something that has escaped most people, women seldom demand pay rises, this I know from experience.

My missus was on the same wage for three years, whilst mine raised in progressively larger steps. She works very hard to deliver her employers targets and was by far one of the better employees of the company.

We work in different industries, so our starting salaries where very different. She chose her career willingly as I chose mine willingly, however I found it odd that her career wasn't earning her more money with seniority, so I started thinking. I have changed jobs three times. Whenever I find the remuneration unsatisfactory I request a raise, and if I don't get it I put my CV out. This has never failed me.

I had a sit down with the missus, to talk about her getting more money. (She was slightly inclined to believe her being a female was stopping her from getting a raise.)

The conversation went a bit like this:

Me: How come you are still on x£'s p.a?

Missus: The company doesn't have that much money, most people get paid the same for the grade/position I am in. How can I ask for x+y £ p.a when evryone else earns x£ p.a?

Me: Well, you ask the boss for a sit down at the end of the day. A 1 on 1.

Missus: I can't do that.

Me: Why not.

Missus: Because.

Me: Because what

Missus: Because what I'm I going to say?

Me: Well, you could begin by something along the lines of I wanted to discuss with you my current wage and the work and projects I have done during z years...etc or something along those lines.

Missus: We have end of year reviews for pay rises.

Me: So what, those reviews are HR mandatory checks, nothing stops you from discussing wages with your boss during the rest of the year.

Missus: They won't give me a raise.

Me: look for another job.

Missus: I don't wan't to. In abcd company, it's like a family I have friends there. I learn a lot.

Me: You can make friends in another company and continue in touch with your old colleagues.

Missus: I don't wan't to.

This is usually how the conversation ends. These conversations made me realise that women are not really in the workforce for money. Inexperience junior female workers are less demanding for remuneration out of shyness, they can't negotiate a raise and much less contemplate a move. It may seem pushy, but I genuinely wanted to dive into the female worker psyche in regards to pay and career. Money is not a motivator for women as is comfort, safety and a familiar setting or routine.

I also talked to her about changing careers as my industry pays higher and big corporate is keen on pushing female STEM to look good in its gender balance reports.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like feminists but I do wan't the missus to earn more money as it helps us move up in the world. (Instead of me picking the slack) But she doesn't wan't risk.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Automotive Engineer

[Sour Mash]

If men and women work the same hours doing the same job consistently......they should be paid the same.

Consistently is the key word.........take a few years break and you lose a few years pay rises and experience.......all things being equal both men and women should be paid the same.

In the private sector at least, in many jobs you are paid according to how well you can negotiate when you are offered the job.

In my current job, I played hardball when joining (was in a favourable position so I used that to push for the best pay and conditions) and got myself a good deal, compares extremely favourably to the typical salary for that position.

But in a previous job I completely faffed the negotiating at the start (I had stupidly put myself in an unfavourable position at the time though, which didn't help) and ended up with rubbish pay compared to the going rate. I also stayed in that position for only a little over a year and basically left because my salary position was so disadvantageous to me in the long term. Lesson learned - that was the reason why I played hardball on the next two jobs, including the current one.

Women however, are less likely to be as aggressive or demanding as men so they generally don't get paid as well when there is negotiating involved in the initial salary offer. Though I suppose you could argue that when women are more demanding in the negotiating process, that characteristic might be looked at unfavourably vs a man doing the same because it's atypical behaviour..

The thing is, in typical jobs with a big employer, your initial salary really is the base for all future pay rises or bonuses. You simply must push for the best possible deal when you are first hired - It's very hard to get a good rise even shifting jobs internally, unless you are at management level of course.

[Bloo Loo]

I was shocked at the £100 per week claim...misleading is not the word for it...

In my last job in the public sector, you entered your job at scale and worked your way up the scale...man/woman/trans.There is no negotiation to be done.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Bloo Loo

[ccc]

Saw this morning on the BBC and does my head in. Been mentioned a bit above but there are basic reasons for the 'pay gap' for the median full time wage.

(1) Women take many more long career breaks

(2) Women go for less promotions and apply for less jobs

(3) Women ask for less pay rises

Considering the above - if eveything were 'equal' it would be the men being ******ed over. Probably exactly what many pressure groups would like to see. As per the grand slam tennis prize money. Its a joke.

