Eddie_George Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I've heard a few mentions of a Debt Jubilee on Twidder these past few days. Any ideas on what form this could take? People's QE or something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amiinsane Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Knowing my luck probably writing off the mortgage debt of the hugely imprudent to show that they've make a smart choice and their 'hard graft' has paid off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M21er Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I've heard a few mentions of a Debt Jubilee on Twidder these past few days. Any ideas on what form this could take? People's QE or something else? ShinDigger's thread from July 2011 discusses possibility of a Debt Jubilee - as ever HPC is years ahead of everyone else! http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/166593-small-mortgage-as-debt-jubilee-hedge/page-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie_George Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 ShinDigger's thread from July 2011 discusses possibility of a Debt Jubilee - as ever HPC is years ahead of everyone else! http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/166593-small-mortgage-as-debt-jubilee-hedge/page-1 Nice one. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 For me the idea of a debt jubilee will fail, not because it makes mathematical sense, but because of human behaviour. Basically people who save will save and people who spend will spend. Trying to co-erce people into new behavioural patterns is hard work. The only way to make a debt jubilee effective at reducing the debt burden IMO is to do it in conjunction with some sort of debt limitation. For example if you say to someone, here is £x to pay off your debt, they will say thanks and take out another £x pounds of debt. The only way to gain some sort of benefit to the system is to say here's £x to pay off your debt, and btw, you can't take out another £x of debt. Debt jubilees have been going on for a long time anyway at an institution level. I know someone during the credit crunch who had an offer from their bank to pay off their loan at much reduced cost. This sort of stuff goes on all the time. I don't see how CB's can order a debt jubilee any more that they can specify an interest rate. Cb's specify a base rate and then the banks choose how much to add on top of that to determine the actual rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shindigger Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I'm off to the Halifax...... Shin Digger... you're our kind of person......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malk Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 When Steve Keen talks about a debt jubilee he always states that it should be a helicopter money handout to everyone with a caveat that in the first instance it has to be used to pay off any debt. Solves the fairness problem that would cripple any government that only gives money to the indebted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shindigger Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 When Steve Keen talks about a debt jubilee he always states that it should be a helicopter money handout to everyone with a caveat that in the first instance it has to be used to pay off any debt. Solves the fairness problem that would cripple any government that only gives money to the indebted. And as someone said on another thread,if they helicoptered some cash my way, it would be spent within the week. On a car and some Sovs probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckmojo Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 For example if you say to someone, here is £x to pay off your debt, they will say thanks and take out another £x pounds of debt. The only way to gain some sort of benefit to the system is to say here's £x to pay off your debt, and btw, you can't take out another £x of debt. this. And it has to be generational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Debt Jubilee would be the last straw for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 When Steve Keen talks about a debt jubilee he always states that it should be a helicopter money handout to everyone with a caveat that in the first instance it has to be used to pay off any debt. Solves the fairness problem that would cripple any government that only gives money to the indebted. There are some crazy people in the world Take back the assets, sell them off at market rate. Bankrupt the bankrupts and publicly hang the fraudsters so they don't do it again. Extreme but sensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckmojo Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 And as someone said on another thread,if they helicoptered some cash my way, it would be spent within the week. On a car and some Sovs probably. ABsolutely, I will be going on Gibson.com and get the best of the best of the last rosewood classics. Or stuff that does not depreciate/and you can enjoy. It depends on how much. Since I have no debt: 20 grand? 2 Gibsons, some quality prints/art that I personally like, 30 grand? the above plus a few cases of top notch Barolo and the best quality tools money can buy (Snap-on or the like) 50 grand? the above and a little bit of wine land in my home village in north Italy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shindigger Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 ABsolutely, I will be going on Gibson.com and get the best of the best of the last rosewood classics. Or stuff that does not depreciate/and you can enjoy. It depends on how much. Since I have no debt: 20 grand? 