The more important thing - that is 99.9% NEVER mentioned on these articles - is that for part time work - WOMEN are paid on average more than men.

Why are the equality commission not shouting about that from the rooftops ? I think we all know. Turkeys dont vote for Christmas.

Edited February 12, 2016 by ccc

[Bloo Loo]

You're completely forgetting that part of the problem is that men are far more likely to have the well paying jobs than women. There are societal reasons why women are more likely to work in a nail bar than be an engineer. We all know why employers don't hire women and why women tend to have less experience in the work place than men.

get out of here!....the public sector is 80% female in the nice shiny office blocks...

[winkie]

I suppose you know when on a good equivalent deal.....when told, do not discuss this with anyone........else they will all want it.

[EUBanana]

If caring or nursing were predominantly male jobs then they would be better paid. Society doesn't value what is seen as women's work hence the low pay for these jobs.

Pay is based on resources and money not on what society values.

Unskilled work that doesn't have rich customers -> low paid.

[winkie]

In the private sector at least, in many jobs you are paid according to how well you can negotiate when you are offered the job.

In my current job, I played hardball when joining (was in a favourable position so I used that to push for the best pay and conditions) and got myself a good deal, compares extremely favourably to the typical salary for that position.

But in a previous job I completely faffed the negotiating at the start (I had stupidly put myself in an unfavourable position at the time though, which didn't help) and ended up with rubbish pay compared to the going rate. I also stayed in that position for only a little over a year and basically left because my salary position was so disadvantageous to me in the long term. Lesson learned - that was the reason why I played hardball on the next two jobs, including the current one.

Women however, are less likely to be as aggressive or demanding as men so they generally don't get paid as well when there is negotiating involved in the initial salary offer. Though I suppose you could argue that when women are more demanding in the negotiating process, that characteristic might be looked at unfavourably vs a man doing the same because it's atypical behaviour..

The thing is, in typical jobs with a big employer, your initial salary really is the base for all future pay rises or bonuses. You simply must push for the best possible deal when you are first hired - It's very hard to get a good rise even shifting jobs internally, unless you are at management level of course.

Not always the case but often women have to juggle both home and work commitments, even more so if they are a single mum.....men more often can put their 110% into their job and when negotiating their salary will push that point, my life is my job, will sleep in the office if necessary.........women will sometimes if having children require to rush off, require more flexible working to suit school runs and child sickness, etc......a very difficult balancing act....not for the faint-hearted....juggling lots of balls in the air......so are therefore sometimes prepared to forgo some extra money for extra flexibility and time, money is not everything always.......but things do get better and circumstances do improve......forever changing......fall-back and catch-up times.

Edited February 12, 2016 by winkie

[Bloo Loo]

Not always the case but often women have to juggle both home and work commitments, even more so if they are a single mum.....men more often can put their 110% into their job and when negotiating their salary with push that point, my life is my job, will sleep in the office if necessary.........women will sometimes if having children require to rush off, require more flexible working to suit school runs and child sickness, etc......a very difficult balancing act....not for the faint-hearted....juggling lots of balls in the air......so are therefore sometimes prepared to forgo some extra money for extra flexibility and time, money is not everything always.......but things do get better and circumstances do improve......forever changing......fall-back and catch-up times.

yeah, but those single mums could be £100 per week better off if they get behind the campaign.

[winkie]

yeah, but those single mums could be £100 per week better off if they get behind the campaign.

....but the blokes will say.....she is getting paid the same as me but gets this time off and that time off and comes in late etc, etc....it is the blokes who get paid the same as the working mums who feel disadvantaged, and hard done by...tell them you get paid less, makes them feel slightly better.....

[Democorruptcy]

If all women stopped signing joint income mortgages and they went back to 3x main income, they would have lots of extra disposable income and not need a pay rise that will go to a banker.

[winkie]

If all women stopped signing joint income mortgages and they went back to 3x main income, they would have lots of extra disposable income and not need a pay rise that will go to a banker.

yeah.....single wage should buy basic home in the area close to where you work.....always has done.....what sex you happen to be doesn't come into it.

[Errol]

If men and women work the same hours doing the same job consistently......they should be paid the same.

What if one of them has more skill, provides more benefit to the firm etc etc? Surely he/she is worth more?

[This time]

hmmm don't think so. I reckon you're getting causation and association mixed up. Society doesn't value many jobs regardless of gender, and from my limited knowledge I believe pay scales are the same on any public sector position for either male or female right? I think Switzerland is one of teh few countries who actively pay females less for the same role.

So you may have mistakenly confused low paying jobs that predominantly women prefer to fill for whatever reason...job stability/ satisfaction etc. My credentials are in life sciences which was once predominantly male orientated, now very much female...and the men left most likely because it wasn't paying enough or were favourably promoted due to experience. Males are less risk adverse and 'seem' to earn more compared to females, overall. But I'm sure it balances out closer to the top, as usual.

The most similar job I can think of in terms of skill level, how poorly society values it as long as it gets done and that is predominantly male is refuse collector;. They make a hell of a lot more than carers.

[This time]

And another thing. Something that has escaped most people, women seldom demand pay rises, this I know from experience.

My missus was on the same wage for three years, whilst mine raised in progressively larger steps. She works very hard to deliver her employers targets and was by far one of the better employees of the company.

We work in different industries, so our starting salaries where very different. She chose her career willingly as I chose mine willingly, however I found it odd that her career wasn't earning her more money with seniority, so I started thinking. I have changed jobs three times. Whenever I find the remuneration unsatisfactory I request a raise, and if I don't get it I put my CV out. This has never failed me.

I had a sit down with the missus, to talk about her getting more money. (She was slightly inclined to believe her being a female was stopping her from getting a raise.)

The conversation went a bit like this:

Me: How come you are still on x£'s p.a?

Missus: The company doesn't have that much money, most people get paid the same for the grade/position I am in. How can I ask for x+y £ p.a when evryone else earns x£ p.a?

Me: Well, you ask the boss for a sit down at the end of the day. A 1 on 1.

Missus: I can't do that.

Me: Why not.

Missus: Because.

Me: Because what

Missus: Because what I'm I going to say?

Me: Well, you could begin by something along the lines of I wanted to discuss with you my current wage and the work and projects I have done during z years...etc or something along those lines.

Missus: We have end of year reviews for pay rises.

Me: So what, those reviews are HR mandatory checks, nothing stops you from discussing wages with your boss during the rest of the year.

Missus: They won't give me a raise.

Me: look for another job.

Missus: I don't wan't to. In abcd company, it's like a family I have friends there. I learn a lot.

Me: You can make friends in another company and continue in touch with your old colleagues.

Missus: I don't wan't to.

This is usually how the conversation ends. These conversations made me realise that women are not really in the workforce for money. Inexperience junior female workers are less demanding for remuneration out of shyness, they can't negotiate a raise and much less contemplate a move. It may seem pushy, but I genuinely wanted to dive into the female worker psyche in regards to pay and career. Money is not a motivator for women as is comfort, safety and a familiar setting or routine.

I also talked to her about changing careers as my industry pays higher and big corporate is keen on pushing female STEM to look good in its gender balance reports.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like feminists but I do wan't the missus to earn more money as it helps us move up in the world. (Instead of me picking the slack) But she doesn't wan't risk.

What you're seeing there is female socialisation. Boys and girls are treated differently from birth which leads to women being a lot more concerned with being liked than men are. Society also looks on certain behaviours differently depending on the sex of the person. Men being assertive is seen as a good thing but if a woman does the same thing then she's obstructive, a domineering woman would be seen as a good leader if she were male etc.

[winkie]

What if one of them has more skill, provides more benefit to the firm etc etc? Surely he/she is worth more?

Sure they are....therefore they are not doing the same job, one is more valuable.......there is and never has been black and white......but very often it works the other way the longstanding stable employee with miles of talent, experience, aptitude, work ethic and knowledge gets paid less than the.....I passed **AA plus this or that but have no common sense and like a good drink at the weekend new bod....because they think they are worth it.....but only a little time will prove they are not.