2 Gibsons, some quality prints/art that I personally like, 30 grand? the above plus a few cases of top notch Barolo and the best quality tools money can buy (Snap-on or the like) 50 grand? the above and a little bit of wine land in my home village in north Italy. That's a great call. Brazilian Rosewood Martins also hove in to view. I have a chum in the jewellery /collectibles trade, and he's been told that UK based Russians are even buying cars as assets now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shindigger Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) If I was excluded from some helicopter money I'd just smash up some government property to the value of that money. It's only fair! Indeed. Though this wont be a thing until 18 months from the next election. It could well be on the table then. And i really couldn't guess who will be offering it. Jezza or George, take your pick. Edited February 9, 2016 by shindigger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC1 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I'm sure this has been covered by the great HPC hive mind but I must have missed it... What's to stop rampant overnight inflation following something like a People's QE/helicopter money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crouch Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Debt Jubilee would be the last straw for me. One of the main problems with a debt jubilee is that if debtors were seen to be "getting away with it" the interest rates on future debt would be sky high; investors would likely restrict credit which would deal a death blow to the economic system anyway. Let's face it there is huge public resistance to this anyway and, in a sense, it enshrines fecklessness and even the idiots in charge may be reluctant to let this tiger out of the bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC1 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Yes, can't see this happening for a long time yet, and it would be a desperate last resort after all else had been tried and failed (or are we nearer to this than I think?!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgul Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Indeed. Though this wont be a thing until 18 months from the next election. It could well be on the table then. And i really couldn't guess who will be offering it. Jezza or George, take your pick. Indeed. I'd add that it couldn't be a 'writing off of debt' as that would punish the banks, and they don't want that. So I'd go with people's QE from labour (everyone gets some cash) vs tax breaks from conservatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluteroop Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Helicopter money if it ever happens, or peoples QE, signals "leave the country" in big red capital letters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Helicopter money if it ever happens, or peoples QE, signals "leave the country" in big red capital letters Yes, that money is not free. All it would do is make the problems much worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 The only people wanting debt forgiveness are the feckers in debt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC1 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Yes, but politics is all about pandering to the majority, and taking the easier option every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Yes, can't see this happening for a long time yet, and it would be a desperate last resort after all else had been tried and failed (or are we nearer to this than I think?!) What's the difference between £100 in helicopter money and £100 tax cut ? Government is far more likely imo to use "helicopter" money to target areas of interest which correspond to their VIs. So you could argue help to buy, or car scrappage is the same as helicopter money. The result of helicopter money is that it will all end up somewhere looking for return, when there isn't enough return (traditionally) for the money that's there at the moment. See septicpusses nirp thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 There was a jubilee, the banks are still here aren't they? sure as eggs is eggs, we the people won't see any free money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgul Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 What's the difference between £100 in helicopter money and £100 tax cut ? Nothing really, but as always it depends how you do it. eg, tax relief on interest payments only applies to people in debt, so would be the same as helicopter money only to those in debt. But it does look different to the voters - helicopter money wouldn't be so palatable for tory voters, but reintroduction of miras might be a 'reasonable stimulus'... Government is far more likely imo to use "helicopter" money to target areas of interest which correspond to their VIs. So you could argue help to buy, or car scrappage is the same as helicopter money. I do agree with this - so the question isn't so much about 'will they stimulate' but how - HTB is definitely a stimulus, but it only impacts on people currently undertaking a transaction - it is only a small % of the population (although it does support asset prices for a larger %). People's QE, on the other hand, would be quite universal. They are probably looking for a stimulus which would both support prices and increase economic activity. What about reducing vat to 5% on all house renovation work? Put primary household into a pension wrapper? etc etc. These are all much more likely than outright gifts of money - that is not so likely to be seen (without a catastrophe to bring it about). The result of helicopter money is that it will all end up somewhere looking for return, when there isn't enough return (traditionally) for the money that's there at the moment. Quite - inflating assets, etc. Which is what they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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